A Very Quirky Definition of Submission

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A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 2:50:01 PM

QuietDomuk

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Joined: 8/26/2007
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In a recent (and very brief) exchange of messages with a sub who will remain nameless.... I mailed her because her profile was I will allow this but not that some of that and all of that..... the conversation went like....

Dom - "lol.... talk about topping from the bottom!"

Sub - "bottoms always top"

Dom - "Yes they do but only if they are under a top not a Dom"

Sub - "Unless the sub is a complete idiot or a brainwashed person-she allows things to be done as opposed to letting people have carte blanche"

Dom - "Then you have never submitted..... merely played
what does the word "submit" mean? in a ssc scene, hard limits are agreed as is a safe word, then she TRUSTS me with her body, that is what submission means, what you are talking about is bottoming......"

Sub - "Not interested in your thoughts on what is and what is not-I allow myself to be punished, call it what you will"

At which point I sighed bemoaned the state of subs in this country and looked to see if I could filter my search for a different planet...

Now is it me or is it her..... your comments please
I will email her the url of this thread and she can read what YOU say
Is it me or is it her......

Post #: 1

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 2:52:45 PM

bandit25

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Joined: 6/18/2005
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Seems to me she was just stating what she would or would not do. Perhaps what she had in her profile were her hard limits. Maybe she had a lot of them. Just move on.

(in reply to QuietDomuk)

Post #: 2

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 2:55:24 PM

litleone8620

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Joined: 6/12/2006
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Niether you or her are right. But neither one of you are wrong.

Submission means whatever you want it to mean. Different people have different definitions of what the word means.

Be happily surprised if you find someone who agrees with yours.

_____________________________

He who laughs last didn't get the joke

We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?

(in reply to QuietDomuk)

Post #: 3

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 2:56:43 PM

AquaticSub

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietDomuk

Now is it me or is it her..... your comments please
I will email her the url of this thread and she can read what YOU say
Is it me or is it her......

You.

Your message was rude and had nothing nice to say. Exactly what were you hoping to accomplish? Whenever I get e-mails like that I just snark them with Valyraen and dismiss them as another idiot who thinks they can dictate how all submissives/slaves should behave. If you don't like someone's profile either ask them about it politely (being dominant doesn't excuse you from manners) or move on.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to QuietDomuk)

Post #: 4

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 2:59:07 PM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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Sub - "Unless the sub is a complete idiot or a brainwashed person-she allows things to be done as opposed to letting people have carte blanche"

I don't personally allow, i consent to submit to His will. He has carte blanche. I guess this makes me a complete idiot or brain washed in her mind.

Sub - "Not interested in your thoughts on what is and what is not-I allow myself to be punished, call it what you will"

If only i could not allow punishment lol.

I personally think it is her from the snippet of convo you have shown. She seems to be clinging on to not submitting fully, wanting to keep hold of some control.

Edited to add - have i misread this judging by other replies

< Message edited by missturbation -- 8/27/2007 3:01:13 PM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to QuietDomuk)

Post #: 5

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 2:59:30 PM

spankedbrat

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It's you.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 6

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 2:59:39 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietDomuk
Now is it me or is it her..... your comments please
I will email her the url of this thread and she can read what YOU say
Is it me or is it her......

Ummm....and we care about this because......??????

_____________________________

(in reply to QuietDomuk)

Post #: 7

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:01:54 PM

Carrianna

Posts: 273
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline

Sub does not mean she!!! A submissive is a male or female who chooses to be submissive and share that with others in what way they choose.

With regards to your post I understand the submissives point, if your submissive did not want to be there, your submissive could choose not to be.

Also typing a message is not the same as saying it, there are no mannerisms, facial expressions and no sound. Sometimes getting your point across to another is just not possible via a computer.

_____________________________

Selfishness must always be forgiven you know, because there is no hope of a cure. "Mansfield Park" J.Austen

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 8

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:02:11 PM

bandit25

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Um, what make you think she'd care what a bunch of internet people say?

(in reply to QuietDomuk)

Post #: 9

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:03:53 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

Niether you or her are right. But neither one of you are wrong.

Submission means whatever you want it to mean. Different people have different definitions of what the word means.

Be happily surprised if you find someone who agrees with yours.

That is beautifully written and better then I could come up with.

People are all different with different motivations, drives and on and on. What degree ones gives up or takes control or what one thinks what terms mean what or more often then not think are cooler is quite irrelevant.

Clearly the woman you talked to would be incapable of having a 24/7 significant power exchange relationship but that does not mean she could not have some type of submissive relationship and that does not make her right or wrong, good or bad or wise or ignorant. It just makes her what she is and for you that was not a fit.

The problem often is we want people to fit into limited amount of descriptions when the reality of it is that is impossible and does a disservice to everyone who explores this life regardless of the very experienced to the complete novices.

< Message edited by toservez -- 8/27/2007 3:04:48 PM >

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 10

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:06:26 PM

AquaticSub

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Carrianna

Sub does not mean she!!! A submissive is a male or female who chooses to be submissive and share that with others in what way they choose.

Right but the OP speaks of the other person in terms of female pronouns so my guess is that in this case the sub is a female.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Carrianna)

Post #: 11

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:06:39 PM

ChainsandFreedom

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Joined: 6/20/2007
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In my humble opionion, its you.

