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being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 9:26:17 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		I was just curious to how or if Masters deal with this type of situation.

I often read on the Internet and in my local community days run into a few submissives who have little or no actual experience who are very real, sincere and quality people but have somehow and in some combination have made out that a good/their future dominant should somehow almost be non human like perfect and above the frailties of being human beings and also have some belief that a dominant is a somewhat glorified mind reader and all together have made out the power exchange life to be a higher/noble life then any other type of relationship instead of just different in some ways.

Is just experience and going slow to remove these perceptions naturally or do you have to specifically address these issues and if so how?


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I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama
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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 9:30:49 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I do both.  What's most amusing is when a sub wants to continue to INSIST that a dom should be X Y and Z and will drop one because they are trying to say "Hey, I'm just me"

Time will show them all they need to know, but if I want to speed it up or drive a point home, I have no problem over dinner asking what they expect and what they think and addressing those thoughts.  If it doesn't get absorbed or immediately processed, that's ok.  I've planted the seeds and see how they grow over time. 

I'd say one of the top problems people have when getting into bdsm is that they set up false expectations all over the place.  The quicker those are eliminated, the better.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 10:18:19 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		When I accept a slave into my House, she is expected to center her life around ten rules, or Precepts, that I cobbled together in the course of my reading and research.

The Tenth Precept reads as follows: "Never forget that Sir, while your Lord and Master, is still human."


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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 10:23:02 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		From the beginning he told me he is good but not perfect, and that I should never believe he is perfect.  He made this quite clear, saying he is going to make some wrong choices sometimes; he is going to make some errors.  I accepted this, and sure thing, there have been some errors.  I've certainly made a hell of a lot more than he has, though!  Perhaps when I some day deem myself as perfect, I will think he should be too, but I don't see that ever happening.

I continue to say he is spot on about 95% of the time, with a 5% error rate.  I can certainly live with that!  When he errs, I remind myself that whatever it was was just part of that 5%, and I get over it and move on.

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 10:23:07 AM   
mmb1


Posts: 304
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline 		I agree...........Whomever expects anyone to be less than human is in for a rude awakening.

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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 10:29:45 AM   
PeggyO


Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hello,

When I look at someone (not just dominants) I judge not on whether or not they make mistakes, but how they react when they do make a mistake.

If they don't take responsibility, try to blame someone or something else and don't take steps to fix their error as best they can, they aren't someone I want to spend time with.  And it's certainly someone I am not going to trust on any kind of deep level.

If they step up to the plate and do what's right, then it's all good.  At least that's my view.

Be well,

Peggy

(in reply to mmb1)
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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 10:47:50 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mmb1

I agree...........Whomever expects anyone to be less than human is in for a rude awakening.


Indeed...and I would like to add that being put on a pedestal is itself a perverse form of objectification.  While it's quite flattering to be thought of as the "knight in shining armor" from time to time---especially when it means being called on to do battle with demonic cockroaches and other flying monsters--it is quite demoralizing to be cast as such to the exclusion of all other characteristics.  A dominant is not just a knight in shining armor, he or she is many other things besides.

Contrary to what many might believe, being put on a pedestal is definitely being regarded as less than human.


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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 12:52:34 PM   
PAcpllooking


Posts: 73
Joined: 5/14/2004
Status: offline 		There are many subs and Doms who say the are looking for a very specific person and like you have noticed there is really no one who could fill what they want.
I feel that they are fixed on the fantasy of being in the life and may never take the step into really living it.
You are right when you say that they make the life sound like some higher order adn make it more difficult then it is. I feel its because there are people in this world who want to belong to some secret club where others are excluded and only a few chosen ones are a part of it.
Like you said they go to munches, they talk online, go to parties but never really get invovled beyond that. It could be tey are just afraid to make the real step into it so they set up impossible roadblocks to overcome. What upsets me with these types is many times they act like experts and put others down if the other people dont agree with their views.
Bottomline is that they do what they do and we do what we do and so be it. If thats what they are into then its fine with me as long as they dont pass judgements on others.

William

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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 3:58:10 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		I tell them to quit reading romance novels and get a life.

