NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 12:17:52 PM)

Read:

http://www.michaelrighi.com/2007/09/01/arrested-at-circuit-city/

Discuss:

If we do not break EMPLOYEES and COPS of this "Show Me Your Papers" mindset, we will continue to see our freedoms taken away.




sophia37 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 12:28:55 PM)

Wow. Interesting. Its quite involved to fight the system this way. I certainly hope he keeps us all informed as he goes along thru the journey. I actually think we already have a fear of authority. Plus we self censor.

I had to fight against a bad building inspector, so for me, I would have just shown the guy my reciept. From experience I know how long it takes to really stick to ones principles and make those in charge face up to the real rules. Suckith One can only fight the good fight for just so long. The troops in charge have bottomless pockets. 



BitaTruble -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 12:34:15 PM)

I applaud Mr. Righi. The fact that he wasn't Mirandized should garner him a quick dismissal but even if he was, any thinking jury (and I can only assume that he'd go for a jury trial) would scoff at the trumped up charge. If there's any justice in the world, the fact that he was unlawfully detained by Circuit City employees will give him his day in court and a nice little punitive damage settlement to go along with it.

Celeste



cyberdude611 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 1:47:30 PM)

First off, Circuit City is a joke for many reason. I'm never stepping a foot into that store again.
Second, Retail loss prevention is an even bigger joke. They are a cross between keystone cops and the Gestapo.

I doubt this case goes to trial. I'd be surprised if the DA even moves forward with it considering the circumstances because the government may be held liable in future litigation. And I dont think this guy will have any trouble getting a constitutional lawyer to sue Circuit City for a breach of 4th amendment. The store was unable to prove any theft occured. The store was unable to provide probable cause.



defiantbadgirl -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 2:27:10 PM)

Smart guy. He should get a nice settlement from Circuit City.



popeye1250 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 2:30:12 PM)

I don't know if he wants to get the ACLU involved.
If I were on a jury and someone had the ACLU on their side it would be an automatic "GUILTY!" from me.



Alumbrado -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:00:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

First off, Circuit City is a joke for many reason. I'm never stepping a foot into that store again.
Second, Retail loss prevention is an even bigger joke. They are a cross between keystone cops and the Gestapo.

I doubt this case goes to trial. I'd be surprised if the DA even moves forward with it considering the circumstances because the government may be held liable in future litigation. And I dont think this guy will have any trouble getting a constitutional lawyer to sue Circuit City for a breach of 4th amendment. The store was unable to prove any theft occured. The store was unable to provide probable cause.


The store didn't have anyone arrested for theft... in fact, if the narrative is correct, the store didn't even call the police. 
Where are you getting your facts from?

People who know and stand on their rights, as the person in this story appears to have done, are a lot more useful in backing off officious stooges than running around yelling some vaguely legal sounding buzz words and railing against 'The Man'.



ElectraGlide -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:08:06 PM)

It almost sounds like a scam. They are accepting donations through paypal for legal help. Plus the story is just too detailed, you do not need to know that they bought a loaf of bread also.
When it comes to loss prevention at a place like that, I have known people that were busted that worked there, stealing things right through the loading dock. The store was too busy watching customers instead of its own employees.



kittensmailbox -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:22:10 PM)

all the guy had to do was show the bag, whats the big deal.... i think that Mr. Righi was the one in the wrong... it is a waste of tax payers money for this to go to court...  he caused himself to get arrested by not showing his ID... If a cop asked for mine, i would gladly give it over...



lazarus1983 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:22:27 PM)

Wow, this guy is just obnoxious, trying to trump up what he did like he's some kind of goddamned martyr. Yeah, way to take a stand against that gosh darned system.

It is loss prevention's JOB to do exactly what they did. Put yourself in an LP's position. A guy walks by, you ask to see his receipt, he doesn't show you. Hmmm...now why would he do that? Not to mention the fact that even out in the parking lot, that property is all owned by Circuit City. Just like if you were in my house, on my property, and I could ask you if you'd stolen anything, so can Circuit City, because they own the property. If I think you've taken something from my house, goddamned right I'm going to pin you down, or call the cops.

It actually is a crime to not show identification to the police officer. The police officer did nothing wrong. He was only doing his job, which is enforcing laws voted on and put into place by the public. If the failure to show identification thing really bothers him, then he should lobby to have that law changed. Not whine about a police officer who was just doing his job. If you don't like what that police officer is doing, then vote to change the laws.

The driver's license is a form of identification. If this guy had no car, and no driver's license, well then he would have a state issued ID card. And that obstructing official business? That is what this guy did, by refusing to show ID to prove he was who he was. Now, if he doesn't like this law, then he can work to get it repealed, instead of being some stuffy crybaby. 



SugarMyChurro -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:22:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
If I were on a jury and someone had the ACLU on their side it would be an automatic "GUILTY!" from me.


It's a good thing you aren't too reactionary, isn't it Popeye1250?

[8|]

Dude, do you even read what you are about to post sometimes? What can you have against the ACLU? Is is the fact that they are civil libertarians? What?



farglebargle -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:23:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

all the guy had to do was show the bag, whats the big deal.... i think that Mr. Righi was the one in the wrong... it is a waste of tax payers money for this to go to court... he caused himself to get arrested by not showing his ID... If a cop asked for mine, i would gladly give it over...


As a Jew who lost family in the camps, I twitch whenever I'm asked for papers...




farglebargle -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:27:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Wow, this guy is just obnoxious, trying to trump up what he did like he's some kind of goddamned martyr. Yeah, way to take a stand against that gosh darned system.

