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Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/8/2005 5:34:08 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		OK first off, abuse is wrong. Abuse is devastating, abuse is evil, abuse comes from fear and insecurity and should be prevented as much as possible. That's clear.

With bdsm LOOKING so much like abuse in some respects it can be difficult for some to tell the difference- verbal humiliation in one situation might be just a hot scene, and in another situation might be abusively degrading. This is especially difficult to judge for anyone not IN the situation themselves.

However a scary trend I have noted increasingly lately is the overuse of "abuse" to label (almost always a dom) as abusive or wrong. If a sub comes around worried and complaining about something the dom did, it's very likely that someone will pop up and say "hey, that sounds abusive, get out!"

I have been told the Owner is abusive for so many things- including the fact that he makes me sleep on the floor sometimes. On a group list I was on awhile ago, a girl swore up and down that she had even been raped throught instant messages and was thus traumatized and a rape victim!

This is absolutely ridiculous mostly because it detracts from the severity and true impact of ACTUAL abusive situations out there. A dom is not abusive just because he doesn't treat his slave like a queen, or just because you have a fight. The other side is that it perpetuates the concept that doms are like wild beasts with their desires barely kept in check by a system of limits and safewords, and it leaves the definition of abuse SOLELY within the other persons perspective.

I understand our desire to be safe rather than sorry, and I believe all intentions are well meant to keep people safe and from harm. But I think we all need to start checking ourselves before we throw out the "A" word. What are we saying? Do we have real support for that idea? Calling someone an abuser and someone else a victim of abuse can have a large emotional impact on them.

Abuse is wrong and it should be taken seriously, not thrown around like a hot buzz word.
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/8/2005 5:36:55 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


On a group list I was on awhile ago, a girl swore up and down that she had even been raped throught instant messages and was thus traumatized and a rape victim!





How can you be raped though instand messages?

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/8/2005 5:48:37 AM   
stormsfate


Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

However a scary trend I have noted increasingly lately is the overuse of "abuse" to label (almost always a dom) as abusive or wrong. If a sub comes around worried and complaining about something the dom did, it's very likely that someone will pop up and say "hey, that sounds abusive, get out!"


Amen! Abuse *is* a horrible thing, but when the term is so loosely used that every two paragraph post on an internet message board in which the OP is not living in a fantasy land and is actually having to deal with real life relationship issues is responded to with "that's abuse", then I feel the impact of the term "abuse" is diluted. I wish people wouldn't be so quick to jump on the bandwagon with this one.


f

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/8/2005 12:12:39 PM   
SteelBondager


Posts: 86
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline 		I had a slave serve party guests from a Friday afternoon until 3am Sunday. For 36 hours, she served food and drinks to people with cheap plastic whips that didn't do much damage, but hurt like hell. Then, she slept in a cold cage by the front door with no blankets or pillow. It was winter and there were occasional blasts of cold as people came and went.

Abuse right?

On Sunday night she laid with me in my bed and told me how much she appreciated the contrast:

House filled with people, working hard, pain, no rest, then barely sleep naked, cold and exposed.

vs.

House empty, work finished, resting alone in my warmth with pillows, sheets and blankets - comfort and security.



< Message edited by SteelBondager -- 7/8/2005 12:16:46 PM >

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/8/2005 1:55:13 PM   
Gemeni


Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		One person's "abuse" is another's dream come true.

Let's not forget that context and desire mean everything. It's only abuse if one of the parties involved feel so.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/8/2005 1:56:39 PM   
bottominwa


Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Abuse...another one of my favorite topics.

With the bombardry of shows like Dr. Phil everyone thinks they are a psychoanalyst these days.

In my limited opinion abuse in Our lifestyle is prevalent, but so is Discipline. The key difference between which is which...as i have seen it played out in a number of groups and Houses is the intent of the Dom at interaction, and the Dom's mental state.

IE: i have been punished by my Owner, but i have never been struck...struck to me constitutes something done out of anger, or at a time in which the Dom is "out of control"..in example: drunk, irrate, etc. Punishment is done from an intent of correcting negative behaviour. And i have been punished severely, but not without first being told why i was being punished...and my Owner was never "out of control" when doing so. An example of abuse would be your drunk Owner beats the shit out of you for pure sport. Again here W/we are referring to consenting adults...in which case if you give your consent to be freely "beaten" whenever your drunken Dom sees fit...then hey, it ain't abuse...it's a contractual agreement.

There are those who do use the guise of M/s to be abusive...and many times on here W/we have tossed around the moral implications as a bystander as to what one is to do when one sees this happening. These people tend to ruin it for all of U/us however by making people new to the lifestyle gun shy, and by leaving a legal trail associated to the lifestyle that is detrimental to Our collective civil liberties.

Sidenote: In college i was raped, by the Spokane serial rapist...now behind bars...who left a number of girls...most of us joggers, to die along the Spokane River after we were '"raped". Whomever said they were raped in a messenger is so blatantly offensive to me i could beat the shit out of them myself right now.