(in reply to PAcpllooking)
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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 6:37:30 PM   
Squeakers


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline 		   I am not a Dominant but, I felt like answering.   I believe that D/s is based very much on fantasy.   Not that D/s is fantasy but it is fantasy driven.    Take the Beauty series for example, (not a series I completely enjoyed btw).   It is very fantasy based but aspects of it are very real.   I would hope that anyone who reads a fictional piece of erotica realizes that is it fiction but based on actual pieces of reality.   
  It is extremely easy to attach immortal qualities to a Dom.  It is even easier if you know him very well, but there is reality mixed in those attachments.   You already know he goes to the bathroom, gets sick, gets tired, gets angry and he might even pick his nose.    But he can also make you cry with a look, he can ease your troubles with just the sound of his voice, he can inflict pain that is pleasurable and a 100 million other things that no one else in this world is capable of doing.    It goes both ways, sometimes I think Dominants can also put their submissives in a position of extreme regard that would cause others to think that he has put her on a 'false' pedestal.  
     I think most people are aware that D/s is not simply a series of scenes carried out twenty-four hours a day.   I think that most people are aware that D/s is very vanilla peppered with the spice of D/s.   Most people work, most people have children, everyone must pay bills, get groceries, take a bath, clean their house and do the mundane ordinary things that everyone else does on a daily basis.    
   When I began my journey it was a total reversal.   I was told that a 24/7 D/s realtionship was not possible.   It only exsisted in the minds of our creative erotic writers.    The D/s exchange happened on occasion.    There could be no healthy balance between vanilla and D/s it was either or.    This of course was pre-internet even so I mentally questioned it.   
    With time and experienced I became aware of the balance and for those determined not to intermingle vanilla and D/s and human frailites with immortal qualities, they will find out.   If not, I extend my sympathies.   

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 7:08:35 PM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		If I felt someone though I should be the center of perfection then I'd have to say thank you but no thank you.  I don't need that pressure from someone who's there to help make life easier for me.  To me that's akin to the concept of micromanagement.  To micromanage I would have to do double, nearly triple the work of doing it myself.

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D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 7:27:23 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

If I felt someone though I should be the center of perfection then I'd have to say thank you but no thank you.  I don't need that pressure from someone who's there to help make life easier for me.  To me that's akin to the concept of micromanagement.  To micromanage I would have to do double, nearly triple the work of doing it myself.


Touche. I used to try to do the "master" thing.

I ultimately figured out it came down to some sort of regimen.

And that the only way that a 'slave" would be of any use whatsoever, was if she knew enough to free up time for me-doing things I would rather not. Most were rather crushed when I told them this-they expected a lot of attention for doing basic menial tasks.

Doesn;t make alot of sense, does it? Serve me, by wasting huge quantities of my time and energy?

(in reply to earthycouple)
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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 8:36:51 PM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		I have never put a Dom on a pedestal and I never put the role on a pedestal.  In fact, I doubted whether I could ever find someone I respected enough to trust with a guidance element.  I'm probably an advanced beginner (one year-long, live-in, lifestyle and a few other shorter experiences before that.)  And could always give you a level-headed analysis of what I liked and didn't yet like about any man, Dom or not, that I had been involved with.

And then last week, I met a man that I have put on such a high pedestal, I am hoping and waiting to see some glimmer of a flaw so I know he is human.  And I'm just praying that the inevitable flaws don't include disappearing powers or a tendency to not follow through on commitment, because I could embrace just about anything else.  This man entranced me in ways I never felt possible and I feel like it is something out of a fairy tale or a chick flick. 

Intellectually, I know he can't be perfect.  But I told him something vanilla that is usually this embarassing admission, and he is the first person in the world (not just dating, among my friends, & colleagues too) that said "Me too." Usually I get a "huh?" or "Why not--can't you afford it?" or something judgemental, and we just talked about our experiences going against society that way.  And then he, ... oh, well, no need to go into details. 

But, I bring this up because I wonder, isn't that part of many romances at the beginning, not just kinky ones?  Don't we, in that first rush of infatuation, often think this person is perfect? (And don't women do this a lot more than men?) And don't we sometimes not mention the ways that we aren't perfect because we would like someone to get to know us better before they see our flaws? 