It is loss prevention's JOB to do exactly what they did. Put yourself in an LP's position. A guy walks by, you ask to see his receipt, he doesn't show you. Hmmm...now why would he do that?


Say, "Sorry to have bothered you, Have a nice day."

quote:


Not to mention the fact that even out in the parking lot, that property is all owned by Circuit City.


Most likely, Circuit City is just a tenant of a real estate management and investment firm.

quote:


Just like if you were in my house, on my property, and I could ask you if you'd stolen anything, so can Circuit City, because they own the property.


RENTERS.

quote:



If I think you've taken something from my house, goddamned right I'm going to pin you down, or call the cops.


And when you are proven WRONG, you will have to suffer the Criminal and Civil penalties for your unlawful detention.

Don't do the CRIME of unlawful detention unless you're willing to do the TIME for unlawful detention.

quote:


It actually is a crime to not show identification to the police officer.


You didn't read the article, did you?

I'll stop now. Go read the article, and maybe you'll be able to constructively contribute.




Alumbrado -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:30:51 PM)

Another imaginary Consitutional revision, brought to you courtesy of the 'Tin Foil Hat, No Gurlz Allowed He Man Club', FB founder.

So now tenants have no right to be secure in their persons and possessions?  [sm=biggrin.gif]



kittensmailbox -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:31:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

all the guy had to do was show the bag, whats the big deal.... i think that Mr. Righi was the one in the wrong... it is a waste of tax payers money for this to go to court... he caused himself to get arrested by not showing his ID... If a cop asked for mine, i would gladly give it over...


As a Jew who lost family in the camps, I twitch whenever I'm asked for papers...





Wasnt that in Germany and not a Ciruit City? i lost family in that war too....



cyberdude611 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:36:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

all the guy had to do was show the bag, whats the big deal.... i think that Mr. Righi was the one in the wrong... it is a waste of tax payers money for this to go to court...  he caused himself to get arrested by not showing his ID... If a cop asked for mine, i would gladly give it over...


You want to live in a police state.. go ahead.

It is a waste of taxpayers money to arrest a guy that had committed no crime. This man stole nothing from that store. There was no criminal incident involved. If the state pushes ahead with this, it is them who is wasting tax payers money.

The 4th amendment prohibits search or seizure without probable cause. If the store has no evidence of theft, they have no probable cause to conduct a search.
The Supreme Court has specifically stated that you have a right to remain silent during police questioning. You cannot be arrested or prosecuted for refusing to answer questions. That's part of the Miranda vs Arizona ruling.



lazarus1983 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:38:40 PM)

Okay, maybe that's how YOU would have handled the situation, by saying "sorry, etc." But what in the hell does that have to do with anything? YOU are not an employee hired by Circuit City in a loss prevention position. That employee had a responsibility to ask for a receipt. If he didn't, then he would be in negligence of his position. 

So you go from saying that "most likely" they're just renters, to definitively shouting, "RENTERS."
Well, don't renters have rights too? Doesn't a business have a right to attempt to prevent theft?

And you're right, I might have to suffer penalties for my actions if I unlawfully detained someone on my property. But there was no unlawful detention in the Circuit City example. In my eyes, the LP did his job, and the police officer did his job.

And yes, I did read the "article." I couldn't stop laughing throughout the whole thing.

And I'd like to think I have been constructively contributing. So, simply because you disagree with my opinions, I am not constructively contributing?

Well then, what the hell was so constructive about you attempting to draw parallels between a Circuit City receipt and the Holocaust?



cyberdude611 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:45:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Okay, maybe that's how YOU would have handled the situation, by saying "sorry, etc." But what in the hell does that have to do with anything? YOU are not an employee hired by Circuit City in a loss prevention position. That employee had a responsibility to ask for a receipt. If he didn't, then he would be in negligence of his position. 



If you pay for an item. It is now your property. You go into a store. You buy something. You leave the store. You are now NOT on private property. This is a parking lot. It is public property. And you now have your purchase which is now your property.

What probable cause did the LP officer have that this man stole something? Did the alarm go off as he left the store? Does the store of video of the man putting something in his pocket? If the answer is no...then the LP officer went beyond his duties.
And I've worked in retail before... you are not supposed to leave the store and chase a shoplifter and prevent him access to his vehicle. You get the tag number, you call the police, and you let the police conduct the investigation.



lazarus1983 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:51:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Okay, maybe that's how YOU would have handled the situation, by saying "sorry, etc." But what in the hell does that have to do with anything? YOU are not an employee hired by Circuit City in a loss prevention position. That employee had a responsibility to ask for a receipt. If he didn't, then he would be in negligence of his position. 



If you pay for an item. It is now your property. You go into a store. You buy something. You leave the store. You are now NOT on private property. This is a parking lot. It is public property. And you now have your purchase which is now your property.

What probable cause did the LP officer have that this man stole something? Did the alarm go off as he left the store? Does the store of video of the man putting something in his pocket? If the answer is no...then the LP officer went beyond his duties.
And I've worked in retail before... you are not supposed to leave the store and chase a shoplifter and prevent him access to his vehicle. You get the tag number, you call the police, and you let the police conduct the investigation.



What the hell kind of company would NOT own/rent the property of their own parking lot? No, a parking lot isn't necessarily public property at all. It could still be owned by the company. I've worked in malls before as security, and each one OWNED their own parking lot. I've also seen many loss prevention employees follow people out to their cars, and do exactly what this Circuit City LP did. I've seen people followed out of WalMart before by employees. I've seen it all the time.

So you worked in retail before...were you a loss prevention employee?



BitaTruble -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 3:52:28 PM)

http://www.crimedoctor.com/loss_prevention_3.htm

This article is pertinent to this debate.

Celeste



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