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Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 10:13:29 AM   
changeling


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		I am a married submissive who is unsure if my husband is Dominant material. I have been aware of my desire to live the D/s lifestyle for over two years and I know in my heart that it is “who I am” and how I desire to live my life. I am deeply in love with my husband and want nothing more than to live this lifestyle with him as my Dominant.

Yes, I have communicated this with him. He has known about my desires from the onset of my realization. We communicate extremely well and always have. Yet, I feel a concern that this lifestyle may not be what he really desires. In the beginning when I first told him of my desires he seemed very interested and wanted to learn more. However, after four or five months he lost interest in “learning”. He stopped reading/researching. He stopped attempting to live the lifestyle and things just went back to the norm. I confronted him on several different occasions letting him know that I was sad that we had stopped. He would reaffirm that he wanted to continue but then nothing would actually take place. Lots of words and no action. Everyday “life issues” were probably the main excuse for his lack of action.

I am concerned about this lifestyle succeeding between the two of us for two reasons:

One is that we have a very long history together and throughout our relationship (before D/s was discovered) we have gone through many ups and downs in our relationship including lots of power struggles. I would say that my biggest concern is this: Before I discovered D/s and my “true” desires within myself….I was a very domineering (I dare not say Dominant---because well, I wouldn’t consider myself a very good dominant) partner towards my husband. He did not like it, but he did accept it. It became the norm in our relationship. I was miserable and he was miserable and we both disliked each other very much. Like I said, lots of power struggle and conflict there. So, I am worried that this previous dynamic will never be overcome because it is so ingrained in our relationship.

My second concern is that he either may not have the same desire as I do for this lifestyle or he may not be the “type” of Dominant I need. I am strong-willed. I have questioned whether he is Dominant at all and he insists that he has it inside of him but has a difficult time letting it out to me. He is somewhat afraid of my rejection. (does that even make sense? I mean do you Dominants fear rejection?)

So, as you can see, I am confused and in need of some advice. Do you think this kind of relationship is even possible given what I have told you? Do you think my husband is even a Dominant?

It is difficult being the submissive in this relationship and being the one who desires it so much. If I was Dominant I could just charge ahead and guide the path. But, I want him to be the guide and the teacher. I do not want to top from the bottom.

I apologize for the length of this post. However, it would be very difficult to try and explain my situation in one paragraph.

Thank you for any help you can offer. And if you need more clarification I would be happy to offer it.

changeling
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 10:21:08 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I confronted him on several different occasions letting him know that I was sad that we had stopped. He would reaffirm that he wanted to continue but then nothing would actually take place. Lots of words and no action.


You have a tough situation ahead of you, and you have my sympathy. I will tell you this - power exchange between you and your husband will be hard as long as you are interested in power struggle.

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 10:25:40 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: changeling
(does that even make sense? I mean do you Dominants fear rejection?)

LOL horrendously so!
quote:


So, as you can see, I am confused and in need of some advice. Do you think this kind of relationship is even possible given what I have told you?

I DOUBT that a Ds relationship will work with you and your husband because neither of you have the motivation to really change what's been working so far. Let's face it, how would you REALLY react the first time he said no to something you REALLY want?

You've gotten yourself into a bad habit of automatically taking control, as well as trying to passive aggressively use it to get HIM to take control. Even if you get into a relationship with another dom, this habit will have to be broken (it's very common with new subs).

He's gotten into a habit of being comfortable, he's accepted that YOU want things YOUR way. Even here- YOU want him to be the dominant over you. Unfortunately the years you've trained him to acquiesce to your desires have now put you in this place of not knowing what to do!

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I'm saying it would require a huge amount of focus, of desire and actual change of behavior patterns on BOTH sides for it to work. That's pretty unlikely to happen.
quote:


Do you think my husband is even a Dominant?

Can't answer that. On the surface I'd say he could at least be a good top, but you've trained him so much to just do what you want and be passive, it's going to be hard to break out of that even if it's his true orientation.

quote:


Thank you for any help you can offer. And if you need more clarification I would be happy to offer it.
I have to say, from your "do doms feel this" question, my guess is that you yourself are still pretty novice when it comes to the scene at large, though I applaud your years long researching and involvement.