Why do people long to be victims so much? What a weird world W/we live in.

sabrina King

House of King

< Message edited by bottominwa -- 7/8/2005 2:00:02 PM >

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/8/2005 2:03:49 PM   
Gemeni


Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am sorry to hear about the rape Sabrina,no punishment can be enough for that man.

I also wonder at the needless drama created by people who can easily hit the x in the screen corner. Makes no sense to me.

(in reply to bottominwa)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/8/2005 2:19:39 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

But I think we all need to start checking ourselves before we throw out the "A" word.

Brilliant post Em. And so far, amazing responses. I’m all for people being more aware of their word usage in general!

I engage in consensual S&M, at times within a top/bottom context where there is little to no D/s. And I have had people in the D/s world refer to what I do as abusive. Verbal humiliation is another one! My boy had a father who humiliated him, his brother and his mother verbally. I’m not an idiot! I didn’t jump in with it right away… but over time, I turned his non-consensual, abusive pattern into a consensual, non-abusive activity that we both get off on. Yet, on these very boards, I read so often people saying “I would never verbally humiliate my sub as I wouldn’t abuse her/him”.

Sabrina made an excellent point. Abuse is misuse, it’s maltreatment, it’s contempt, it’s harmful. Discipline has the goal of helping someone better themselves. I'm going to be putting this in my tag line I think: It's not the actions, it's the intent behind them.

quote:

Calling someone an abuser and someone else a victim of abuse can have a large emotional impact on them.


And how! I am neither a psychologist nor any kind of therapist. I have however interacted with them when dealing with an abuse issue of my own. The wisest thing a psychologist told me was (and I paraphrase) “As long as you see yourself as a victim, you will be a victim. When you chose to no longer be a victim, you will be freed from all those feelings of shame and guilt”. She was right on.

Therefore telling people that they are victims, without knowing all the facts, could lead to them taking on shame and guilt feelings that they might not have had a priori. Instead of helping, one may be in fact hurting.


Sidebar: It all boils down to “think before you speak”.
I always said online communication helped me develop this capacity because I could put the words out there and I had a moment to think about whether or not it was really want I wanted to say before I pressed enter/ok/submit. We should all take advantage of that luxury.

- LA

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/8/2005 6:06:39 PM   
mossy


Posts: 189
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline
But I think we all need to start checking ourselves before we throw out the "A" word.
Brilliant post Em. And so far, amazing responses. I’m all for people being more aware of their word usage in general!
Sidebar: It all boils down to “think before you speak”.
Therefore telling people that they are victims, without knowing all the facts, could lead to them taking on shame and guilt feelings that they might not have had a priori. Instead of helping, one may be in fact hurting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the thread "demoralized" i hope my post there did not hurt the person that started the thread. It's very true, sometimes in trying to help we hurt. i learned a valuable lesson from all of You, to make sure there isn't a "next time". my post had to be/was edited, for several important reasons, which many of You brought to my attention:)
Thank You Angelika very much for all You said,Thank You to All of You.....
Speaking on"others" is something i rather not do right now. i will leave counsel to those who have been around longer, i feel You are much better equipped.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/9/2005 4:30:35 AM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		Excellent post EmeraldSlave2 and so right on the mark. There is a world of difference between abuse and consentual play and labelling everything abuse merely devalues the word and the horrors of being abused. Surely, if a submissive complains of improper behaviour, she or he can be told the behaviour is wrong or improper without anyone having to label it abuse.

It takes years and much hard work to even start to recover from living with abuse or rape and to have someone who is soley on-line parade around announcing that either has happened to them on-line pushs My buttons.

Gentle Lady

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/9/2005 4:34:24 AM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		LadyAngelika

I am a professional and have worked with abused men and women for the last decade or so. What you were told is so very true. As long as you see yourself as a victim you will be...and history will continue to repeat itself. Label yourself a survivor and feel how strong you can get. My congratulations on the counsellors you have found (as per other posts of yours). Not everyone finds good counsellors.

Gentle Lady

< Message edited by GentleLady -- 7/11/2005 3:14:20 AM >

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/9/2005 8:34:06 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		To be quite honest GL, most of it was very informal. I have seen a therapist twice, at 17 and 24 and never more then 6 sessions each. I tend to not open up much, so I use them to get kick started then I do the rest of the work myself.

The advice in question however was given to me by a friend of mine who is a therapist. Thought it was not in a therapy session. It was over a nice bottle of Chianti ;)

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 7/9/2005 8:35:21 AM >

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/10/2005 8:07:38 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		That is the right way to use a therapist. A lesson that is handed to you changes nothing. Something you figure out for yourself (given the right questions or the right bits of information) has value and you learn from it.

Gentle Lady

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All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/10/2005 9:05:45 PM   
slatyb


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bottominwa

Why do people long to be victims so much? What a weird world W/we live in.



Because it absolves them of responsibility for their behavior.

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/10/2005 9:07:31 PM   
slatyb


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

To be quite honest GL, most of it was very informal. I have seen a therapist twice, at 17 and 24 and never more then 6 sessions each. I tend to not open up much, so I use them to get kick started then I do the rest of the work myself.



