RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE

RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (Full Version)

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LATEXBABY64 -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/30/2007 7:09:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan However, like everyone else that walks this Earth, I am flawed! Many of you seem to think you aren't! I don't think anyone here has claimed to be perfect. But for me, I believe the difference is between working to overcome my flaws and welcoming them. In the end, I've only my own definition of integrity to live up to. I think people just do not get the meaning.. I think that is it... they can read a book about how to do something but they miss the meaning it is like food with out flavor or a well with out water just empty..they shut off their emotional and mental thoughts.. I like being on the good side of things maybe cause i see what damage cheating does emotional mentally and other ways... not to mention kids that get hurt from divorce.. it effects everyone in someway.. Oh Look another bitter person to spread more negitive engergy.. i just do not think alot of people get the meaning of things or they just do not care.. a lot of empathy goes a long way.. i guess its the difference between a strong willed mind and a week one.. i would rather be something of value even to my self

LadyPact -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/30/2007 7:21:49 PM)
Since your comment appeared directly under Mine, I thought I'd give it a go..... quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan Well, well, well... What an interesting discussion! I'm so glad I found it! Let me add my two cents, please. First, I'm married. My profile says I'm married, right up front! I'm not pretending to be single. Second, I'm new to this BDSM scene (a beginner, actually). If I take the plunge, so to speak, it won't be with my wife or with her knowledge. So, I would be cheating on her. I can't deny that, and I'm not proud of it, either. So in other words, by your own definition, and many definitions of others, you would be cheating. Ok. Established. quote: Does that make me a person who lacks "honesty" and "integrity" such that others in this scene (this "lifestyle") should shun me? Oh, please...! To be very blunt about it, yes, in fact, some will. Ask the thousands of other married people who are in your situation, and find it to be a huge barrier. quote: In the best of all possible worlds, married people would not cheat on their spouses. But, in the best of all possible worlds, we wouldn't be at war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I could go on, but I think you understand my point. No, on this, I can't say that I do. It's like comparing apples to oranges, the only commonality is that they are both fruits, and the two you are mixing are both negative situations in the world. quote: I am absolutely astonished at the judgmental comments and the pompous moralizing I've read in this thread (and I haven't even finished reading all of them)! According to several of the posts, married people who have sex outside of their marriages "lack integrity." I'm going to botch this I'm sure, but it's an old phrase about intergrity. It goes something like.... integrity isn't something you have 90% of the time or even 95% of the time..... you either have it or you don't. quote: They're "liars," "untrustworthy," and "selfish slobs." They "defile the whole meaning of D/s," which--apparently to a greater extent than any other type of human relationship--is "about honesty and trust." Since a BDSM relationship depends on such a high level of honesty, and a person who cheats on his or her spouse is (by definition it seems) dishonest, it follows that a person who cheats on his or her spouse cannot be trusted in a BDSM relationship. With WIITWD, I would hope to all heights that people who do engage only with others that they feel are trustworthy. I'll be the first person to admit that if someone doesn't feel the other is trustworthy, it's probably not a good