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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 5:00:00 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FuriousAngel
Okay! So the story is far fetched but I'm sure people can grasp the idea?

Not all that far-fetched, you see it happen even on these forums.

Sadly what often happens is either cliques of "protection" form up, or a sub gets disillusioned and upset that the scene isn't what she imagined it to be and either turns really cynical and demanding or dramatically leaves the scene "forever."

(in reply to FuriousAngel)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 5:44:20 AM   
domtimothy46176


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I think you've hit thenail on the head, FuriousAngel. It seems to me that many subscribe to the fantasy that D/s somehow supercedes reality, perhaps existing in an alternate dimension where the mundane never intrudes. You see evidence of this mindset in many who don't appear to grasp that a D/s, M/s or O/p dynamic is still a relationship between two fallible human beings and must, therefore be approached with the same precautions as any other relationship.
Communication is supposed to miraculously be freed of misunderstanding and the everyday stresses of juggling work and family commitments is supposed to magically evaporate, lol. OTOH, it does make it easier to weed out those with unrealistic expectations.
Of course these are just my thoughts and I am only too willing to label myself as yet another flawed mortal.
Timothy

(in reply to FuriousAngel)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 5:59:58 AM   
slavedesires


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Those (of us) who label a sadistic dom abusers without really meeting them, i think do so out of fear because of the generlized perspections and misconceptions within the BDSM scene as a whole.
Before becoming His, i played/scened with 2 doms who were sadistic, why? cause i wanted to know if i was a masochist, of any sort. I was exploring and wanted to know for myself.
One was just a bully guy who wanted to vent his dom issues out on me.
The other was not into such issues and could use his sadistic techniques tailored to a girl.

I think, most non masochistic girls have a general impression about sadism and abuse, many times only becasue they are ill informed.
Some subs NEED SM for some deep emotional need because they were abused (and may or may not suffer PTSD) but seek it out.
Other women who do not need SM, see sadists as abusers only becasue of their past.

What we all need to realize is that what one word means to one person, doesnt mean the same thing to another.

~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 9:10:20 AM   
pleasureforHim


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A person would have to e living in a shed in the woods not to know abusive men cloak themselves as "Doms" or "Masters" and troll BDSM sites for subbies and slaves on the theory that we are stupid and gullable and easy marks. i personally have spoken to women who have been put in the emergency room -- safe words were completely disregarded -- and local district attorneys would not prosecute because they did not think a jury could grasp the concept that a woman could consent to being tied to a bed and tickled, and not consent to being chained to a radiator for three days and beaten with chains. Other women with such severe injuries worried about being "outted" to their families -- especially since they just made a collasal mistake and allowed an abuser to isolate and wound them.

i have preached, over and over, that women -- and men, for that matter -- need to take adequate safety precautions when meeting someone in real life whom they first contacted on the internet. Such safety measures begin before the meeting. Getting a picture of his driver's license. Setting up safe calls. Meeting in a public place. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY -- not having sex/playing with him -- on the first meeting. The reason this matters is that the woman should NOT BE ALONE with him on the first meeting; he has not built up enough trust as yet. So check your hormones at the door.

Everyone diverges from this rule, once in awhile, whether from loneliness or because they feel a "click". If that happens, give the hotel name and address and room number to your safe call person and tell him/her when you can be disturbed again....say at 8am the next morning.

Finally, trust your instincts. If you begin to feel fear, get away any way you can; who the hell cares if you are naked or left your purse? Run to the hotel office and ask for help. Be a survivor.

BTW -- i have Sadist friends; good men who have taught me some of what They do. They take great care -- and long periods of time -- to move a woman into a place where a pain triggers an erotic response. They are extremely concerned with safety and with a woman's pleasure, and would NEVER move past a woman's erotic responses. They do contact women who display some masocistic tendencies in their profiles but in general, They are as turned of by pain sluts as my other Dom and Master friends. They seek a woman who is open-minded and otherwise well-matched to Them...and Their searches are as difficult as any other Dom's or Master's.

pleasureforHim


< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/11/2005 9:21:29 AM >

(in reply to slavedesires)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 9:18:42 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim
i have preached, over and over, that women -- and men, for that matter -- need to take adequate safety precautions when meeting someone in real life whom they first contacted on the internet. Such safety measures begin before the meeting. Getting a picture of his driver's license. Setting up safe calls. Meeting in a public place. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY -- not having sex/playing with him -- on the first meeting. The reason this matters is that the woman should NOT BE ALONE with him on the first meeting; he has not built up enough trust as yet. So check your hormones at the door.