Take your strengths- getting him to do what you want and get them moving. It might feel "weird" to you, but trust me, it's not topping from the bottom. Most submissives are expected to be an asset to the dom and motivate them. So, make a date to a club and drag him along. Use your persuasion and controlling skills to both of your benefit by not letting him sit around.

But beware- he DOES have to take as much an active part in this and do it for himself just as much as YOU have to be willing to change your own bad habits in the long term. It's a process that will take a long time, but it can happen.

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 10:43:40 AM   
changeling


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

You have a tough situation ahead of you, and you have my sympathy. I will tell you this - power exchange between you and your husband will be hard as long as you are interested in power struggle.


Faramir,

To clarify, I am not interested in power struggle (neither is he). It is however, ingrained in our relationship...but I want it to change. I want there to be a power exchange between the two of us not a struggle. I feel as though I have unknowingly set myself up for failure.....hindsight is 20/20...had I known about my "deep desire" to submit and had I known about D/s before our relationship began...obviously I would not have been domineering...or at least I would have been aware that I needed to control myself from being domineering.

Thank you for your sympathy...and advice.

changeling

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 10:54:29 AM   
Isolde


Posts: 213
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Hamilton, Ontario
Status: offline 		EmeraldSlave's response is one you should read at least 3 or 4 times. Take it to heart, she's giving good advice there.

I'm in much the same situation. While my husband speaks with a lot of enthusiasm for our explorations into this lifestyle, when it comes to making the effort to learn and to try new things, he also tends to sit back and let me take the lead there. With him, it's a combination of uncertainty, lack of familiarity, and that he is definately more a now-and-then top than a dominant. It may well be that your husband isn't deeply dominant; he might have dominant tendencies, he might be curious, he might not mesh at all with what you think you want right now. What you both have to do right now is find that happy medium where you're satisfied and he's satisfied. And, often, that isn't going to be what you thought you'd be happy with originally.

It's difficult to break down and rebuild a dynamic that's been in place for years. The best advice I've been given was that I should remind myself that a life we've lived for seven years isn't going to be changed in seven days, or seven weeks, or seven months... old habits are the hardest to break, right?

That said, it bears repeating: it's going to take effort from both of you. Find out why he's saying one thing and doing another. You say you're good at communicating together but it sounds as if there's something he isn't telling you. Could it be he doesn't want to disappoint you? That he's worried about what might happen if he doesn't live up to your expectations? Is he balking under real or imagined pressure? My husband put everything on hold after I gave him a bunch of literature to read and then backed off completely. His reason was that he saw that as my being passive aggressive, that I was putting him to the test by not being right there with him as he went through everything. I thought I was giving him space to find his own comfort level, he thought I was watching and judging him from afar. But, when we talked about trying these things during that period, he still said he was enthusiastic. The contradiction drove me temporarily insane and it took a lot of time, a lot of honesty, to work that out between us.

So...patience, honesty, re-evaluate your behaviour and reactions, find out what he needs from you right now and be that person if you can. It won't happen overnight but don't give up hoping because things are going slowly. You have to build a new foundation and that can take awhile.

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 10:56:40 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: changeling

I am a married submissive who is unsure if my husband is Dominant material. I have been aware of my desire to live the D/s lifestyle for over two years and I know in my heart that it is “who I am” and how I desire to live my life. I am deeply in love with my husband and want nothing more than to live this lifestyle with him as my Dominant.


Before anyone could even begin to offer you any useful advice, we need to better understand just what you are talking about....so...

1) What do you mean by submissive? Do you wish to be physically controlled, or do you wish to feel like you belong to your Dominant? Do you want to be a rape victim or a consensual sex slave? Do you wish to serve him from your knees, or be fucked by him while you are blindfolded and bound?

2) What do you mean by "live the D/s lifestyle"? Do you wish to be out and public about it? Do you want to go out together at the end of his leash? Do you wish to join a local community and attend parties and events? Or do you simply wish to think of yourself as his submissive at all times?

3) Are you looking for a TPE 24/7 situation? Are you really prepared for what that entails? Do you wish to find out?


Before I get the answers to these questions, I would suggest one thing. Instead of questioning the quality of dominance in your husband, perhaps you might have at look at the quality of your submission...