If you think two three-letter nouns, dom and sub, can encompass the entire range of sexual and personality predilictions of the human race while simultaniously retaining concrete similarities, you should really be giving dommes and sub's more credit as kinky individuals.

Which isn't to say other people don't feel the way you do-this person just didn't.
Dom and Sub, even top and bottom, arn't black and white.

I'd be interested to know what D/s scene's or subcultures or relations you've been exposed to where everyone's sexual predilictions are exactly the same.

I have a feeling two people with only a two or three hard limits between them are lacking in imagination and sexual creativity. I could be wrong there, its just my take on it.

Sure, probably some of the self-identified slaves get off on surrendering all control at letting a dom do what they want, but from what you wrote you wern't talking to a slave.

(in reply to QuietDomuk)

Post #: 12

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:08:45 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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That's the beauty of CONSENSUAL relationships- they allow all parties to decide exactly what relationships they will and will not be involved in.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ChainsandFreedom)

Post #: 13

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:24:04 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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I don't think you are quiet enough Sir, may I suggest a ball gag and a restraining order?

Anyone who has to negotiate the level of submission and thinks they can order a level 12 submissive off the menu must not have any real experience. So funny that with all the talk of mentoring and training there are morons out there who STILL then go from that to assuming that people just announce how submissive they will be. Where is the dominance? Where is the control? Where the hell is the fucking skill as a dominant?

I mean any dipshit can shout orders, hell a tape recorder can do it. Being dominant isn't about shouting orders, it isn't even about control in some sense. Being dominant is about being someone who inspires confidence and security, not with talk but by day in and day out showing that they know what they hell they are doing.

I listen to women talk about being bottoms and or slaves and that banter just flows in one ear and out the other. I know that the "bottom" under my care might become someone who others would see an amazingly devoted and obedient slave and the "slave" might be someone who I would reject as too much work and without much to offer.

One creates a submissive/slave out of someone by slowly blowing on the embers and nurturing that flame until it bursts into an inferno. You can't order up a real submissive, they blossom under the care and nurturing of someone who cares for them, who shows up for them, who remembers the little things and who provides a safe place for that submission to grow.

Anyway, the sort of idiocy expressed in the op just drives me fucking nuts.

(in reply to QuietDomuk)

Post #: 14

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:26:45 PM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
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Awwwww. Your friend was right. You are getting sappy, but that was a good sappy. And you redeemed it with the last line!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 15

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:27:41 PM

QuietDomuk

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Joined: 8/26/2007
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Clarify a few points....
Correct sub does not mean she, but in this case it just happened to be hence my use of the word

No that is the entire convo no editing was done.....

What she said in her profile - and this IS altered in wording but NOT in spirit to preserve her anonymity is
"I have specific likes in punishment"
Note punishment was her word not mine - I have an entirely diffent definition of punishment and it has no connection with the word "like" other that hurts like

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 16

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:29:33 PM

Gattina

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*Applauds*

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 17

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 3:32:13 PM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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I'm with you on this one. Punishment is not play and i definately do not like it. Thats not to say its not play for others though!

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to QuietDomuk)

Post #: 18

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 4:09:03 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

My opinion? It's you. If the two of you aren't compatible, you're a right proper prick for messaging her just to tell her how wrong she is.

Submission isn't an all-or-nothing type deal. Some people like all, some people like nothing, and the vast majoity of us fall somewhere on the middle of the spectrum. That's where compatibility comes in, and hat's why there are sites like these...otherwse any 'Dom/me" could date any "sub" and the only problem would be physical attraction. Some people want a 24/7 TPE, some want kinky stuff in the bedroom, some want kinky stuff in public, some want D/s but no s/m, some want s/m but no D/s, I could fill pages with different variations.

I do have a question for the OP though...you saidyou were going to send her an email with this thread. I assume that's because you thought most people would agree with you. If the overwhelming consensus is that you were either wrong or out of line, as it currently is, are you still going to send it to her with an apology for being such a rude jerk?

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 19

RE: A Very Quirky Definition of Submission - 8/27/2007 4:23:28 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

Also...to missturbation...you *do* allow punishment by consenting to it. Unless you're being held against your will in a basement somewhere. But in that case I don't think you would be given access to the internet :P

Punishment without consent = domestic abuse. Plain and simple. If you consent that your partner can punish you in any way, then that's what they can do. If you consent that your partner can punish you in any way EXCEPT spanking you with a wooden spoon, and they spank you with a wooden spoon, that's non-consensual abuse. If you consent that your partner can punish you by spanking you with a wooden spoon, and nothing else, then they do NOT have the right to slap you around under the guise of 'punishment' because that's non-consensual abuse....yeah I know this is repetitive.

I just feel like this is something I have to make very clear...if you CONSENT to a TPE that does NOT mean "he does whatever he wants and I have no control over it." That's a total misrepresentation. Consent to a TPE means "he does whatever he wants and I consent to it." It might not sound as 'glamourous' or 'special' but saying you have no control over any of it completely trivializes the fact that consent is what separates BDSM from abuse. And that's a pretty serious difference.

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 20

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