idea. Or, would you suggest that it would be a good idea to be tied up, or a hundred other activities, by someone who's trust you doubted. quote: Really? Yes, really. (Ok. That one was just for fun on My part) quote: Well, excuse me!!! People in this "lifestyle" must be the salt of the earth! This must be the greatest collection of true, honest, morally upright individuals outside of the Vatican! Some are. In fact, some of them are the best people I've ever met. quote: Are you??? Probably not. quote: From what I've seen, lots of you have profiles without pictures. How honest and open is that??? Do your parents, friends, co-workers, and neighbors know that you're a dominant, a submissive, a switch, or whatever? No? You mean, you're hiding such a large part of yourselves from others? Well, how open and honest is that? In order..... Yes, it's My pic (all of them). Parents, friends, co-workers, neighbors..... Yes, yes, yes, and some (I'm not that sociable with My neighbors. quote: Do you speed? Have you ever broken the law? Have you ever shoplifted? Have you ever taken anything home from the office without the boss knowing or giving you permission? Have you ever lied on your tax return (taken a deduction you weren't entitled to or failed to report ALL of your income)? If you did, being persons of such grand integrity, I presume you immediately ran right to the police station and turned yourselves in! If you didn't, maybe you need to re-think just how much "integrity" you really have! Again, in order.... Speed, yes. Guess who put the radar detector in My car because he knows I do it. Bingo.... My husband. Break the law? The aforementioned speeding. (Oh, btw, paid the ticket, too, so was ready to admit I was guilty.) As to the rest..... No, no, no, and no. quote: Have you EVER lied to your spouse, your significant other, your friend, or even to a stranger? Have you ever, as Jimmy Carter said, lusted in your heart for someone other than your spouse? Just so you know, I thought this would be funny when I started, but it's becoming a chore. No, no, yes, and yes. However, I don't put friends and strangers in the same catagory. I don't have the same level of commitment to strangers as I do to My husband. Again, apples and oranges. quote: If you have NEVER done ANY of these things, then MAYBE you are in a position to condemn others for THEIR moral failings (and your application for sainthood is in the mail!). Unless the position of saint of sadism becomes available, I wouldn't want it, nor would I deserve it. (That's a joke.) I just do the best I can with what I've got. Some honesty, integrity, and some trustworthiness mixed in. quote: If NOT, then, PLEASE, save your moralizing! I have thought that the people in this "lifestyle," who by-and-large have been pushed underground by the condemnatory societal judgments that have been heaped on this "lifestyle" and its adherents by the vanilla world, would be less judgmental of others than the posts I have read here indicate. Actually, some of Us in the lifestyle have become, if anything, more judgemental. It goes back to that whole, put your life in someone else's hands thing that I mentioned before. These are whole different issues besides mkiyk and bdsm vrs vanilla. quote: Apparently I was wrong... Believe it or not, although I have had sex outside of my marriage, and may again, I still consider myself to be, by and large, a person of honesty and integrity. However, like everyone else that walks this Earth, I am flawed! Many of you seem to think you aren't! Think again!!! I've read this thread a couple of times now. No where in it did anyone say they weren't flawed, couldn't later become flawed, or anything of that nature. I've seen people state their positions on where they find themselves personally. I've even seen some, like you, who aren't especially proud of the things they've done in the past, or they are doing now. I've also seen some who have said that, above all, the vows they have made to another are more important than those activities that are sexual, bdsm in nature, and a few other things. Btw, welcome to the boards.

