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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 6:16:18 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		The data is known and in my eyes credible. That you require this data to be vetted by an Institution or a Reputation is not relevant, especially since such Institutions and Reputations - like the Nobel Peace Prize Committee - are themselves not credible in my eyes.
Reasonable judgment provides an objective conclusion, not an opinion nor a fact, but a truth: sadistic personality disorder bordering on psychopath and a thief of a huge amount of money as well.
 
This conclusion has nothing to do with mud-slinging and reputation bashing. The conclusion is the same for anyone that meets the same or similar criteria.
 
On the other hand I have seen you do a repeated reputation bashing of one or more authors that wrote a book or article that criticized the Vulture of Calcutta.
 
You clearly have personal issues here. Your identity is linked to the reputation of T and of charities. You perceive any discrediting of them as an attack on your identity. To be blunt: you are not objective.
 
I advise you to disassociate yourself from charities. Most if not all of them are evil organizations that abuse and corrupt the power that good people like yourself give to them.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 7:37:42 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Bigotted and ignorant, did you say ?


Throw insults at me as a tactic to not answer my question - cute move,  but then again you probably haven't a clue about the doctrines of any religion.  Maybe if you sought to understand rather then attack you might learn something valuable in the interum.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 7:47:06 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		No one will ever get their hands on any paper trail that involves money and the catholic church. Last I knew the catholic church is the single wealthiest entity in the world. That, in and of itself, makes it inherently evil and goes against the teachings of christ. If I remember my bible school at all, christ told the churches that there should be no money, no business dealings in the house of the lord EVER! Not to mention the part about worshiping false idols. From my few godawful experiences in their churches they do this pretty well also..... I guess those rules somehow just don't apply anymore?

Now, call me a fool but.......as far as I can see in this great big wonderful world, wealth equals power. Great wealth, such as the catholic church has, equals great power. We are talking a power that transcends borders, governments and certainly any individual human being. The catholic church is so entrenched it will quite probably take an act of god to expose all of the corruption that lies within.

Do I believe that all that follow this faith are equally evil? Oh hell no! I feel that they are disallusioned but certainly not evil. Do I feel that there are people that follow this faith that do good works in the name of their faith? Absolutely!

However, I also feel that ANYONE has a right to question a person that works that closely with an entity that has that much power, that much historically proven corruption, and that well oiled of a machine to hide almost all of their transgressions. If the questioning of these people and the church they hide behind gets some of their blind followers panties in a wad, too bad. It makes me wonder why. Is their own faith so fragile? In the christian church I grew up in, we were taught to believe without question certainly but we were also taught christian behaviour like "turn the other cheek" and something along the lines of tollerance for those that didn't believe as we did because something about "they know not what they do" and on and on.

Herein lies one of my biggest issues with modern christianity. The hypocrisy of what they so vehemently defend. It is okay to be kind to those that agree with us and believe as we do but let someone come along that disagrees and all those good christian values get tossed right through the stained glass windows. I guess it is the new modern christianity to pick and choose what is followed? They can be, only human, and we all know they can go to confession and all if forgiven (what a crock of shit that is btw). Yet let someone question, or suggest that one of their false idols was less than saintly and all hell breaks loose.

Personally, if your going to defend it then fucking live it. Quite being hypocritical and picking and choosing what you will stand for. Be a christian? The start being a christian.....aka christlike! In all the bible reading I did in my youth I don't remember Jesus being a snarky ass and belittling anyone that dared question what he believed in. Nope, seems that he just kinda went about his business of trying to spread the word and LIVE what he taught. Sorta, spreading the love....... I sure don't see any of that from the self proclaimed christians in this big beautiful world. So yeah, until I see some action and follow through, I am going to keep questioning their beliefs and their actions.

Now, as for the whole little old lady thing. Well, like I have said before. I don't know much about her and doubt anyone can prove she was inherently evil or christlike. Personally, I think that is between her and her god. Because I also remember a passage in that gawd awful tomb I question.....something about judge not lest ye be judged...... I am thinking if she fucked up then according to her religioun she will pay the price, if not......nothing any of us can say pro or con...... matters anyway.




_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Rule)
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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 8:10:45 AM   
e01n


Posts: 1472
Status: offline 		Personally, I look at Mother Teresa as worthy of respect.

