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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 4:02:41 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Susan, you really need to get a grip.  You're right...it's the Internet and we are all just pixels on a screen.  Yanno, you're not the only one who considers Level a friend nor (gasp) are you the only one he emails. 

I really have no clue why you are venting at me but if it makes you feel better, by all means, YOU have at it.

And, Rule?  Now it's that number plus 4.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 281
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 4:04:22 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		bandit25: You're over-reacting. Get a grip yourself. It's not all about you, and I think I made some valid points.

Rule: I hate to say it, but I am worn out. This might seem like I am running away from a debate, but I am not. I am very physically tired. I've made all of my points clear (over and over). I am sure there is someone else here willing to debate with you. I'd even do it if I wasn't really exhausted. Good luck.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 4:09:40 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 282
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 4:51:10 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		This discussion to me is interesting. Not because of what you say, but because of your personality. I have modeled the minds of select types of people. You very clearly meet my criteria for the people of type sub. Also very clearly you do not meet my criteria for the people of type slave.
 
Having a high IQ like yours does not make one by definition right, my dear. Indeed, in this thread you have been wrong throughout. A high IQ is useful, but limited. Your true mental strength lies in another area of the mind entirely.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 283
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 4:55:27 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		FR

shakin head 

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 284
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 4:59:31 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, I know that.  It's all about you.  You may have made some very valid points.  All I did is ask why you directed such odd comments to me.  Maybe you just hit the reply key...who knows?

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 285
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 5:49:01 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

nor (gasp) are you the only one he emails.


Yep, he emails me too, surprise.
I think it's pretty obvious that he enjoys an eclectic group of people.
And I'm going to give him credit for wearing big boys pants when he plays on the mean internets!


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 286
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 5:50:56 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		bandit25: They were never directed at you. You just assumed they were. Reality check. Were they addressed, specifically to you? No, they weren't. If you want to assume it though, nobody can stop you.

KatyLied: And? The original topic of the OP was Mother Theresa's own spiritual struggle and her life's work. Within a few posts, someone managed to veer off into a reputation bashing thread evaluating everything from the value of religion (guess I don't have quite enough faith to be an Atheist - not that it's even the topic) and to whether charity is even a valuable goal to begin with. It's ridiculous (to me).

Rule: Not the topic. You didn't intend to talk about the original topic form the start. That much is clear. Your anti-religious sentiments are neither my problem, not the topic of the original OP (from my POV). And btw, you have no proof, and have not even managed to come up with one citation throught this thread, that backs up anything you've said. Opinions are fine. Opine away. 
Hope someone here is willing to take you up on your opining.

I can see a thread evolving, but if it hadn't been for those initially (IMO) very rude posts by one or two, it could have taken a completely different turn, and discussed something slightly more positive, like how she (or anyone) managed to help people without regard to creed, or status. And from now on I am ignoring those posts. I was a fool to participate by even bothering to argue. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 6:13:48 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 287
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 6:01:18 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Indeed.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 288
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 6:02:54 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		It was fun while it lasted.  And I don't really think it's over.  Yet.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 289
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 6:05:43 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		It's a forum. My point was never that someone cannot disagree - but just that I think it's nice if people try to agree on a topic first (by even bothering to read the original OP and what he had posted there). Churro and farglebargle's rantings struck me as so off-topic from the start, I couldn't help but think they had an "agenda".

If they feel that strongly about it, why can't they just start their own threads? Why deliberately try to ruin someone else's from the very start? Others may disagree, and it's not even what they said. Call me picky, but, it's the way they said it. 

I think Mother Theresa's own spiritual struggle was a mark of her own humility. She was so embarrassed and ashamed of it, she did not want anyone to know. The fact people seem automatically to want to attribute that to evil motives isn't my problem. It is absolutely ludicrous to me personally, though, as an immediate assumption. Her spiritual struggle was apparently very painful for her. Even she questioned for years, her own value. Nobody mentioned that (at least not more than once). It was all in the OP's original article that he included in his original post. 

