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RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 7:28:33 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goalie62
If you give a collar/your collar is accepted by a person who says she wants to be your sub, and that relationship ends, is the sub expected to return or allow you to formally remove the collar?

Traditionally that's the way of it- since it's always YOUR collar, she has no claims to it once the relationship is over.

But that's just tradition, I still have some collars given to me.
quote:


If she doesn't want to let you remove it or just return it to you and she continues to wear it, what does that mean within the lifestyle?

Nothing, other than she wants to keep wearing it.  You aren't under any obligation.  I will occasionally wear an old collar just because it looks perfect with an outfit I'm wearing.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to goalie62)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 8:01:26 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		If she says she never wants you to darken her door again yet keeps the collar, no she isn't still submissive to you. And I wouldn't suggest you planning a rape scene because she would call the cops.

She may just be used to the feel of it around her neck. She may not yet be ready to remove it because she hasn't finished mourning the death of the dream she had of the relationship. She may still be wearing it because she doesn't get hit on if she wears it and she isn't ready to start dating again.

Normally I'd suggest you ask her, but as she isn't talking to you, you will have to find closure yourself.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 8:22:10 AM   
Exar


Posts: 1
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		Philosophically, I'd say that if one was in an Owner/owned relationship than a slave cannot have property that is not yours.  Therefore the slave would never hold property rights to the collar.  From this standpoint, I do not see any correlation between a slave's collar being earned and salary paid for a nilla job.  It is closer to the traditional way of ending an engagement, the ring is returned.

If I am ever lucky enough to collar a sub, I will make it known to her that if the relationship ends I would like the collar back.  This would be stated up front and before she is collared.  I would prefer a formal de-collaring to signify the end of O/ownership so W/we both could move on.  W/we both would've entered into the relationship with dreams of how it would go, and W/we BOTH need to mourn those dreams.  So in a perfect world/situation this ceremony would take place.

However, it is not always a perfect world...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

If she says she never wants you to darken her door again yet keeps the collar, no she isn't still submissive to you. And I wouldn't suggest you planning a rape scene because she would call the cops.



And so from a practical, real-world standpoint this is something to bear in mind.  Legally speaking a slave is not your property.  Once she wants out, she is free to leave.  And while the collar may mean certain things to you, and you let your feelings known up front, if she wants to be a bitch and take the collar knowing all of this ahead of time...it is wise to just let it go.

At the end of the relationship, it is best to be open to whatever comes your way and adopt a Rolling Stones lyric as your mantra:
"You don't always get what you want..."

M. Exar

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 8:38:21 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		If the sentiment behind  accepting the collar is gone, it becomes an object...

It is up to the recipient to decide if they want to keep it as a gift, a trophy, a parting shot, or if they want to return it or throw it away. 

Unless of course, you were thoughtful enough to wire it with remote controlled electronics before hand. 

(in reply to Exar)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 8:42:22 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Depends on the person.

Some women give engagement rings back when an engagement breaks up. Some don't. I offered the collar back to my ex when he left. He told me to keep it. It's a pretty collar and I like how it looks on my neck. So I still wear it and Valyraen will strap it around my neck during playtime. It just doesn't mean anything anymore. It's just a collar, not a symbol of ownership. Like an engagement ring becomes just a ring with some diamonds.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 8/31/2007 8:44:41 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to goalie62)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 9:02:39 AM   
kikinymph


Posts: 40
Joined: 8/19/2007
Status: offline 		There are some to whom a collar is a very important symbol.  The symbol of training, earned respect, love, comfort, safety, ect.  There are as many descriptions of what a collar can mean as there are people.  Some (many) will agree, and others will not.

I am both blessed and (wry grin chuckle) perhaps even cursed with being both married and collared to Sire.  Most days, I wear my engagement and wedding rings (unless I'm doing major cleaning, washing dishes, showering, or my hands are having a bad day).  Every day I wear my "daily" collar.  It is a simple sturdy chain (pretty much the same kind of chain that the soldiers use for their tags) with a master lock that has a small heart locket attached.  I have yet to run into a time where I do not wear it since it was placed on my neck... however, I'm sure, if it was not appropriate (maybe with a formal dress? nah, can't see it), Sire would remove it and replace it with another piece of jewelry that he declares is my collar for that time...*shrug*  I also have a couple of different scene/play collars--much better for having the leash attached to, or more heavy duty play.

I can't see that I would ever wear the more personal one again--but if allowed I'd keep it in my jewelry box and pull it out to hold in times of sadness, or stress.  The more scene related collars--if allowed to keep them I'd probably use them in a scene context, as they are comfortable and I am familiar with them.  Then again, I don't see another Dominant necessarily being comfortable with us using a previous collar should we become close enough to have a steady D/s relationship.

In 'nilla relationships, if the ring recipient breaks the relationship, then the ring is returned.  If the ring giver breaks the relationship then the ring can be kept.  However, that is the traditional way of handling things, and as with time, everything can change.  The best thing to do is to make it clear at the time of the break up, what you would like done with rings and collars...and in the case of our lifestructure, since we negotiate so much Prior to Anything happening, then that should be at least mentioned in the beginning.