Hmm not sure how this turned into over-using and diluting abuse into dealing with actual abuse and safe first meetings.


(in reply to pleasureforHim)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 11:53:51 AM   
SteelBondager


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The Mirriam-Webster Legal Dictionary has this definition of abuse:

"To put to a use other than the one intended"

This sums it up for me. The intended use is whatever I decided with her before we started. When I top someone, the intended use is whatever we decided for that scene. If I'm invited into a scene, I follow the lead of the other top(s). The intended use for someone I own is whatever was decided during negotiation.

There's also the consideration of what I want to use her for. Do I want a demoralized, defeated person chained to a whipping post or do I want a willing, obedient slave? I have to make that decision before we even begin. I would make that decision with her.

If someone else lends me a slave for a period of time, I sometimes ask if I can throw him/her in a volcano. That usually leads to a quick discussion of limits.

I have my own mind and body to think of too. I won't betray my morals (like throwing someone in a volcano), even if it's allowed. I'm not going to invite her parents to dinner with her serving in a chain mail loin cloth. That would violate my morals as it would damage both her and her parents. In the process, I'd be damaged too.

_____________________________

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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/11/2005 10:17:59 PM   
slatyb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FuriousAngel

I am left to wonder if the fairy tale concept of what D/s 'should' and or 'is' that runs rampant in chat rooms, sites, advice columns, etc. play any factor in the overuse of 'abuse'? Every corner you turn both Dominants and submissives are painting images of how/what a 'real' Dominant should be. The 'ideal' Dominant should stop at nothing short of being a picture of perfection that would make Superman hang his head in shame... There is no room for error and should they take one small step outside that fairy tale image people scream foul...



That was wonderful. Thank you. In the real world where most of us live, perfection is seldom found. The best one can hope for is someone who can admit their imperfection, accept responsibility for errors, and learn from them.

(in reply to FuriousAngel)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/12/2005 7:21:35 AM   
tinkJH


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I read a well written blog about abuse and slaves at one time. I thought it was actually pretty well written.





A copy of it :

Contrary to popular belief, a slave can be abused. Just because a slave is a slave does not make her any more or less of a person. As a person, one can be abused. This is only common sense. Far to many slaves believe that they can't be abused because they are willingly agreeing to the treatment. Well this is both correct and incorrect.

The ultimate definition of a slave is a person controlled by another person. As such the slave is said to have no limits except those the master choses. Well this is true in its most basic of situations but its also not true. A slave should not have limits except those imposed by a master. However the master who doesn't set limits, is not much of a master and is likely abusing his slave.

A master may get turned on by watching his slave pull a train of men. However the master that allows his slave to be used by 100 men at once, is not much of a master. Why? He is not setting good limits on his slave. He is not being masterful and making good decisions for his slave. Its very likely that his slave will come down with diseases and illnesses. Even protection being used is not going to help a great deal when 100 guys are fucking the slave.

If a slave is sleeping naked in a cage, or on the floor this is not abuse within and of itself. However has the master ensured she has the proper blankets required for such a thing? Has he ensured that if she is sleeping without blankets that he has adjusted the tempurature? A persons body tempurature taking a sudden change like when sleeping in the nude for countless weeks on end is a health concern. As such careful consideration needs to be taken t ensure the slave is not going to get sick, or have creepy bugs climbing on her.

The point boils down to, is the slave being cared for properly? Just because a slave has agreed to something, does not mean what she has agreed to isn't abuse. If the master is not ensuring that the slaves health and safety is in the utmost interest, then its abuse. This means reguardless of what the master wants, reguardless of how bad he wants it, and reguardless of how much or little it may or may not turn him on, if he is not thinking of his slave safety before his own desires, he is abusing his slave.

(in reply to slatyb)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/12/2005 7:28:57 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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First off, it's against copyright to post someone else's work without their permission to another forum unless it's a work for hire.

Secondly, thanks as this is an excellent example of what I was suggesting- that people go way too far in suggesting that what others do is "abuse" and therefore muddies the waters and reality of actual abuse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tinkJH
master that allows his slave to be used by 100 men at once, is not much of a master. Why? He is not setting good limits on his slave. He is not being masterful and making good decisions for his slave. Its very likely that his slave will come down with diseases and illnesses. Even protection being used is not going to help a great deal when 100 guys are fucking the slave.

Let me tell you, at this point in my life I've definitely been with over 100 men, and a lot more people altogether. I've never been abused and I don't have any diseases.

This person obviously doesn't know (or doesn't know that she knows) anyone who is a very sexually active person. See? The smear of saying this is "abusive" is completely off balance and based solely on someone's limited view of "healthy sex."

quote:


If a slave is sleeping naked in a cage, or on the floor this is not abuse within and of itself. However has the master ensured she has the proper blankets required for such a thing?