I agree there are probabaly "evil" Christians out there. I just dont think she was one, that's all. And I already said why.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 6:21:57 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 290
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 7:02:52 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Churro and farglebargle's rantings struck me as so off-topic from the start, I couldn't help but think they had an "agenda".


Speaking only for myself, my agenda was simply to play devil's advocate over the probably undeserved reputation of Teresa.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
If they feel that strongly about it, why can't they just start their own threads? Why deliberately try to ruin someone else's from the very start?


Sometimes you can control the trajectory of a thread, sometimes not. These online discussions have a life of their own. That much is obvious.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
I think Mother Theresa's own spiritual struggle was a mark of her own humility...


See? That's one of my problems right there. On a certain level I just don't care about that type of discussion. Teresa's piety - be it sincere, profound, steadfast or not - holds little interest for me. If she had been anyone but THEE lionized religious celebrity I doubt the subject would interest anyone but herself or her confessor. You might say this spiritual doubt represents a sign of greater humanity, humility, etc - but to an outsider it just seems like a kind of fallibility. An admission that she did not believe. Full stop.

So to me it seems like she couldn't quite believe the same shit she was whispering to the sick and dying. So, while simultaneously not providing the basic hospice care for which she was a celebrity all over the world, she also tried to comfort people with insincerely spoken words.

I guess that fast-tracked canonization is going to be a bumpier ride than originally expected. Alternatively, since so many suckers are willing to forgive and forget these obvious signs of impiety, maybe it's the very thing to cinch sainthood for Teresa.

I don't know...

Maybe someone could fill in the blanks of the complete "sainthood" process...I thought beautification was effectively sainthood, but apparently it's just a stepping stone along the way there.





(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 291
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 8:40:25 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Why would that surprise you, that she doubted her own value in ther world?  She was a human being like anyone else.

Only because you've placed her on some anti-pedastal re: Good works and possibly holy acts. Even the Pope has not done that yet - she is not declared by him to be a saint. 

She was beatified for reasons that seem obvious enough to me. If they don't to you (and it appears they never will be), or simply due to yoiur ignorance of Catholicism, then we have not much to discuss, do we?

*Maybe you could fill in the blanks re: Why someone would claim to, let alone want to, debate a topic they obviously know nothing about?

Or why they might be too lazy to educate themselves about it, before opening their trap?

Or why they claim "the media is all crap", and then go on to cite several media source as "evidence"?

You have access to the Internet just like anyone else. Why should I be willing to do your dirty work for you? You're the debater.

If 'ya wanna be a Devils' Advocate - then do a little of your own work, pal.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 8:55:32 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 292
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 8:58:00 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
...holy acts...


You lost me after that. It's clear that you are delusional. There are only acts, not "holy acts." The idea of "holy acts" is mumbo jumbo fairy dust...

And to be honest, I consider knowing as little about the Catholic church and its procedures as is possible a sort of honor. I know enough to know it's all hogwash. What I don't know about the Catholic church I expect I don't need to know.

Someone here has a signature that reads something like: "Jesus, please save me from all of your followers." To that sentiment I can give a resounding: "ditto!"

-----

You see the whole culture. Nazis, deodorant salesmen, wrestlers, beauty contests, a talk show. Can you imagine the level of a mind that watches wrestling? But the worst are the fundamentalist preachers. Third grade con men telling the poor suckers that watch them that they speak with Jesus, and to please send in money. Money, money, money! If Jesus came back and saw what's going on in his name, he'd never stop throwing up. - Woody Allen, Hannah and Her Sisters (1986)

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 293
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 9:00:56 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I'm still puzzled by all the pro MT people. Have any of you made even a cursory attempt to find some major project funded by the massive donations her order received over the years? Where are the state of the art hospitals? Where are the hospices where the terminally ill can die in dignity and a little comfort? Where are the schools helping the next generation elevate themselves out of poverty? Where are the lasting good works her fame and fundraising ability should have produced?