If you do answer these, I promise I will provide you with some concrete suggestions that just might work for you...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 10:59:03 AM   
Mylee


Posts: 217
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I've sent you a message, I had a long response and I didnt wanna take up space posting it here :)

*huggles*
my'lee

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 11:04:14 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		HEY NOW THERES A LINE I NEED TO REMEBMER

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mylee

I've sent you a message, I had a long response and I didnt wanna take up space posting it here :)


(in reply to Mylee)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 11:06:21 AM   
changeling


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

I DOUBT that a Ds relationship will work with you and your husband because neither of you have the motivation to really change what's been working so far. Let's face it, how would you REALLY react the first time he said no to something you REALLY want?


I apologize for not being more clear. I probably should have told you that in the beginning of our D/s journey we were what I would consider successful for several months...and the dynamic between us was beautiful...but it did not last...he faded out. So, I have been told "no" by him with regard to something I really wanted...and reacted in a submiisive manner towards him (most of the time)...yes, I did get punishment. However, he was not consistent with punishment either. It was a very intense and wonderful time in my life. It only made my desires stronger.

quote:

You've gotten yourself into a bad habit of automatically taking control, as well as trying to passive aggressively use it to get HIM to take control. Even if you get into a relationship with another dom, this habit will have to be broken (it's very common with new subs).


Yes, I have much to work on.

quote:

He's gotten into a habit of being comfortable, he's accepted that YOU want things YOUR way. Even here- YOU want him to be the dominant over you. Unfortunately the years you've trained him to acquiesce to your desires have now put you in this place of not knowing what to do!


Yes, which is why I am in need of some guidance.

quote:


Can't answer that. On the surface I'd say he could at least be a good top, but you've trained him so much to just do what you want and be passive, it's going to be hard to break out of that even if it's his true orientation.


As I told Faramir in a previous response...hindsight is 20/20...had I know about my desires at the start of our relationship...I would have attempted to temper down my "strong-will" in a domineering sense and would have kept myself from "training" him to be passive (sigh). Now I wonder if I will ever really know if he is Dominant or not. Another thing that might help in your assessment...he is extremely Dominant in the bedroom...extremely. (once again something that makes me desire this lifestyle with him even more). It is out of the bedroom that he lacks the Dominance.

quote:

I have to say, from your "do doms feel this" question, my guess is that you yourself are still pretty novice when it comes to the scene at large, though I applaud your years long researching and involvement.


Yes, I am novice other than the experiences with my husband.

quote:

Take your strengths- getting him to do what you want and get them moving. It might feel "weird" to you, but trust me, it's not topping from the bottom. Most submissives are expected to be an asset to the dom and motivate them. So, make a date to a club and drag him along. Use your persuasion and controlling skills to both of your benefit by not letting him sit around.

But beware- he DOES have to take as much an active part in this and do it for himself just as much as YOU have to be willing to change your own bad habits in the long term. It's a process that will take a long time, but it can happen.


EmeraldSlave2, thank you for this advice!

changeling


(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 1:46:06 PM   
changeling


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline
Taggard, some answers for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

1) What do you mean by submissive? Do you wish to be physically controlled, or do you wish to feel like you belong to your Dominant? Do you want to be a rape victim or a consensual sex slave? Do you wish to serve him from your knees, or be fucked by him while you are blindfolded and bound?


What I would like is to have a 24/7 TPE with my husband as well as a BDSM relationship...although we do just fine in the BDSM department. As I explained to EmeraldSlave2, in the bed, he is completely Dominant..and quite capable of taking me into sub-space....I feel owned and controlled and at his will. Outside of the bedroom is altogether a different story, hence my need for advice and the reason for my original post.

quote:

2) What do you mean by "live the D/s lifestyle"? Do you wish to be out and public about it? Do you want to go out together at the end of his leash? Do you wish to join a local community and attend parties and events? Or do you simply wish to think of yourself as his submissive at all times?


What I mean is having a 24/7 TPE with him. Being part of the community "out in public" is not something I desire at this time...but I also do not oppose it either. Right now my only focus in on my private relationship with my husband.

3) Are you looking for a TPE 24/7 situation? Are you really prepared for what that entails? Do you wish to find out?

