RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out...

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (Full Version)

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kiyari -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 8:37:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Another imaginary Consitutional revision, brought to you courtesy of the 'Tin Foil Hat, No Gurlz Allowed He Man Club', FB founder. So now tenants have no right to be secure in their persons and possessions? [sm=biggrin.gif] Not his point, I suspect. ...and in general, "tenants" do not (as re: non-corporate/commercial, aka: actual persons, here) have any 'defensible' rights, in the eyes of the law... speaking in general of course (from personal experience) YMMV.

kiyari -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 8:42:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox They were asking to check the bag.... Big deal!!! They were asking to see the man's ID... AGAIN, big deal.... If you want to support this man then go ahead, send him money like he is asking.... Doesnt anyone remember 9/11... All the Amicans that were killed? geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs.... Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID... AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide.... Camel's nose... SO, your CM life is open and in the Public Domain?

kittensmailbox -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 8:48:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari quote: ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox They were asking to check the bag.... Big deal!!! They were asking to see the man's ID... AGAIN, big deal.... If you want to support this man then go ahead, send him money like he is asking.... Doesnt anyone remember 9/11... All the Amicans that were killed? geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs.... Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID... AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide.... Camel's nose... SO, your CM life is open and in the Public Domain? Yes it is... everyone who knows me, work, family friends etc.. everyone knows... i am not ashamed of who i am...

kiyari -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 9:03:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari quote: ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox <snippage> Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID... AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide.... Camel's nose... SO, your CM life is open and in the Public Domain? Yes it is... everyone who knows me, work, family friends etc.. everyone knows... i am not ashamed of who i am... Well then, you are either a very strong person who also is independently wealthy [or otherwise immune from material concerns], and/or one who has a deeply devoted loving circle about you. What ever the reason, you are a Most Fortunate Person, in this. Can you, however, appreciate that such is not the case for many of us? ...and not from Shame, so much as... Potential and possibly devastating consequences, not always(!) rationally based.

dcnovice -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 9:06:57 PM)
quote: Doesnt anyone remember 9/11... All the Amicans that were killed? geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs.... I knew two of those "Amicans," so I remember 9/11 vividly. So vividly, in fact, that it turns my stomach to see someone exploit and dishonor the tragedy by using it to score cheap points in an online debate about Circuit City.

KAZVorpal -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 9:17:36 PM)
It's about cowardice. People who are willing to give up precious rights and freedoms for the promise of temporary safety neither deserve, nor will ever obtain, either one. Cowards and vultures alike responded to 9-11 by claiming that "it's a different world, now", that our natural rights were somehow less important. They are wrong. If anything, they are more important, and need to be defended more strongly. Not surrendered to every fearmongering politician, whether a Bush or Clinton.

CuriousLord -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 9:33:43 PM)
Comments: -Working under the assumption this story is entirely accurate, I found find in the favor of the author. -The website strikes me as a likely scam. The attempts at claiming legitmacy so frequently for donations and the entire website being posted in such a short time when he's supposedly been deep in legal issues is particularly questionable. -Is it or is it not illegal to refuse showing an officer an ID in such a situation? I would appreciate a reputable citing. -Does anyone know how to research if the particular case is legitimate?

OrionTheWolf -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 9:36:17 PM)
I agree fargle, the exception being some of the buying clubs, where you actually signed and agreed to have it checked. I have walked right past a security person before, as they ask for my receipt. I kept walking and smiled, they said to stop, and I told them if they really thought I was stealing to physically restrain me then. They didn't do anything. Someone has to see you conceal or take the merchandise before they are legally protected. Orion

ElectraGlide -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 10:31:08 PM)
I was reading the comments on the web site and people were tearing the guy a new one. I left a comment, I asked him how did his monkey bread taste ? He has that in the first paragraph oh his legal trouble journey.

cyberdude611 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/2/2007 10:53:42 PM)
According to Ohio's law... You do not have to provide proof of identification. You do have to provide: Name, address, and date of birth. That's it. The law says nothing about state ID. It says nothing about Driver's license. And it specifically states you can't arrest someone who refuses to answer questions concerning a criminal incident. So the police officer did go beyond the law in this case. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29

MadHatter -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 12:37:17 AM)
I'll add my two cents in to this argument as a law-abiding tax-paying Retail employee. I work for Jo-anns and we have a policy on shoplifting. If you are detained for shoplifting, or suspicion of shoplifting and it is found that you did not shoplift, you can take the company that detained you to court for that. As the manager of the store did detain the man, by process of placing himself in the way of this person from leaving, and it was later found that he had not shoplifted, the wrongfully accused has the right to sue for settlement. Now we at Jo-anns have come up with ways around this that still deter shoplifters (some people just make it look like they are shoplifting to gain a settlement) but still, there will always be a problem.

obis -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 2:27:09 AM)
Ugh, what a ridiculous, easily avoidable, waste of time and energy for everyone involved. If Circuit City had trained those employees for more than 15 minutes, they'd know exactly how to handle the situation, rather than having it escalate. Of course stores that DO train their security tell them the same thing -- if you didn't see somebody steal something, don't you dare try to stop them, or we're going to be ass-raped in civil court. Stores that are open to the public have NO legal right to ask you to do anything other than leave.

