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Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 5:33:50 AM

Synocense

Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline

Hello,

I attended a seminar at my local BDSM club. Master Skip Chasey and his slave, Rick, presented Mastery as a Spirtual Calling. Now, before everyone thinks this post is all about hokey pokey religioius stuff, I want to assure you it is not. What I would like to do is share a list of qualities with you, qualities which many believe make up a true Master. I am certain some will feel the passion of the words and some will cock their head, raise their brows and think, while still others might disagree with one or all of the qualities. These are the things I am counting on and would like the opinions of others, both dominant and submissive alike. : )

A Master is spiritually awake.

A Master is actively engaged in regular practice to strengthen and deepen his awakening.

To the best of his ability, a Master loves unconditionally.

A Master strives to be uncompromising in his integrity.

A Master is honest, trustworthy and consistent in his words and actions.

A Master is willing to be emotionally open and vulnerable; he does not hide his feelings but instead expresses them in a healthy manner.

A Master knows while pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

To avoid causing suffering in himself and others, a Master remains in control of his ego even when he indulges it.

A Master does not accept the service of a slave casually and does not take the responsibility of mastering a slave lightly.

A Master accepts his slaves body and trust with gratitude, and takes neither for granted.

A Master understands the importance and value of discipline and protocol; he develops discipline for himself and a protocol for his slave that is both nurturing and nourishing.

A Master possesses and uses healthy and functional communication skills and insists his slave does as well.

A Master is willing to stand in the middle of his slaves projections about the Master without moving, neither fostering nor supporting the illusion, nor destroying it.

A Master is willing to hear, witout complaint, or self pity, the awareness that doing his best may, at times, not be good enough.

A Master is willing to admit his mistakes, acknowledge his shortcomings and makes amends whenever possible.

Well wishes,
Syn

_____________________________

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence?

Post #: 1

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 5:40:24 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Synocense
A Master is spiritually awake.

So is a slave and a vanilla person.

quote:

A Master is actively engaged in regular practice to strengthen and deepen his awakening.

So is a slave and a vanilla person.

quote:

To the best of his ability, a Master loves unconditionally.

What does that have to do with being a master? I'm sure slaves and vanillas do this too.

quote:

A Master strives to be uncompromising in his integrity.

So do slaves and vanillas.

quote:

A Master is honest, trustworthy and consistent in his words and actions.

So are slaves and vanillas.

quote:

A Master is willing to be emotionally open and vulnerable; he does not hide his feelings but instead expresses them in a healthy manner.

So do slaves and vanillas.

quote:

A Master knows while pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

So do slaves and vanillas.

quote:

To avoid causing suffering in himself and others, a Master remains in control of his ego even when he indulges it.

So do slaves and vanillas.

quote:

A Master does not accept the service of a slave casually and does not take the responsibility of mastering a slave lightly.

Hmmmm masters accept service casually, if we're talking a slave getting them a cup of juice or a blow job. Taking responsibility for a slave is another matter.

quote:

A Master accepts his slaves body and trust with gratitude, and takes neither for granted.

Uhh I LIKE being taken for granted.

quote:

A Master understands the importance and value of discipline and protocol; he develops discipline for himself and a protocol for his slave that is both nurturing and nourishing.

Ummm lots of doms don't have protocol, including the Owner.

quote:

A Master possesses and uses healthy and functional communication skills and insists his slave does as well.

So does everyone in a functioning relationships.

quote:

A Master is willing to stand in the middle of his slaves projections about the Master without moving, neither fostering nor supporting the illusion, nor destroying it.

I have no idea what this means. That the master will just let his slave continue to think false things about him?

quote:

A Master is willing to hear, witout complaint, or self pity, the awareness that doing his best may, at times, not be good enough.

Wow, and who is deciding what's not good enough?

quote:

A Master is willing to admit his mistakes, acknowledge his shortcomings and makes amends whenever possible.

So do vanillas and slaves.

Your list is a nifty one if it were titled "Traits of a self-aware and ideally self-actualized person"

But a pretty bad one titled as it is.