RRafe -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/30/2007 7:30:50 PM)
Fast reply-if it feels dishonest-it probably is. No matter how one thickly tries to sugar coat it-a turd always stinks.[&:]

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/30/2007 8:30:54 PM)
why would i want to walk in someone else shoes. if their shoes has holes and ragged looking would make my feet hurt lol but honestly we are given our own set of choices... it is what you do with those choices that make you who you are.... even given those same set of choices would we make that same choice.. that's a variable of life. you never know ..we only know our selves.. well some of us do lol

LightHeartedMaam -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/30/2007 8:31:24 PM)
Blaakmaan: Well, welcome to the open-minded, knee-jerk reactions of the walking wounded. If you figure the majority of this board are divorcees that found this “life style” and have the attitude “ah HA! Cut and dried rules where I can find a place and be certain that my relationship will finally be one the way I want it.” A lifestyle where is supposedly better to tell someone “Honey, I’m sorry you can’t get it up anymore, but I’m going to seek a cock to take care of me. But not to worry, I’ll be back in time to change your colostomy bag. I’ll tell you all about it when I do.”, then to discreetly go about your business.

venusdiva429 -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/31/2007 12:54:47 AM)
I'm unmarried. Never been married. Look, cheating is cheating. If you're living day-to-day and looking someone in the face while indulging in something sexual, like BDSM, when you've made vows of monogamy and fidelity, you're lying. You are living a lie. That's it. No fudging. That's it. This lie could cost you everything. It's not a little thing, it's something important. Now, if you're lucky enough to actually have an open marriage where you can do things in the outside world, that's great. Good for you. If you're cheating, then you're cheating. Plus, I love the fact that no-one has brought up the possibility of taking diseases and stuff back to their unsuspecting partners. It's all fun and games till somone gets a blister where there shouldn't be one...and that someone's not you. All it takes is a kiss on the lips. We're not mindless animals. If you can't keep your hormones under control, or exercise them in ways that are mutually agreeable to all parties involved, than figure something out. Yes, that may mean that you can't have your 95% cake and eat it, too. Give the other person the option of being free and finding someone who wants them, 100%.

whipped -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/31/2007 5:54:25 AM)
I'll be brave and stick my hand up and say that I am married and am looking. I know, I'm a selfish, shocking male. All I can say is that I have discussed my interests with my dear wife and although she has tried to enjoy them with me, she has said that it just doesn't work. And D/s with a partner who's heart is not in to it just doesn't work. Therefore I look elsewhere to have those interests met (although as yet, because I'm married, no one wants to touch, and I can understand) but I do not ever hide the fact that I am married because I understand the need for truth, honesty and respect in a D/s relationship. In an ideal world, my wife would be happy to fulfill my interests, but she is not, but I do not see D/s as the make and break of our relationship, we have plenty more going for us than that, and so that is why we remain together. I understand the obvious view of married men that play away, but as some people have already posted, it's not quite as black and white as that.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/31/2007 6:22:29 AM)
but you see you made a commitment.. you made your life.. it is not like a car you can take back cause you did not like it.. you need to stand by your file she may say those things.. but deep inside she will look for divorce.. trust me some people hide things never tell you things till it is too late

TreasureKY -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/31/2007 7:57:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whipped ... All I can say is that I have discussed my interests with my dear wife and although she has tried to enjoy them with me, she has said that it just doesn't work. And D/s with a partner who's heart is not in to it just doesn't work. Therefore I look elsewhere to have those interests met (although as yet, because I'm married, no one wants to touch, and I can understand) but I do not ever hide the fact that I am married because I understand the need for truth, honesty and respect in a D/s relationship. In an ideal world, my wife would be happy to fulfill my interests, but she is not, but I do not see D/s as the make and break of our relationship, we have plenty more going for us than that, and so that is why we remain together. I understand the obvious view of married men that play away, but as some people have already posted, it's not quite as black and white as that. Did you or did you not promise fidelity to your wife when you married her? Is your interest in D/s more important to you than your promise? You say you never hide the fact that you are married, but do you hide the fact that you are seeking someone else from your wife? You say you understand the need for truth, honesty and respect in a D/s relationship, but are you practicing that in your marriage? You are either here seeking with your wife's full knowledge (and ideally her blessing), or you are sneaking around, lying and breaking your marriage vows. Seems pretty black and white to me.

Blaakmaan -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/31/2007 10:43:14 AM)
Very interesting chat indeed! I still maintain that there has been an awful lot of moralizing here, coming from people that I have no reason to believe are any more moral than anybody else (no offense to anyone here, since I do not know any of you). I am sure that all of those who have seen fit to judge others here live their own lives in such a manner that they would have absolutely no problem with opening their own lives up to public scrutiny! Well, good for you! Although some might find this to be hypocitical of me, these are my (probably) final thoughts: Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not]. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. [John, Chapter 8] 1 Judge not, that you may not be judged, 2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? 4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. [Matthew, Chapter 7]