Blankets are required for sleeping?
quote:


Has he ensured that if she is sleeping without blankets that he has adjusted the tempurature? A persons body tempurature taking a sudden change like when sleeping in the nude for countless weeks on end is a health concern. As such careful consideration needs to be taken t ensure the slave is not going to get sick, or have creepy bugs climbing on her.

I agree, and this is no different than any situation a dominant would have his slave endure. But who cares about creepy bugs? A slave is going to call a dominant abusive because he let a roach on her body?

quote:

If the master is not ensuring that the slaves health and safety is in the utmost interest, then its abuse. This means reguardless of what the master wants, reguardless of how bad he wants it, and reguardless of how much or little it may or may not turn him on, if he is not thinking of his slave safety before his own desires, he is abusing his slave.

Agreed, but none of the examples given show anything close to abuse. They simply illustrate my point- we are turning doms who don't treat their slaves like delicate princesses into awful abusers. This leaves people who actually ARE abused lost in a sea of whiny princesses and loses the hard ugly reality that should be dealt with.

(in reply to tinkJH)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/12/2005 7:45:04 AM   
tinkJH


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I had permission to post it. :) That is why I did.


The article did not adress simple having had more then 100 partners. It addressed a Master/Mistress allowing many people, at one time, to sexually use the slave, how well the Master was able to protect the slave, by allowing this, from STD's or other illnesses. Someone not using a condom, broken condoms.. This comment was adressing to a website that the slave proclaimed her Master liked for others to use her. All the other needed do was contact her master and he would arrange for the person to visit her home, a hotel, or she could go to them, and her Master would not attend. That plainly, while maybe not directly abuse, can lead to it. Allowing others to use a slave is one thing - but setting it to a situation to where she is unsafe is abuse.

Also, the comment about sleeping. It wasnt about blankets and bugs. It was about the Master/Mistress assuring that proper conditions were met to how they were requiring the slave to sleep. This also addressed from the same site above, the woman claimed that she was forced to sleep on the cold, bare wooden floor with no allowance of a blanket or pillow. It might not be abuse, but its also not a proper treatment.

Yes, perhaps the examples weren't the greatest and perhaps poorly explained, especially since it didn't mention the site to which the author was refering to when writing this. But, the final statement of the article, I think, sums up the definition of slave abuse very well.

"If the master is not ensuring that the slaves health and safety is in the utmost interest, then its abuse. This means reguardless of what the master wants, reguardless of how bad he wants it, and reguardless of how much or little it may or may not turn him on, if he is not thinking of his slave safety before his own desires, he is abusing his slave."

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/12/2005 8:03:07 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tinkJH
Yes, perhaps the examples weren't the greatest and perhaps poorly explained, especially since it didn't mention the site to which the author was refering to when writing this. But, the final statement of the article, I think, sums up the definition of slave abuse very well.


I agree with both of those paragraphs, the examples given were awful examples and illustrate my point of "overuse of abuse."

(in reply to tinkJH)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/12/2005 10:19:15 AM   
Gemeni


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What often happens is that people make some really silly "straw man" arguments to show certain dynamics are "abusive" when it's something they don't like.(or understand)

To me,a slave is often used as an object. I'm considerate of overall health etc...but I don't care for fragile, picky "princesses". I'd be vanilla if I liked that sort of thing.

It's about personal preferences in the end.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Overuse of "Abuse" - 7/13/2005 11:40:03 AM   
SteelBondager


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Interestingly, the quoted blog post gives an example related to my first post on this thread. I didn't give my slave a blanket or pillow and left her to sleep in a chilly hallway with occasional blasts of cold, after nearly 48 hours sleep deprivation and 36 hours of pain and work. She thoroughly appreciated my use of her.

I also put a tarantula on a bottom who was terrified of spiders. She was naked and bound in a room full of people. We had negotiated the situation earlier that evening. She screamed terribly and scared the spider. I decided not to do it again for the spider's sake.

Later, still naked, she pet the spider and apologized to it for scaring it. She let it crawl all over her and lost her fear.

It wasn't a roach, but the best example I could think of at the moment.

I confess to tarantula abuse, though unintentional.

I've also done plenty of outdoor bondage. Usually a creepy crawly creeps and crawls his way into our scene. Once he does so, we consider him to be fair game. ;)

(By "negotiated", I actually mean "we persuaded her into it".)

< Message edited by SteelBondager -- 7/13/2005 11:42:17 AM >


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(in reply to Gemeni)
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