If one sees a therapist, can one still be a "Real Dom/me" ?

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/10/2005 9:47:39 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slatyb

If one sees a therapist, can one still be a "Real Dom/me" ?


What's a "Real Dom/me"?


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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 2:17:42 AM   
Youcantmakemeeee


Posts: 36
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I understand our desire to be safe rather than sorry, and I believe all intentions are well meant to keep people safe and from harm. But I think we all need to start checking ourselves before we throw out the "A" word. What are we saying? Do we have real support for that idea? Calling someone an abuser and someone else a victim of abuse can have a large emotional impact on them.

Abuse is wrong and it should be taken seriously, not thrown around like a hot buzz word.


I've only been on this site for a few days, and yet I've seen many threads wherein someone is complaining about a Dom/Master. So many of the responses to that original post is someone calling it abuse or atleast implying that it is. We are all too quick to throw around that word when we see someone in obvious distress. I think it's natural to be concerned, considering what could be at stake in such a relationship, but we are quick to judge. I've done it, and I've known others who typically have a good solid grasp on reading between the lines do it as well. So, I agree with you Emerald, and I'm very glad to see this subject brought up!

C.

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 2:52:20 AM   
FuriousAngel


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		I am left to wonder if the fairy tale concept of what D/s 'should' and or 'is' that runs rampant in chat rooms, sites, advice columns, etc. play any factor in the overuse of 'abuse'? Every corner you turn both Dominants and submissives are painting images of how/what a 'real' Dominant should be. The 'ideal' Dominant should stop at nothing short of being a picture of perfection that would make Superman hang his head in shame. There is no room for error and should they take one small step outside that fairy tale image people scream foul. It goes something like this:

Mr. Perfect Dom arrives on his stallion, cape flowing in the wind and his submissive swoons at the sight of him. A gentle breeze causes her silks to carass her skin as she reaches for the rose he brought her (Give me a break! It's the D/s fairy tale, right?) He extends his strong arms offers her a rose. In her in excitement to receive his offering she sticks her finger on a thorn and blood is drawn. A look of apprehension crosses her face as she ponders all she's 'learned' in the lifestyle. Warning bells sound as her Dominant just *Gasp* caused her 'harm'. Against her 'better judgement' she allows him to help her atop the steed so he can whisk her off through fluffy clouds to arrive at their castle in the sky. But it's a cold, cruel world out there so Mr. Perfect Dom is trying to lead the stallion, shelter her from the elements, spoon feed her so she's not hungry and of course, all the while is waving his sword around to ward off the evil forces encountered enroute. Of course, being the 'perfect Dom' he must also pull her across his knee for an erotic spanking along the way. Oops! The terrain is rocky and Mr. Dom only has two hands so lil submissive falls to the ground, twisting an ankle.

This can't be right? She's supposed to be forever safe with her Dominant? Trembling in fear she scurries away to seek refuge at home where she immediately runs online to 'discuss' the incident and concerns. All who hear her story confirm what she's already known! He's no Dom! He's an abuser! Any 'real' Dominant would not have allowed that to happen to his submissve. Get away from him as fast as you can! That vile person is nothing more than a mere human being! The nerve! The odacity! The heroic ('real') Dominants begin rounding up the troops to track down the poser and give him the thrashing of his life! The 'real' submissives attend to their 'sister' offering jelly beans as they help her out of her tattered silks and into some fuzzy pink jammies. The curtain falls with all the story writers sighing in exasperation of what their precious 'lifestyle' is coming to and shaking their heads about how yet another poor submissives has fallen victim to a 'fake'. The 'player' is banished and six months later, that 'poor submissive' is offering another 'abused sister' jelly beans and sharing her own story of 'abuse'.

Okay! So the story is far fetched but I'm sure people can grasp the idea? The fairy tale cycle continues leaving so much room for 'abuse' to unfold. A sick Dominant sneezes causing his submissive to catch cold, and the 'subby network' comes alive with whispered warnings of the 'abuser' amongst them! What I find interesting is that I have observed that the majority of the abuse analyzations and accusations are preached from the 'Dominants' themselves. Perhaps in the efforts of others to keep submissives safe, it gets taken too far and creates unrealistic ideals of what a Dominant should be? It appears to me, that if a submissive experiences even one iota of discomfort or unpleasantry during the relationship, her Dominant is an 'abuser'. As long as this fairy tale image of Dominants is passed down the line, it's no surprise to me that accusations of abuse run rampant in D/s.

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 3:25:41 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slatyb

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

To be quite honest GL, most of it was very informal. I have seen a therapist twice, at 17 and 24 and never more then 6 sessions each. I tend to not open up much, so I use them to get kick started then I do the rest of the work myself.



If one sees a therapist, can one still be a "Real Dom/me" ?


I have no clue slatyb. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not a "Real Domme".

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 4:58:30 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slatyb

If one sees a therapist, can one still be a "Real Dom/me" ?


A huge majority of people seeing therapists are normal well functioning people who are just dealing and working with issues. Why would seeing a therapist call someone's dominant orientation or abilities into question?

(in reply to slatyb)
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