We live, love and learn.

Kiki


_____________________________

"That which yields is not always weak." Kushiel series by Jacqueline Carey

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 10:51:20 AM   
YourShyPet


Posts: 185
Joined: 6/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BiteGirl

Why would someone continue to wair a collar after they and their dom are no longer together? That seems stupid to me. Do you know someone who has done this?

A collar is earned, not just given, and signifies a lot, to just wear it as a fashon exesary is pointless.



I know a lot of people who wear collars just to wear them... it's a fashion... I also know a lot of people who have very intense... commited... long term D/s...M/s relationships and they've never even touched a collar... Some people earn them... some people just wear them... heck on here I've had people try to throw them at me... it only becomes more than just a neck adorment when people put meaning to it... not everyone does... and not everyone who says they do... really do... those lovely... "velcro" collars are common place in these parts.

_____________________________

kittin

http://www.myspace.com/daddys_kittin

(in reply to BiteGirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 11:14:55 AM   
mmb1


Posts: 304
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline 		IMO, people take collars very lightly with all of this releasement etc, returning.  I would never accept one unless I was absolutely sure and I like those 24/7 ones, but, the collar itself is a symbol that you can see, the collar and what it represents, is something you can only feel, and I plan on feeling that once.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 11:37:59 AM   
opensoul


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline 		 I hope I am not crossing the line by answering in this forum, If so i ask forgiveness. I am a slave not yet collared, but happy owned. I have not earned the right to be collared yet, for me it is a very powerful commintment.
I have been with my Master for only eight months and still learning about my slavery and submission to him, so I feel the need for the collar ,but I know Master will give it when He knows I am ready. That said , When that happens it and I are his , If we must part the collar is his in the hopes of remembering our time together. If he gave it to me to keep, I would not wear it but in private for my own memories 

(in reply to mmb1)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 11:48:12 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		TO collar is a very important and meaningful moment in my life as well as the one receiving the collar....SOME have waited here very patiently for a year or more before the time comes for me to say yea or nay....The collar given is the MASTERS collar and in case a separation of this union is called upon then I take back the collar and destroy it but we all have our way of doing things,,,Just the opinion of this ol'master...

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to opensoul)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 12:02:02 PM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		The collar my previous Dom gave me was a sterling silver choker style necklace, he then found a nice pendant that slid over the necklace which he had engraved with something that was special to the two of us. When our relationship ended, he removed my collar, took the pendant off the neckalce, and replaced the necklace on my neck saying it was no longer a collar but his gift to me for a wonderful relationship. I still wear that necklace as the beautiful peice of jewelry that it is, even though we are no longer together, and I am in fact now collared to someone else.

I guess it helps that our D/s relationship ended on very good terms and we still speak almost daily.....

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 12:05:31 PM   
goalie62


Posts: 114
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		I thank everyone very much for the input.  The return of the collar in question has been requested but occasionally, the sub in question leaves the door open to a possible reconciliation.  I do not believe that she fully knows what she wants and I believe she may still be searching for who she is as well.  She is still young and I think she's still finding her own way in the world.

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 12:56:04 PM   
KiandPhoenix


Posts: 205
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		Phoenix has a couple of them used for different situations. She has a token as well as a work collar, that are acceptable to wear to work. When we were first getting into things we wanted a contract (incidentally we had a "contract of responsibility assignment" rather than a contract of submission or slavery). We looked at a few hundred examples to see what things were in them, and took what we liked and didn't like. . .now I am rambling. One of the things we saw was that many people had put in ownership of the collar, so we put in a clause that she owns any work collar, and I own the rest.

Because either of us can end our relationship at any time, she can take it off herself, even if I am not there, to end the dom sub part of our relationship. I can also remove it should I feel A. I don't want to do this with her anymore. B. She is not in the correct headspace and needs a break for awhile or C. she has to shower. She does not remove it herself. Her co-workers know about our lifestyle, and I have given permission for one of her co-workers to remove it if needs be. No part of our BDSM relationship is to interfere with her work, so if the collar does not fit her clean outfits, or she has a particular crowd, it could effect her money.

We both have removed her collar on occasion, and then reworked our relationship for a few days or once even a couple weeks. During that time, we were a vanilla couple, and she owned her work stuff, and I owned the others. Once we had things set up again for another run at this, I placed one back on her. I think we are in our fourth incarnation of learning what we want, and I suspect we will always have times like those, because we grow all the time, and learn that our wants and needs have changed.
~Ki

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 2:09:05 PM   
goalie62


Posts: 114
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Thank you for your input.  I believe the collar is about to be returned.  The lady has decided that she has found her Domme side and is exploring that right now.  I think we have too much difference to be a couple, but I wish her luck and happiness.  I believe we will be friends and I am happy for that.

_____________________________

God, you have no idea how badly I want to put something profound here.