As sadists go, It's pretty much her, then Himmler, then G-d... Gotta respect that.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 244
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 8:29:44 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Good post.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
if she fucked up then according to her religion she will pay the price
There is a theological problem with that. She was born as a vulture, born to relish in the misery of others. Such a person in life is not subject to the consequences of sin, because she has no conscience. Neither can the God of the Dead hold her accountable for being a vulture and either do away with her mind or parts of her mind, nor reincarnate her for that reason as a lesser being. In fact - and I am loath to admit the possibility - the suffering of her victims may indeed have benefitted them spiritually.
 
I have been pondering this ethical dilemma since I made my first post in this thread, but as yet I cannot think of a valid reason to send her mind or parts of it into eternal oblivion.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/27/2007 8:32:24 AM >

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 8:44:32 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you.

I understand your mention of the spiritual benefit. It is something that is difficult for me when watching people I love suffer. Based upon my own beliefs. It is much easier for me to believe it when looking at my own life and the difficult times but when it is someone I love or an innocent......very painful at times. But then I ask myself, according to my growing beliefs, is there such a thing as an innocent soul?


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 246
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 9:37:39 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I understand your mention of the spiritual benefit. It is something that is difficult for me when watching people I love suffer. Based upon my own beliefs. It is much easier for me to believe it when looking at my own life and the difficult times but when it is someone I love or an innocent......very painful at times.

Quite. However, I do not think that this suffering is necessarily necessary. One may choose to die honorably in battle instead of the pain and suffering. A human predator may come and make a clean kill and thus prevent suffering. I am less enthusiastic about suicide, but I know of a south american indian chief who suffered from a brain disease and who decided to end his life by jumping from a cliff, and about drug addicts that jump before a train or go for a swim. The problem with many religions is that they are opposed in a destructive way to evil instead of cooperating in a constructive way with evil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
But then I ask myself, according to my growing beliefs, is there such a thing as an innocent soul?

I am probably the most righteous of humans, but I have been tainted myself - and paid for it. It does enable me to be lenient about the transgressions of others - but the spiritual price for those transgressions must always be paid.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/27/2007 10:09:18 AM >

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 11:59:10 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Harvard University has an "endowment" of around $40 Billion so you know that the Catholic Church has a whole lot more than that.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 248
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 12:45:06 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: e01n

Personally, I look at Mother Teresa as worthy of respect.

As sadists go, It's pretty much her, then Himmler, then G-d... Gotta respect that.


Ouch !

_____________________________



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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 1:15:02 PM   
sjacket


Posts: 152
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		The 1949 Nobel Prize for Medicine went to Dr. Antonio Moniz- the man who popularized the modern lobotomy.  I doubt everyone considers that award to be very valid. 

_____________________________

Have you hugged your Sadist today?

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 1:36:54 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		If I recall, there are plenty of wealthy people in the world, who manage to do a lot of good in the world with their money. Look at the donation Warren  Buffett just made - over $30 billion dollars to the Gates foundation.

And anyway, people's religious POV's are really beside the point. And Rule is deliberatley misunderstanding Catholic Theology, and taking any old view or quotation re: Suffering surrounding her, or what she said about its value completely out of context in order to appear oh so clever - that's total crap Rule, and you know it. Your religious hang-ups are not anyone's problem,and don't prove a thing.

The Irish Catholics and Protestants have been fighting it out for centuries. Ditto for the Palestinians and the Isrealis. And so?

To get back to the actual topic - Mother Theresa - if I recall as well, she lived in complete poverty herself her entire life, anyway. Nobody's proven a thing, in that regard.

Apparently, there is a real lack of imagination re: Any other circumstances that might have existed surrounding that money, that seems to have been completely abandoned, due to a willingness to jump on a bandwagon  that is ready to believe any old author. Is it really necessary to point out that that data about missing money are:

1) Unproven

2) The work of authors whose motives could definitely be in question as well.

3) That even if its true, it is still a snap-shot of a point in time. Not necessarily proof of pervasive circumstances.

4) It doesn't prove that no good was ever done with donations to Mother Theresa  

Whether someone appreciates a person who received a past Nobel Peace Prize is beside the point. It takes substantial vetting to receive one, by people qualified enough to judge whether or not they might deserve it - at that point in time.