Sure, lots of masters are great guys, but they almost all have their weaknesses. Perhaps this was meant as a "to work for" list, not a checklist. Some doms and masters ARE assholes, they ARE dorks. You can be a dominant, you can own a slave AND still be a really annoying dumbass.

And, as usual, no list of traits will work for a generalized group of people. Masters really are just like everyone else who happen to be oriented to Ms relationships.

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 2

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 6:00:18 AM

Synocense

Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline

LOL I *knew* one of the first posts would be one saying "so do vanilla..." - the fact is, I am not talking about vanilla relationships, I am talking about M/s relationships. I am not talking about the qualities of a 'good man' even though many of these listed would fit in both catagories.

Thank you for your imput, emerald, this is exactly what I was hoping for. Especially when you said you LIKE being taken for granted.

In answer to your questions, it is my understanding that by saying, "A Master is willing to stand in the middle of his slaves projections about the Master without moving, neither fostering nor supporting the illusion, nor destroying it" he means in the midst of it he will not turn his back and refuse to listen just because it may be negative things about him.
No, it doesnt mean nothing will be done about it.

"A Master is willing to hear, witout complaint, or self pity, the awareness that doing his best may, at times, not be good enough."

Quote: Wow, and who is deciding what's not good enough?

He is.

Syn

_____________________________

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence?

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 3

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 6:05:23 AM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

I dunno, Syn....this list would be wonderful for those who aspire to that sort of thing and for those who are seeking those things in an Owner. I just don't think its so easy as all that because as individuals, different things are important to each of us. I mean...who wants to be owned by Ghandi anyway?

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 4

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 6:11:07 AM

Synocense

Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline

Ok, i didnt clarify, but I will try to now. I apologise. This isn't a checklist and it is not to say that these qualities in a Master are the only ones that make a good Master. Master Skip may be saying that, but I am not. Clearly emerald has a different list of qualities that make up a good Master for her. I posted these as a way of generating some thought and discussion. So far, so good.

Thank you,
Syn

_____________________________

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence?

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 5

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 7:09:00 AM

MistressFire70

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Master Skip is a wonderful man. My only change to his list would be to subsitute third person for the male first person. This is so these qualities apply to those of us who are not male, but identify as Master.

If you ever have a chance to hear him talk, go. He'll be at Together in Leather in Charolotte, NC in October and is a core instructor for APEX's Butchmanns Experience. Both are amazing events.

http://togetherinleather.org/
http://www.arizonapowerexchange.org/academy/index.htm

(Master) Fire

_____________________________

you have come to a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 6

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 7:52:24 AM

Synocense

Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline

In response to that, Yesss. I was captivated - almost entranced - by his seminar and his slave did nothing less for me. Amazing people. It was an experience I won't forget.

I think this list could be changed in certain ways to fit any dominant person in search of knowledge of a M/s relationship. I also very much like the fact that what is expected is no more or less than what is expected of the slave too. But that's another list .....

Thank you,
Syn

_____________________________

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence?

(in reply to MistressFire70)

Post #: 7

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 8:00:50 AM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

This seems an overly romanticized version.

There are also pragmatic Masters who simply see to their own self interests by keeping their property content and performing at peak efficiency.

They don't need the fluffy castle realm nonsense to accomplish this,and don't waste precious hours with navel gazing.

They simply use intelligence and common sense to get the job done.

The example you use seems almost obsessively neurotic in it's constant need for self and external validation.

The Very best Masters have moved beyond these insecurities,and simply ARE.

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 8

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 8:07:22 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Synocense
I think this list could be changed in certain ways to fit any dominant person in search of knowledge of a M/s relationship.

As I said before, it fits with any "self aware spiritually inclined human in a relationship"

quote:

I also very much like the fact that what is expected is no more or less than what is expected of the slave too. But that's another list .....