Yes, yes and yes.


quote:

Before I get the answers to these questions, I would suggest one thing. Instead of questioning the quality of dominance in your husband, perhaps you might have at look at the quality of your submission...


I do question my submission..first and foremost. I have much to work on within myself and am willing to go the distance. Yet, if I am with someone who "doesn't have it (the desire) in him"....then I am out of luck I suppose. I obviously know I have the desire inside because I know what I feel. I am not inside my husband, thus I am unsure as to his desire for this kind of life. So, at times, it's like hitting your head against a brick wall. As I stated before in my original post, we have communicated about my desires and he "says" he wants the same...yet, his actions have not been forthcoming...thus my confusion and "sore head" :) .

changeling

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 2:26:18 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: changeling
quote:


3) Are you looking for a TPE 24/7 situation? Are you really prepared for what that entails? Do you wish to find out?

Yes, yes and yes.



Ok, I am going to challenge you to find 36 consecutive hours in the next week in which to devote to this "test."

To begin the test, ask youself this question: "Do I want to be his slave?"

Focus on the two important words here..."his" and "slave." If your answer is yes, commit to being his complete and utter servant for the next 36 hours.

1) Place yourself on your knees before him and wait for his command. (Remove yourself only with his permission and only to take care of vital needs. (As much as you can, try to get your needs met in a way that does not take you away from him. Sneek food and water while you prepare his meals. Get your bathroom time in while he sleeps.)

2) If he asks you to do something, do it quickly and return to your position as soon as you can.

3) If he leaves the house, kneel by the door until he returns.

4) When he sleeps, place yourself on the floor by the foot of the bed. Give him a bell with which he can call you.

5) Do not chat, or surf the web, or watch tv or do anything but keep yourself in a ready state to serve him in whatever way he might require.

6) Do not anticipate his needs. Only do what he asks and nothing more.

At the end of the 36 hours, you will repeat the original question: "Do I want to be his slave?" and you will have one of three responses:

a) you will answer "yes"...in which case, you will spend the next 36 hours in exactly the same manner you spent the last 36 hours.
b) you will answer "no"...in which case you will understand that you will never have what you seek with your husband.
c) the question will lose all meaning, because you will have no need to "want" to be his slave...you will have become his slave.

It will be a very very hard 36 hours...but there is much to gain...and onky a day and a half to lose.

Good luck,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 3:09:12 PM   
changeling


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty


quote:

Ok, I am going to challenge you to find 36 consecutive hours in the next week in which to devote to this "test."

To begin the test, ask youself this question: "Do I want to be his slave?"

Focus on the two important words here..."his" and "slave." If your answer is yes, commit to being his complete and utter servant for the next 36 hours.


Taggard,

Neither one of us (me or my husband) defines 24/7 TPE as you do (or rather seem to based on your "test"). We view 24/7 TPE in a Dom/sub way (and even that definition differs with different people)...we do not see it as a Master/slave dynamic (once again, different defintions can be given for such "titles") In all of the research and reading I have done with regards to the one commonality that a D/s relationship encompasses or is "defined as" is that that there is no commonality...each relationship is defined and interpreted on the basis of that individual couple....it becomes based on what works for them.

Thus, the challenge you present would do nothing for either of us...as neither one of us sees 24/7 TPE as me kneeling before him for 36 consecutive hours awaiting his commands.

Nevertheless, wanting to find out if I am submissive or not or whether I can "deal" with a 24/7 TPE is not what I had originally asked for in my original post. I am not here to "prove" whether I am submissive or whether I can "hack" a 24/7 TPE with my husband...rather I am here to find some support with a very real and very confusing issue I am dealing with in my marriage...given our circumstances.

Hopefully I did not misinterpret what you meant with regard to your post.

Thank you for the challenge....yet, I politely decline the test.

changeling

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 3:14:31 PM   
changeling


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		Isolde,

Yes, I will re-read EmeraldSlave's response. Thank you for the advice and sharing your experience with me...it is greatly appreciated.

changeling

(in reply to Isolde)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 3:16:38 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: changeling
Hopefully I did not misinterpret what you meant with regard to your post.


When a man approaches the shaolin temple to be trained as a monk, they will tell him on the first day that he can not be a monk. Those who stay will be told on the second day that they will never be admitted. Those who stay are let into the temple on the third day.