If they don't exist how can you support this woman? Only the most reviled of fraudulent charities never spend any money in the way givers intended. How many people would have lived longer better lives if all that money had gone to charities willing to spend it?

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 294
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 9:04:25 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		There are tons of them. One of my pet peeves are people who like to sound negative about a topic, simply because they think it make them sound smart, and want to focus on the negative at the expense of the positive as a habit, and especially who won't do their own research but claim they want to debate, when all they really are is opinionated, habitually negative, cynical and ignorant of the topic.

There's already a post on here re: Her accomplishments - in fact there are two of them. If you don't like those sources, then you have access to the Internet and can do your own research. If you simply can't bother to read this thread, then I have not much to say.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 9:15:13 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 295
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 9:10:16 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Zen question: Does SusanofO keep posting even if there is no one there to read her words?








I Kid...but goddamn it...!


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 296
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 9:11:22 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Because people like you really tick me off, that's why. Churro, you don't seem to appreciate the topic, from any angle -and also seem to refuse to educate yourself about any of it. Afraid I can't help. You're on your own.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 9:14:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 297
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 9:21:40 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
...you don't seem to appreciate the topic, from any angle...


Now you know that's not true...

I appreciate the topic from the standpoint of revealing a religious hoax for what it is - a con intended to separate the gullible from their money.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 298
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 9:27:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

There are tons of them. One of my pet peeves are people who like to sound negative about a topic, simply because they think it make them sound smart, and want to focus on the negative at the expense of the positive as a habit, and especially who won't do their own research but claim they want to debate, when all they really are is opinionated, habitually negative, cynical and ignorant of the topic.

There's already a post on here re: Her accomplishments - in fact there are two of them. If you don't like those sources, then you have access to the Internet and can do your own research. If you simply can't bother to read this thread, then I have not much to say.

- Susan

Maybe you missed it but I've done the research, clearly more than you have, and I failed to find a single project anywhere with ongoing funding from the Missionaries of Charity. No clinics, no hospitals, no hospices, no schools, no microcredit banks nothing at all.

What I found were a few clinics and hospices all of which got startup money from the order but then got not another dime. I found numerous reports of MoC nuns coercing donations for local operations from, often very poor, locals. I most certainly did not find a 5000 student school even though I found multiple sources with a fundraising letter from the early 90's making that claim. I found ample reports that no pain meds are available in the orders hospices. I was able to find multiple source indicating that donated funriture, office equipment and other items that might be useful in managing the order's operations and in giving the nuns and other users of these facilities a modicum of comfort are put into storage and never put to use.

What I can't fathom is that not a single supporter of MT has bothered to do the research to either prove me wrong or face the facts that something was/is fundamentally and horribly wrong with MT and her legacy.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 299
RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/27/2007 9:34:52 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am not discussing this further. I guess you didn't bother to read this thread, or do very investigative research. Because I have and there are hundreds: Of clinics, schools and hospices she and her order began - all over the world, in 800 different sites, in countries from Russia to Africa to India and beyond. Over 40 million non-Catholics have helped her raise funds and over 1 million poeple help her in her work (many non-Catholic or not reliously affiliated at all) - many do it for free, due to believing in her and her cause to help the poor and needy and ill. Her rep isn't going to rise or fall due to someone on a website too ignorant or lazy to bother to educate himself re: Her vast accomplishments. She was living in poverty herself when she did those things.

I don't feel particulary obligated to post any info. about that-  certainly not because it is doesn't exist - but because you've been both lazy and rude from the get go.

I guess I just find it rather dis-heartening that supposedly Domly Doms dont have better judgment (or manners) than to seemingly have no purpose than to blast an OP's topic - rather than starting a thread of their own, if their views are so strong in the opposite direction.

Discuss this with someone else - or start your own venomously anti-religious, anti-MotherTheresa thread, then. I am sure there will be plenty of folks who are willing to write in.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2007 9:49:26 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 300
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