It does not, however, take any vetting whatsoever - merely a wilingness to make a fast dollar at the expense of an ignorant public by making unproven allegations, to write a book claiming they are true -or to believe allegations tossed about with no real proof of their veracity.

IMO anyone who actually objects to the idea of a Nobel Peace Prize existing in the first place has a slightly deranged POV. IMO their objection to it existing sums up just about everything wrong in the world.  

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 2:08:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 1:45:29 PM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		This is to no one in particular.
I tend to think, and I have no proof whatsoever other than my own logic, that the Catholic Church is a huge, wealthy and powerful entity.  Something that tends to go hand in hand with those attributes is also greed and corruption.  It also seems logical to me that MT was a very effective figurehead and most likely was not involved in the distribution of the monies at all.  I think those monies were as sparingly spent as possible in order to keep the profits as high as possible and I think those decisions were made by a group who would benefit the most by keeping a lot of money in the bank.  Those decisions led to the conditions that people are critical of within this thread.  Just my opinion with no documentation to back it up at all.

edited to add...I was born Catholic, but not raised Catholic.  Strange for an Italian family.  My parents hated hypocrisy.  My faith is in Jesus and not in the Catholic Church.  I think Jesus would be disgusted with the state of the Church.

< Message edited by Aileen68 -- 8/27/2007 1:48:32 PM >

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 1:48:10 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Just remember, you need a court order to dig up her remains and search her body for clues.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 1:53:49 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Has it occured to anyone that even if she did hoard money, it still might not have been her fault. She is under the direction of the Pope. She has to do what he says.

The Pope is a patiarch in that regard, and the Catholic church tends to be a very patriarchal institution. It does not follow that Mother Theresa was necessarily evil. In any case, any allegations re: What she did with her money are definitely unproven.

Like I said - the problem people have seems to be with Catholicism, not Mother Theresa. Two entirely different things, IMO.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 1:59:30 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 2:00:38 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		So you can get a Nobel just for being Catholic?

Before she was good because she had money with which she could help the poor, but for some reason didn't use it.

Now she is good because she meant well but didn't have constructive control of the money, so she did the best she could with almost nothing.

Lame.

< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 8/27/2007 2:01:17 PM >

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 255
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 2:01:55 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I cannot argue with you. For reasons previously mentioned. Maybe someone else can. Sorry.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 256
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 2:09:24 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I *CAN* argue with you but you have nothing to add but some cheap rhetoric that could be levelled at almost any kind of evidence. Everyone has a motive. Everyone could be lying. Nothing is ever 100% certain, we just aim for the highest level of probable truth.

All you have are your twin sacred cows: Teresa and the Nobel.

Big fucking deal...

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 257
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 2:14:17 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I remain unimpressed with your POV. You haven't actually proven a thing. And you've managed to be substantially rude along the way, IMO. That was apparent from your very fist post. How very Domly of you.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 2:25:09 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 2:23:02 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		You haven't *proven* anything either. According to your own criteria, that would be impossible to do in this electronic medium. Everything you have stated is no better than a strong opinion on a particular subject - which is exactly the same thing you say about everyone else's contributions to the discussion.

Did you learn this devastating rhetorical technique at a Mensa meeting?

Does your ignorant posturing have no limits?


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 2:30:19 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I have nothing left to say to you, SugarMyChurro. But lest you conclude this is because you are a wonderful debater, let's just say it's due to your initial rudeness, the fact you have a completely unfounded argument you continue to put forth like its Gospel, and your willingness to throw an entire thread off-track at its inception, merely to support your own (IMO warped)POV, without any regard whatsoever for the initial topic proposed by the OP -and to continue to do it. Sorry. I am done with this convo. And btw, if the OP isn't here, it's because he was initially pretty upset anyone would try to do that (I know. He wrote me about it). Not that you have to care.

The initial topic was Mother Theresa's spiritual struggle and her work. If you had even bothered to read the OP's accompanying article, you'd have known that.

For the record - it may just be a personal quirk - but I consider anyone willing to dive right in with their very first post - and attempt to tear up the rep of the person the initial post was about, which the OP was obviously a fan of - and based on no evidence that they've managed to prove in 13 pages to show a real lack of judgment.

But of course it is a free country, and a free forum, and this is the Internet -so do what you want.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 3:27:26 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 260
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