lazarus1983 -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 4:29:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord Comments: -Working under the assumption this story is entirely accurate, I found find in the favor of the author. -The website strikes me as a likely scam. The attempts at claiming legitmacy so frequently for donations and the entire website being posted in such a short time when he's supposedly been deep in legal issues is particularly questionable. -Is it or is it not illegal to refuse showing an officer an ID in such a situation? I would appreciate a reputable citing. -Does anyone know how to research if the particular case is legitimate? This is a good point that hasn't been brought up yet: is the author's story entirely truthful, bereft of any bias? I do not believe that at all. Just like if we were to hear this story solely from the Circuit City LP's point of view, we couldn't believe all of it. Somewhere in the middle is the truth. I believe that this guy is trumping up the story, because he's apparently in love with being a martyr, gloryfing his actions to make them look like he was making a last, desperate stand against that pesky system. Glancing back at the charge, Obstructing Official Business, it could be construed that not providing proof of your identification could be considered Obstructing. So what if the guy gave the cop a name and address. Where's the proof that he is who he claims he is? Perhaps he has a warrant out for his arrest, and is therefore supplying a false name.

came4U -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 4:42:58 AM)
This guy is a drama queen. He knew bloody well that he was being asked for reciepts on the way out. He enjoyed the attention in becoming above the law and being chased. Just yesterday, I bought school supplies including a backpack. Since my last stop in that department store was to buy some movies, I paid all of my stuff at the DVD/CD closed area since I was there, and the lady suggested it, since there was no lineup. Leaving the store, I was wearing the backpack with the price tag still on it. I held the receipt up so cashiers on the way out can see it and I said, 'I bought this stuff back there'. So simple. If it were a family owned store, a small variety store, I would have done the same. These people get ripped off just as much as the leading department stores. Besides, it avoids such chasing down and drama in the first place to show a product receipt if a person's purchase is done differently or an on/off way as this guy had. He wanted the attention. Lil cry baby only didn't expect himself to be arrested to have the center of attention. Self-promoted fiasco. What a loser.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 5:12:20 AM)
Yeah, he is a drama queen. It reminds me of some other drama queens that wouldn't just pay their fair share of taxes, get in line, and shut the fuck up. We call those men the Founding Fathers of the U.S. I can put this in perspective: It's just a silly store policy. It's a minor inconvenience. Etc, etc, etc... But no, they do not have the right to sell you things and then forcibly detain and search you as if you were a criminal. That part is wrong. However, some of you act as if you you'd bend over and grease up for just about anyone. You're all so well trained...

came4U -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 5:47:19 AM)
quote: However, some of you act as if you you'd bend over and grease up for just about anyone. You're all so well trained... If the cashier had have been a hawwwwwwtie man, I might have eaten the receipt beforehand and taken my chances later. LOL

Alumbrado -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 6:31:39 AM)
quote: ...and in general, "tenants" do not (as re: non-corporate/commercial, aka: actual persons, here) have any 'defensible' rights, in the eyes of the law... speaking in general of course (from personal experience) In the context of this story, the above is completely untrue... people who rent, whether a home or a business, have the same legal rights to not be raped, murdered, assaulted, or robbed, as do people in their houses. They enjoy the same Constitutional rights against unreasonable government actions, such as racial discrimination, arbitrary decisions, unlawful searches, and so forth.

Alumbrado -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 6:36:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord Comments: -Is it or is it not illegal to refuse showing an officer an ID in such a situation? I would appreciate a reputable citing. - Here you go. Odd that with all of these legal, law enforcement, and Constitutional 'experts' on the boards, none of them had a working knowledge of Hiibel (apologies to anyone who already posted the cite).

farglebargle -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 6:44:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari quote: ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox They were asking to check the bag.... Big deal!!! They were asking to see the man's ID... AGAIN, big deal.... If you want to support this man then go ahead, send him money like he is asking.... Doesnt anyone remember 9/11... All the Amicans that were killed? geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs.... Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID... AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide.... Camel's nose... SO, your CM life is open and in the Public Domain? Yes it is... everyone who knows me, work, family friends etc.. everyone knows... i am not ashamed of who i am... I notice you're posting under a pseudonym.

Alumbrado -> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... (9/3/2007 6:51:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 You want to live in a police state.. go ahead. It is a waste of taxpayers money to arrest a guy that had committed no crime. This man stole nothing from that store. There was no criminal incident involved. If the state pushes ahead with this, it is them who is wasting tax payers money. The 4th amendment prohibits search or seizure without probable cause. If the store has no evidence of theft, they have no probable cause to conduct a search. The Supreme Court has specifically stated that you have a right to remain silent during police questioning. You cannot be arrested or prosecuted for refusing to answer questions. That's part of the Miranda vs Arizona ruling. How high can you make that stack of bullshit before it topples over on you? According to the account, Circuit City did none of the above... you are either making things up, or have facts about this case that the author doesn't. Given that you ran away when asked where your 'facts' came from earlier, I'm going with the first supposition. The 4th amendment applies only to unreasonable government conducted searches. As already pointed out, the US Supreme Court in Hiibel said that people *can* be arrested for refusing to answer questions. And finally, as you no doubt learned in the first weeks of your first criminal law class, the Miranda standard (based on a two part test, built on Acevedo as well as Miranda) only applies to self incriminating questions... which asking your identity is not, unless it is a crime to be you. [8\|]

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