(in reply to RRafe)
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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 9:17:20 PM   
labrat18610


Posts: 63
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		For me, RRafe is closest to real life. A slave is to be used to make a Master's life more pleasant. That means performing menial tasks without a constant pat on the back. Slavery is grunt work.
This agreed Master/slave relationship is between two human beings. It doesn't make one a god and the other a mindless robot. It does make one a slave to the other. The Master has only so much authority as the slave is willing to give. It's an intimate, real relationship.
When I read some of the slave posts, they reek of pure fantasy. They are searching for some god like figure that no human being could possibly be.
In real life, you're spending hours doing menial tasks for a guy who farts in bed, but he's your Master.


(in reply to RRafe)
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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 9:30:01 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: labrat18610

For me, RRafe is closest to real life. A slave is to be used to make a Master's life more pleasant. That means performing menial tasks without a constant pat on the back. Slavery is grunt work.
This agreed Master/slave relationship is between two human beings. It doesn't make one a god and the other a mindless robot. It does make one a slave to the other. The Master has only so much authority as the slave is willing to give. It's an intimate, real relationship.
When I read some of the slave posts, they reek of pure fantasy. They are searching for some god like figure that no human being could possibly be.
In real life, you're spending hours doing menial tasks for a guy who farts in bed, but he's your Master.




Yup. I've done this sort of thing.

Hopefully-someone you spend that much time with is also pleasant, and fun to be with. There's a lot going on there. As far as love? It get worked into the routine-but the romanticism is NOT really what the fantasy seekers seem to want. I used to spend a heck of a lot of time thinking of what I could give back-and doing it. But I made some bad choices.

Ultimately, I ended up getting drained emotionally by a "cling on" or two. Exactly who the slave is gets pretty blurred in situations like that...........I walked away-there was ..drama......

Could I do it again? Maybe-but my criteria would sure as hell change. I'm me-not a role-not a title-not an *expectation*.

I reject anyone arrogant enough to try to pigeonhole me. If you can't see an actual person-and learn that they have an inherent value that is totally independent of what you may WANT them to be-you have a rocky road ahead.

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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 9:35:01 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple
I don't need that pressure from someone who's there to help make life easier for me

Yes!  That makes perfect sense to me.  To have a sub or slave who expects you to be perfect would seem to me to be a real pain in the ass.  As you said, I'm here to make life easier for Him and to bring Him pleasure.  Expecting Him to be perfect would not be pleasurable to Him at all, believe me.  I understand He's human, I accept it and I love Him all the more not in spite of that but because of it.  As you say, Donna, who needs the pressure of having to live up to unattainable expectations from their sub or slave?  Those expectations are just as unreasonable as the unreachable ones many doms hold for their subs/slaves.  Such pressure can flow both ways and, to us, is just as unacceptable either way...........luci

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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 10:12:57 PM   
Slaveless1


Posts: 105
Joined: 11/22/2005
Status: offline 		I usually ask those type of questions well in advance of any type of meeting. I want to be clear or at least out of the muddied waters to find out their expectations. I find that if they are esp. new to the lifestyle they have lots of misconceptions from reading. Not everything written works well in the day to day world. I also let them know right up front , I am not perfect, and I will make some mistakes. Just as they are not perfect and will make some mistakes. We learn from them and move on.

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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 11:01:13 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		You know...I have never really had the pleasure of meeting one of these individuals on a personal level.

Personal speculation leads me to beleive that my nick might have something to do with it.

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Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 8/31/2007 11:40:38 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Newbies will learn very quickly that the pedestal usually aint that high.

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RE: being put on a false pedestal - 9/1/2007 12:37:01 AM   
leatherette


Posts: 255
Status: offline 		I just now unable to view D/s relationships as anything but relationships. I love that kink, the fun and I want to be with a man I can respect.

On service: I was raised very old school.  I never got rewarded for doing everyday chores and the routine of life.
I do care if the person I am with feels content, satisfied and his needs are met - a mutual sane balanced life. 

Wow. What a boring post....
{smile}

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