No TPE is about kneeling and waiting for a command all day every day. Yet, if you show your Top/Dom/Master/whatever the lengths you are prepared to go to submit to him, you will be amazed at the results...

Of course, YMMV...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 3:24:53 PM   
changeling


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline

quote:

When a man approaches the shaolin temple to be trained as a monk, they will tell him on the first day that he can not be a monk. Those who stay will be told on the second day that they will never be admitted. Those who stay are let into the temple on the third day.

No TPE is about kneeling and waiting for a command all day every day. Yet, if you show your Top/Dom/Master/whatever the lengths you are prepared to go to submit to him, you will be amazed at the results...



Taggard,

Point very well taken. Thank you.

changeling

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 3:27:15 PM   
Isolde


Posts: 213
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Hamilton, Ontario
Status: offline 		Of course, changeling. If you ever want to talk, to swap 'war stories' or what have you, feel free to email me on the other side of the site. :)

I just caught up on everything else you've written here and it does clarify a lot to hear that your husband is dominant in the bedroom. That would make his hesitation to actively pursue dominance outside of the bedroom more confusing, I know. I had the same problem until mine was finally frank with me about being more a top than a dominant. In your husband's case, it might be that he is a bedroom dominant or that he's unsure of how to exert his control over your dynamic outside of the bedroom, in the rest of your life.

I still think the first thing you should do is to sit down with him and have as honest a discussion as you can about what you both really want. If he continues to insist that he is interested in behaving as your dominant 24/7, present him with a starter list of 3 or 4 things/rituals/behaviours you would like to start doing for him or he for you. They can be things as simple as greeting him and touching your forehead to his feet every time he comes in the door to him holding you by the wrist instead of the hand when you're walking in public or you making sure he eats first, or tasting his food for him before he eats it (I know someone who does this for her dominant, it's a way of humbling herself by playing 'poison-tester' in public). Whatever works best with the dynamic you two have already built in the bedroom. Once these things have been integrated into your life and he sees that the heavens haven't opened and struck him down for taking these behaviours outside of the bedroom, maybe he'll begin to introduce his own ways of exerting his dominance over you day to day.

I know that sounds as if I'm suggesting you top from the bottom, but really the decision to do those things will be up to him. If he chooses not to, all right. That's his perogative. But you've just eased the way for him to step out of the bedroom, if he is uncertain. Maybe all he needs is to see that you can do these things, make them habits, have them fulfill you both in a way that is erotic but not directly sexual.

Good luck!

< Message edited by Isolde -- 7/6/2005 3:28:00 PM >

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 3:32:28 PM   
Mylee


Posts: 217
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		*smiles at LordandMaster* Here's another line for ya


Changling, I've left you another message, it was long and I didnt wanna take up more space



*winks*
my'lee

(in reply to Isolde)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 5:23:29 PM   
BlouLady


Posts: 170
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I was/am in this very same situation,right down to previously being very domineering. Unfortunately I have no solid advice for you.My own husband is very good at being a Dom when he is in the mood, sadly though he's not often in the mood and it leaves me frustrated.So I completely feel for you and offer best wishes--Lady

< Message edited by BlouLady -- 7/6/2005 5:24:11 PM >

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 6:17:18 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		YEAH BUT THE PROBLEM IS LIKE ITS AHRD FOR ME TO RITE NAYTHING LONGER THAN A SENTANCE OR 2 SO THAT LINE WOUDLNT COME OFF RITE IF I SAID IT

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mylee

*smiles at LordandMaster* Here's another line for ya


Changling, I've left you another message, it was long and I didnt wanna take up more space


(in reply to Mylee)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Married sub Confused - 7/6/2005 7:15:31 PM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline 		Taggard and I do occasionally agree and this is one of those times. I, too, would advise understaking a strictly submissive path if you wish to evoke a correspondingly dominant response from your husband.
I will add, however, that there remains a question, not of your husband's dominance or lack thereof, but in basic compatability. The man may be one who feels completely comfortable being dominant in his own way on his own schedule and his way and timetable may be less than satisfactory for you. This is not an uncommon occurance, from what I've heard and seen.
I doubt I've been helpful but I do wish you the best of luck.
Timothy

(in reply to changeling)
Profile   Post #: 20
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