Grlwithboy -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/31/2007 10:47:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: whipped ... All I can say is that I have discussed my interests with my dear wife and although she has tried to enjoy them with me, she has said that it just doesn't work. And D/s with a partner who's heart is not in to it just doesn't work. Therefore I look elsewhere to have those interests met (although as yet, because I'm married, no one wants to touch, and I can understand) but I do not ever hide the fact that I am married because I understand the need for truth, honesty and respect in a D/s relationship. In an ideal world, my wife would be happy to fulfill my interests, but she is not, but I do not see D/s as the make and break of our relationship, we have plenty more going for us than that, and so that is why we remain together. I understand the obvious view of married men that play away, but as some people have already posted, it's not quite as black and white as that. Did you or did you not promise fidelity to your wife when you married her? Is your interest in D/s more important to you than your promise? You say you never hide the fact that you are married, but do you hide the fact that you are seeking someone else from your wife? You say you understand the need for truth, honesty and respect in a D/s relationship, but are you practicing that in your marriage? You are either here seeking with your wife's full knowledge (and ideally her blessing), or you are sneaking around, lying and breaking your marriage vows. Seems pretty black and white to me. Isn't it great that you don't have to fuck him? And isn't it great that making people into pariahs is even less incentive for them to be honest in ANY direction about the fact that they're married. I think it would be better if he started hiding it because everyone can't resist throwing stones. Jesus, no one in this community has ever heard of harm reduction. If these people were married and GAY you'd be telling them to cut off their dicks or go to therpists who can change them.

TreasureKY -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/31/2007 12:52:44 PM)
Blaakmaan, If you wish to defend yourself with the Bible, you really should make sure you understand what it says. Do you really believe that the Bible condemns all judging? Am I not to correct my child who is caught lying? Should I turn a blind eye to my neighbor who sexually abuses his son because it is his business and I shouldn't judge him? Should I not seek condemnation of a murderer because I am not without any sin myself? If you believe that is the case, then you should be ashamed of yourself for being so judgmental as to judge all here as being guilty of judging. [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy And isn't it great that making people into pariahs is even less incentive for them to be honest in ANY direction about the fact that they're married. I think it would be better if he started hiding it because everyone can't resist throwing stones. Jesus, no one in this community has ever heard of harm reduction. If these people were married and GAY you'd be telling them to cut off their dicks or go to therpists who can change them. 1. I doubt, as a grown man, that whipped needs to be coddled. 2. I don't accept things simply out of fear that they could be worse. 3. I've not made whipped or anyone else into a pariah or anything else. I've not condemned him, merely asked questions and given my opinion. I am not responsible for how he answers those questions (if he does at all) or what he thinks of my opinion (if he cares in the least). 4. I don't believe harm reduction was necessarily intended to be applicable to marital infidelity. I also doubt that the spouses of cheating individuals would agree that the harm would be lessened if we facilitate it. 5. I don't know where you got the ridiculous notion that someone who expresses the opinion that deceiving their spouse is wrong must also believe homosexuality is wrong. This appears to be a poor attempt at supporting your position by introducing a straw man.

LadyPact -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (8/31/2007 2:02:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan Very interesting chat indeed! I still maintain that there has been an awful lot of moralizing here, coming from people that I have no reason to believe are any more moral than anybody else (no offense to anyone here, since I do not know any of you). I am sure that all of those who have seen fit to judge others here live their own lives in such a manner that they would have absolutely no problem with opening their own lives up to public scrutiny! Well, good for you! Although some might find this to be hypocitical of me, these are my (probably) final thoughts: I snipped the part that you didn't author yourself. My question is this: If you are so willing to quote this Book, why are you only taking the except that favors your situation? It seems to Me that there is another section of this Book that doesn't help your case at all. Just a few rules in there. I think they came in a group of Ten. Pretty famous lines actually. From what I hear, a lot of folks base their morals on them. I think you are looking at this thread from a different perspective than I am. From the two posts you have made, both seem to come from a position where you feel you are being judged and have become defensive. On the other hand, here I am, a married Domme with a married submissive, a perfect target for the stones that were mentioned, and yet, I haven't felt a pebble. Have you given any serious thought as to why that might be? Is it possible that the good folks here at CM have only echoed your own thoughts about what is acceptable and what isn't? Does it surprise you in some way that others have read that Book you quoted, and form their own standards?

ApostleOfRoark -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (9/2/2007 9:00:16 PM)
It's amusing to me to see how judgemental so many in the scene truly are. Assuming my motivations or intentions as if they are the christian coalition wing of the bdsm lobby. It's laughable and sad at the same time. Everyone is different. Everyone comes to "this" from a different life track. If you can't see the scene beyond your rigid view of the universe, that's your problem not mine.