(in reply to KiandPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 2:16:42 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goalie62

I believe we will be friends and I am happy for that.


Always good to hear. 

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to goalie62)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 2:55:18 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goalie62

I have a couple of quick questions about collars.

If you give a collar/your collar is accepted by a person who says she wants to be your sub, and that relationship ends, is the sub expected to return or allow you to formally remove the collar?

If she doesn't want to let you remove it or just return it to you and she continues to wear it, what does that mean within the lifestyle?

To me, if I understand it correctly (and please bear in mind that I am new to the lifestyle) the collar is a symbol of respect, submission and pride in being owned.  Should the relationship end, it would seem to me that for a sense of closure, the Dom should remove the collar from the sub as a symbol of the ending of the relationship.  If the sub continues to wear the collar, doesn't it mean she's still in the relationship as an owned sub?

Please clarify this for me.



Typically, one of the things "we" do in a general sense when we get first introduced in this lifestyle is think inside the box.

We're looking for THE answers, THE right way to do, THE way it is.

However, the truth is none of this is black and white and there is no right or wrong answers when it comes to how you go about doing things.

The "lifestyle" people constantly talk about is nothing more than a "personal lifestyle".

So my advice, rather than answer the questions for you, is for you to try and start answering the questions for yourself and figuring out your own style as a dominant.

Because...there isnt really an answer I can give you thats absolute. Its all about the two individuals in the relationship, what works for them, and how much value they place on the ritual of collaring.


_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to goalie62)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 3:31:41 PM   
goalie62


Posts: 114
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		That is very good advice Mad Rabbit and I thank you for it.  I am looking for some general information and some loose guidelines.  So far, my style has been very loving and respectful using restraint bondage and I have come to love using a riding crop.  Un fortunately, the relationship didn't last long enough for any real in depth exploration.  Hopefully, I will find a lady to explore with me.

_____________________________

God, you have no idea how badly I want to put something profound here.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 3:40:20 PM   
Shadowen


Posts: 34
Joined: 8/31/2007
Status: offline
To MadRabbit,I disagree with your saying theres no right or wrong answers/way to do things. I hate political correctness in all its nasty little shapes. There most definately is a right and wrong way to do things. It just isn't singular.

That being said, I personally never got into the whole ritualized and formalized ceremonial collaring thing. To much of a wedding type reminder and has the same oh so overly romanticized overtones and fantasies that seem to be all over the place these days. Just not my personal preference. I know some people who love all that heavily ritualized kinda stuff. I personally don't. Same with the whole contract thing but thats neither here nor there.

I have lots of collars . Pink ones, black ones, ones with all these nice little chains and D-rings everywhere. Saw one the other day that had a row of thumbtacks pushed onto the outside so that the points lined the inside. I thought it was pretty cool myself and thought about making one like that myself, but really dont see the point as I'd never use the thing. Still would love to have it laying around just to see the looks of abject horror on peoples faces when I lied through my teeth about using it all the time.
Anyways, my girl wears a chain bracelet thats locked and I have the key. Got a neat little heart shaped lock and everything (but thats only cause a regular lock looked silly). Like others have said , its technically my bracelet, but I wouldnt want it back. Personally I dont think it would look good on me, but not only that I purchased it specifically for her and even if I did get it back it'd never be given or used by anyone else. I see it as kinda in contradicting terms. Its just a bracelet and nothing more, but at the same time a symbol of the relationship with her. (Don't worry I don't make sense to me either)

Traditionally I've always been told that the collar goes back to the dominant at the end of the relationship. Personally, collars are just to me like someone else mentioned fashion excesories. They look nice, got rings and loops on them to hook up leashes, but they're just that to me. An object. Like I said I've got lots of collars and I pick one to use to what suits my mood. But they are mine and if heaven forbid my girl leave she aint taking them. They're my toys mine mine mine. If I buy her a collar its hers and she can take it with her.

Like what MadRabbit said, gotta figure out your own personal preference and what it means to you. Collars can and do mean a great deal to some people and others they don't. Its all subjective.

And now that I've either bored you people to tears or made your brains hurt trying to understand me I'm off to see if I can find a dormouse cause I forgot what he said before and gotta ask him again.

(in reply to goalie62)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 6:08:11 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Fast Reply to no one in particular....
 
I'm trying to imagine making a big deal of bestowing my collar upon someone and mentioning that it had previously been worn by Louise, Martha and Lynn.*  Somehow I suspect that is the kind of "regifting" that might assist the newest Mrs. Rover to discover a previously unknown limit.
 
John

* The names have been changed to protect the innocent.  Well, they were innocent when I met them.

< Message edited by Rover -- 8/31/2007 6:09:41 PM >

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Shadowen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Collar Protocol - 8/31/2007 6:17:26 PM   
Shadowen


Posts: 34
Joined: 8/31/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah I really don't see very many women appreciating the long and distinguished lineage of said collar. Though you could describe it in terms of ...like a pedigree. Or something to that effect but then again that might just make them run faster.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 40
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