Thank you,
Syn

Why wouldn't there be? The positions themselves are extremely different and by their definitions require very different things, so obviously there SHOULD be very different expectations on each. As for more or less, all relationships take work and effort, no matter what type. In my relationship with the Owner, I have more expectations in some areas and less in others. But I have very different expectations on my behavior and progress than the Owner does on his. I wouldn't want it to be the same.

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 9

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 8:08:42 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

My reaction to this list of virtues was negative - I think it reflects a common error: confusing leadership (or a suite of virtues) with a psycho-sexual orientation.

-I can certainly see why a person who wants to be owned might look for certain qualities in the prospective owner, or appreciate a suite of virtues in their owner, but that suite of virtues, that checklist of qualities is complementary to the psycho-sexual orientation, not the thing in an of itself.

I can think of two Masters in effective M/s realtionships who are unsavory, unethical devils. They are also effective as hell at this - they have the emotional and psychological toolset to completely own a woman in a way she finds enthralling.

I know a ton of guys with a laundry list of virtues or admirable qualities (many of them pretty close to what you describe) who couldn't master a ham sandwhich.

This is psycho-sexuality, not the first couple books of the Ethica.

-Some parts of that list are ridiculous: "To avoid causing suffering in himself and others, a Master remains in control of his ego even when he indulges it."

That's claptrap. "Remains in control in control of his ego even while he indulges in it??" I'd pan a movie that had dialogue like that.

-I agree with ES2. There is no utility, no increase in understanding or wisdom in saying again and again something in the particular that is universally true in the general.

Why bother talking about "What a Master is?" is when everything said can be applied to any class? Isn't the point of "A Master is..." to articulate what distinguishes a Master, vice repeating things I could safely say about anyone?

Simply put: This isn't a list of the qualities of a Master. It is one person's list of virtues they would seek in a partner.

(in reply to MistressFire70)

Post #: 10

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 8:37:26 AM

SophiaBelle

Posts: 38
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

I don't see anything wrong with it being an "overly romanticized" version. I feel that, though the exact words are not ones I would use, the general feeling and intent of those words are similar to how I feel "ideally" (for me) a good master would be.

And just as you feel the need to invalidate how I, and others, would like our relations to be, I would like to point out that I very much doubt that a person -almost any person- can move beyond their insecurities. These are inheirant to people.

I am not sure how a Master can "simply be." Are you saying that they have qualities that have majestically formed to make them perfect? Or are you saying they worked hard at themselves, and now no longer need improvement? Or, different yet, are you saying there are people who are born to be masters and thus Are?

Your post confuses me a little, and though I don't find it offensive (yoga does wonders for my mindset) I find it odd- and slightly abrasive.

(in reply to Gemeni)

Post #: 11

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 8:49:50 AM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline

A list that many can "aspire" to.
And I hope that when i do find that "one sub" that I will be considered that worthy of her gift.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 12

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 9:16:41 AM

Synocense

Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline

Gemini,

You have made me wonder if this isn't the difference between someone who considers themself spiritual and someone who "just is" .... interesting.

Syn

_____________________________

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence?

(in reply to Gemeni)

Post #: 13

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 9:29:40 AM

Synocense

Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

-Some parts of that list are ridiculous: "To avoid causing suffering in himself and others, a Master remains in control of his ego even when he indulges it."

That's claptrap. "Remains in control in control of his ego even while he indulges in it??" I'd pan a movie that had dialogue like that.

To fully understand maybe you would have had to be controlled by someone who, when given power, allows his ego to rule. It can get ugly ugly.

Respectfully,
Syn

_____________________________

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence?

(in reply to SophiaBelle)

Post #: 14

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 9:40:36 AM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

If ones feels the need to validate one's desire for control with all sorts of ethical clap trap.........rather than just having a basic understanding that you do the right thing because it WORKS..........

I would find the motivations and mental gymnastics to be quite a bit more questionable overall.

If one needs to find excuses to Dominate, something is seriously wrong with doing it at all.

Can you say "conflicted"?