Blaakmaan -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (9/2/2007 9:23:36 PM)
ok. i see the conversation continues. that's all to the good. in quoting the Bible, i was simply demonstrating that JUDGING others is not our province. it is God's, if it is anyone's. none of you resemble God to me, so perhaps you should JUDGE NOT! since LadyPact has chosen, twice now, to address me directly, instead of just addressing the topic at hand, i will reply. i know the 10 commandments. i have heard of them. now, i confess that i've broken at least one. however, unless YOU haven't broken ANY, you need not try to judge me. and, even if you HAVEN'T broken ANY (which i can't imagine could possibly be true), i still don't acknowledge that YOU (or anyone else here) have any right to judge me. about ANYTHING. defensive? moi? about what? i, like everybody, don't like to feel attacked. and some of you did attack married people who were on this site. some of you tried to assume a posture of moral superiority that you are not entitled to, and i'm saying so. i'm not so much defensive as i am completely astonished that people on this site, who couldn't stand the judgments of the vanilla world if their interests were out in the broad light of day, have absolutely no qualms about extending the same narrow-minded, judgmental mindset that the vanilla world subjects them to, to others here. i think that is sad beyond description. but i guess everybody needs to feel superior to somebody... now, you can dismiss that as defensiveness from me. OR, you (and now i am speaking to everyone here who believes they are in a position to judge another) can ask yourselves who in the hell put you on God's throne and empowered you, in your infinite wisdom, to judge others?

RRafe -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (9/2/2007 9:37:45 PM)
We single people can all decide for ourselves. Not to enable married people who lie to fuck us. If all of us do that-all of you who cheat are screwed-but not in the way you might like. Nothing judgemental or superior in that-just being good to ourselves. It's the lies that make it icky-get used to it.

phoenixsub999 -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (9/2/2007 10:40:08 PM)
All I can say is that married or not, if you've made a commitment to someone, you need to agree on "the rules". If it is an open relationship, great! If not, then it is a breach of trust. While, we've discussed bringing in a 'sister, in the past, I've made it clear that I would have to be alpha and there is zero tolerance for cheating. Trust lost is almost impossible to regain. To me, if you are unhappy in the relationship, either do your best to work it out or simply just leave and then look, don't lie to me, string me along and waste my time. Then there is the question - what is the definition of cheating? I appreciate beauty of body and mind in man or woman - who doesn't look? However, for me, contacting other subs to initiate a relationship, even if nothing comes of it, especially without mentioning me or without my knowledge is not acceptable as this is the intent to cheat.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (9/2/2007 11:32:35 PM)
just do what you say your going to i'm judge mental.. i am proud of that fact if your going to be stupid then you will be treated as such. if you make a commitment. then you dam well better stick to it. quit griping about things change down the road boo hoo you knew what you were getting into when you married them. Sorry Charlie dats the way it is try thinking of someone else besides your own selfish ass for once

Grrrl6 -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (9/3/2007 1:25:52 AM)
I guess, I feel different. I state that I am married. I do not want to leave my marriage for my own reasons. But I don't think it is fair to say I shouldn't be allowed to participate. If I am upfront & honest & so is the other person I have no issues. People who are in marriages/relationships where their preferences sexual and otherwise are respected have no right to pass judgement on someone else who isn't so lucky. I believe it is up to the people who are involved, liars are a whole other issue.....

RRafe -> RE: MARRIED MEN AND THE SCENE (9/3/2007 1:50:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Grrrl6 I guess, I feel different. I state that I am married. I do not want to leave my marriage for my own reasons. But I don't think it is fair to say I shouldn't be allowed to participate. If I am upfront & honest & so is the other person I have no issues. People who are in marriages/relationships where their preferences sexual and otherwise are respected have no right to pass judgement on someone else who isn't so lucky. I believe it is up to the people who are involved, liars are a whole other issue..... Open marriages are never the issue-it's the drama of the lying that is.

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