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 15

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 9:57:41 AM

SophiaBelle

Posts: 38
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

I'm not saying one needs an excuse to dominate/submit- I was simply saying that I felt like you called what I would like in a D/s relationship silly, thus invalidating. Though it is difficult, you can disagree with invalidating people, it requires acknowledging that they have every right to feel how they do- and that they are not wrong for feeling how they do- however, you do not feel the way they do.

Maybe I simply misunderstood you, if that was the case, I apologize.

Notably, some of us do need to validate ourselves- especially if we were raised in ways that do not coincide with what we are doing now. Honestly- I have to validate myself in just about everything. I acknowledge that this is because I am young- experiencing a period of growth and exploration. I am insecure and learning, and more than well aware of that. Worse yet, sometimes I seek validation from others- which I have come to realize is self destructive, I should only seek my own approval.

I think we/I have gotten off track. I don't think there is anything wrong with the list. Per se, I don't know if it is exactly what I would desire, as stated above, but I stand by that the "feeling" and "essence" of that kind of master is a good one to -me- in particular. If it does not meet anyone else's needs, this is fine. Also, when I read the list, I think of what the "ideal" and almost stereotypical "good" master would be.

(in reply to Gemeni)

Post #: 16

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 10:17:02 AM

MaitresseEden

Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline

I think you can just as easily substitute the words "Mature adult" for the word Master.

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 17

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 10:18:22 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SophiaBelle
I think we/I have gotten off track. I don't think there is anything wrong with the list. Per se, I don't know if it is exactly what I would desire, as stated above, but I stand by that the "feeling" and "essence" of that kind of master is a good one to -me- in particular. If it does not meet anyone else's needs, this is fine. Also, when I read the list, I think of what the "ideal" and almost stereotypical "good" master would be.

That's it though - the problem isn't in the so much in the list as a list of desired qualities. If a given list of qualities is what floats your boat - well of course then great. You want what you want

The problem isn't in the list per se, but in presenting the list as having some insight into what a Master is. A laundry list of "what X likes in a partner" tells us a lot about "X's" values - it tells us nothing about M/s.

(in reply to SophiaBelle)

Post #: 18

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 10:30:02 AM

MstrK

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/4/2005
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I have just read this "article" and the responces. I'm not sure what is ment by being spirtually awake. Are you talking about knowing yourself, your environment, and all the other areas that phsycology gets into or something else?

As for the list of qualities, I think any person, of sound mind, would like to see most of them in a partner, friend, or other relationship. I think most of them, the exception is being taken for granted, are qualities we all look for whether in a submissive, slave, dom or master.

That's my opinion any-ways.

_____________________________

MstrK
"here there be pirates.........growing older, but not up" Jimmy Buffett

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 19

RE: Qualities of a Master - 7/8/2005 11:04:15 AM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

Synocense, thanks for posting such an interesting essay. It has indeed generated some food for thought. As I read it, I nodded my head at almost every line in an "of course" kind of way. Seeing the critical responses has been educational.
My personal POV is somewhat of a synthesis of positions that others have proffered. I am who and what I am simply because it is what fulfills me. OTOH, because of my personal beliefs, there are internal compromises I decline to make for the sake of expediency. I do take the time to engage in "naval-gazing" when a situation arises that puts my values and desires into direct opposition.
I do aspire to be be uncompromising in my integrity, even when it's costly to maintain. For some that may be a non-issue. For myself, at times, the temptation can be almost overwhelming. I have to work at being completely honest, trustworthy and consistent. I do the right thing because I know it's right but it's still difficult sometimes.
I do agree that many, if not most, of the qualities listed can and probably should apply to anyone, regardless of their dynamic. My personal opinion, though, is that my responsibility to toy requires me to to rise above the obstacles in my path and be true to myself and my values by embodying the ideals I believe in. As master/dominant/owner, I don't get to have an off-day. I don't have that luxury because our agreement, and my own standards, hold me to higher expectations. For me, this is what I signed up for, who I am and who I want to be.
In summary, I would say that, for me, it's right on the money.
Timothy

< Message edited by domtimothy46176 -- 7/8/2005 11:07:56 AM >

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 20

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