Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out...


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 3:56:18 PM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

all the guy had to do was show the bag, whats the big deal.... i think that Mr. Righi was the one in the wrong... it is a waste of tax payers money for this to go to court...  he caused himself to get arrested by not showing his ID... If a cop asked for mine, i would gladly give it over...


You want to live in a police state.. go ahead.

It is a waste of taxpayers money to arrest a guy that had committed no crime. This man stole nothing from that store. There was no criminal incident involved. If the state pushes ahead with this, it is them who is wasting tax payers money.

The 4th amendment prohibits search or seizure without probable cause. If the store has no evidence of theft, they have no probable cause to conduct a search.
The Supreme Court has specifically stated that you have a right to remain silent during police questioning. You cannot be arrested or prosecuted for refusing to answer questions. That's part of the Miranda vs Arizona ruling.


They were asking to check the bag.... Big deal!!! They were asking to see the  man's ID... AGAIN, big deal....

If you want to support this man then go ahead, send him money like he is asking....

Doesnt anyone remember 9/11...  All the Amicans that were killed? geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs....  

Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID... AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide....

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 3:56:26 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

http://www.crimedoctor.com/loss_prevention_3.htm

This article is pertinent to this debate.

Celeste


Two good quotes from this article:

The worst thing that could happen is that an aggressive bag checker would forcibly detain or threaten a customer who refused to comply with the voluntary search

Did the Circuit City LP "forcibly detain" or "threaten" the customer?



And here's a good quote for the Circuit City Martyr:

My suggestion is to be patient with the store bag check procedure and understand that the store is trying to survive by preventing theft. If the bag check still offends you then I suggest shopping elsewhere.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 3:56:30 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Another imaginary Consitutional revision, brought to you courtesy of the 'Tin Foil Hat, No Gurlz Allowed He Man Club', FB founder.

So now tenants have no right to be secure in their persons and possessions?


No, I was refuting the specific allegation, "Circuit City OWNS the Property".

Of course they have no rights. They're ARTIFICIAL LEGAL ENTITIES. They get to obey the regulations, or they can dissolve, and liquidate their assets.

That said, there are plenty of reasonable precautions. You know, like all the surveillance.

That's the biggest hassle. You know WHY they're doing this? Because they don't trust their EMPLOYEES to not just fake-ring their friends up.

Of course, if there were EVIDENCE of any crime, then this would be all moot, wouldn't it.

If you KNOW someone ripped your store off, ARREST THEM. If you don't know someone ripped off your store, STFU and don't insult your customers.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:00:14 PM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline 		Very Pertinent it seems.......

_____________________________

Anyone can overpower; not many can INSPIRE.....

This is only MY opinion. If it's not yours, let's agree in advance to agree to disagree, OR, you can just get the fuck over what I had to say:)

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:01:17 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Okay, maybe that's how YOU would have handled the situation, by saying "sorry, etc." But what in the hell does that have to do with anything? YOU are not an employee hired by Circuit City in a loss prevention position. That employee had a responsibility to ask for a receipt. If he didn't, then he would be in negligence of his position.



If you pay for an item. It is now your property. You go into a store. You buy something. You leave the store. You are now NOT on private property. This is a parking lot. It is public property. And you now have your purchase which is now your property.

What probable cause did the LP officer have that this man stole something? Did the alarm go off as he left the store? Does the store of video of the man putting something in his pocket? If the answer is no...then the LP officer went beyond his duties.
And I've worked in retail before... you are not supposed to leave the store and chase a shoplifter and prevent him access to his vehicle. You get the tag number, you call the police, and you let the police conduct the investigation.



What the hell kind of company would NOT own/rent the property of their own parking lot?


All of them.. Circuit City is in what business? Consumer Electronics. They don't want to bother having to deal with getting the place plowed &tc. They rent. That way, their capital isn't tied up in real-estate, and can be used more effectively otherwise. ( See the documentary: "Back To School" regarding the details of rent v. own... )

quote:


No, a parking lot isn't necessarily public property at all.


What is the status of an area where the owner isn't a Real Person and the ALE INVITEs THE PUBLIC IN?

quote:


It could still be owned by the company. I've worked in malls before as security, and each one OWNED their own parking lot.


So the MALL owns Circuit City's parking lot, in your example.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:02:05 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		lazarus1983:

You wear the mask but it doesn't mean anything to you, does it?

Let me get this straight, you have to willingly submit to surreptitious searches and seizures without so much as probable cause? The probable cause is that you are a patron of the store? That's a very poor attitude toward paying customers: now that the customer has paid, treat each one like a thief.

If you bought it, it's yours - walk out. That whole receipt versus items check is bullshit. They often do not have the time to check the receipt against what you have in the bag or cart - so in reality it's just the theater of the police state. It's a fucking performance!


(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:03:28 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611


If you pay for an item. It is now your property. You go into a store. You buy something. You leave the store. You are now NOT on private property. This is a parking lot. It is public property. And you now have your purchase which is now your property.



Sorry, cyberdude, but parking lots are considered private property and the city/state is not liable for their upkeep, the store is or, actually, the property owner which may be the store or some third party. That said, the stuff in the bag was also private property and it belonged to Mr. R and was not subject to search by an employee or a police officer without .. probable cause. Once Mr. R said no to the search, that should have ended it and he was free to walk out to his car and leave without further incident. Circuit City employees had no probable cause to suspect Mr R of wrong doing. If they had, they would have been the ones to call the cops.


Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:03:37 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

all the guy had to do was show the bag, whats the big deal.... i think that Mr. Righi was the one in the wrong... it is a waste of tax payers money for this to go to court... he caused himself to get arrested by not showing his ID... If a cop asked for mine, i would gladly give it over...


You want to live in a police state.. go ahead.

It is a waste of taxpayers money to arrest a guy that had committed no crime. This man stole nothing from that store. There was no criminal incident involved. If the state pushes ahead with this, it is them who is wasting tax payers money.

The 4th amendment prohibits search or seizure without probable cause. If the store has no evidence of theft, they have no probable cause to conduct a search.
The Supreme Court has specifically stated that you have a right to remain silent during police questioning. You cannot be arrested or prosecuted for refusing to answer questions. That's part of the Miranda vs Arizona ruling.


They were asking to check the bag.... Big deal!!! They were asking to see the man's ID... AGAIN, big deal....



And he said, NO. End of story... Well, excepting the Nazi-Wannabes at the store and police department.

quote:



If you want to support this man then go ahead, send him money like he is asking....

Doesnt anyone remember 9/11... All the Amicans that were killed? geezz i wonder if things would have been different if the right ppl would have checked more IDs....


The SAUDI NATIONALS and their accomplices from 9/11 had VALID IDENTIFICATION.

So, I'm not sure what your point is.

quote:


Thanks to certain ppl of the world i cant even buy cold medicine without being asked for ID... AGAIN, big deal.... i have nothing to hide....



They're called "Lawmakers".

Oh, and EVERYTHING has SOMETHING they wanna keep on the DL



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 9/2/2007 4:07:24 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to kittensmailbox)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:05:25 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

lazarus1983:

You wear the mask but it doesn't mean anything to you, does it?

Let me get this straight, you have to willingly submit to surreptitious searches and seizures without so much as probable cause? The probable cause is that you are a patron of the store? That's a very poor attitude toward paying customers: now that the customer has paid, treat each one like a thief.

If you bought it, it's yours - walk out. That whole receipt versus items check is bullshit. They often do not have the time to check the receipt against what you have in the bag or cart - so in reality it's just the theater of the police state. It's a fucking performance!




No, I think the movie is very overrated.

Bag checking is that store's choice. Just like it can be YOUR choice not to shop at a store that does bag checking. If you don't like that Circuit City LPs treat customers like this, then YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOP THERE.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:11:07 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Okay, maybe that's how YOU would have handled the situation, by saying "sorry, etc." But what in the hell does that have to do with anything? YOU are not an employee hired by Circuit City in a loss prevention position. That employee had a responsibility to ask for a receipt. If he didn't, then he would be in negligence of his position.



If you pay for an item. It is now your property. You go into a store. You buy something. You leave the store. You are now NOT on private property. This is a parking lot. It is public property. And you now have your purchase which is now your property.

What probable cause did the LP officer have that this man stole something? Did the alarm go off as he left the store? Does the store of video of the man putting something in his pocket? If the answer is no...then the LP officer went beyond his duties.
And I've worked in retail before... you are not supposed to leave the store and chase a shoplifter and prevent him access to his vehicle. You get the tag number, you call the police, and you let the police conduct the investigation.



What the hell kind of company would NOT own/rent the property of their own parking lot?


All of them.. Circuit City is in what business? Consumer Electronics. They don't want to bother having to deal with getting the place plowed &tc. They rent. That way, their capital isn't tied up in real-estate, and can be used more effectively otherwise. ( See the documentary: "Back To School" regarding the details of rent v. own... )

quote:


No, a parking lot isn't necessarily public property at all.


What is the status of an area where the owner isn't a Real Person and the ALE INVITEs THE PUBLIC IN?

quote:


It could still be owned by the company. I've worked in malls before as security, and each one OWNED their own parking lot.


So the MALL owns Circuit City's parking lot, in your example.




Larger stores, such as Target and SEARS, will actually own their property and the parking lot in front of their property, even if they're nestled in the middle of a sprawling mall.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:11:47 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Actually, it is regulated by Law.

They can either OBEY the Law, or choose to disobey it, and then they shouldn't fucking whine like little bitches, and just do their time and or pay the fine.

It is CLEAR that NO LAWFUL PRIVILEGE exists for an artificial legal entity to unlawfully detain you, in order to search YOUR PRIVATELY OWNED PROPERTY.

If they got video of you boosting a cellphone, that's one thing. But to, en masse detain EVERY ONE of your customers ( and I would challenge that it's done in a FAIR manner, too... ) is so against the notions of Freedom and Liberty which this nation is founded upon, I need to question the Patriotism of ANY person who would submit to this.

ANY restrictions on our Freedom and Liberty mean the Terrorists Won. I'm not willing to give in like Bush did when he pulled the troops from Bin Ladin's homeland, as ordered.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:15:33 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Or I can choose to shop there and ignore their stupid procedures as long as I pay for my shit. I just don't see the need to be bothered twice about my purchases. Sometimes there is even two lines: one to checkout and another to be searched. Nice!

When they stop you, they are effectively performing a legal seizure if it's against your will - then they want to perform a search. That creates a liability for them, and for no better reason than that they have some obsession with the theater of checking your bag or cart for stolen goods.

Solution: they can have checkout lanes that lead straight out a door. They check you out, they know you paid, you walk straight out.

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:18:51 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
...and I would challenge that it's done in a FAIR manner, too...


I am Caucasian, so I am rarely stopped at such checks. I see people of darker skin colors routinely stopped. So yeah, profiling is a factor here also.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:29:38 PM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		I think this chart says it all.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=CC&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=bby%2Ccost%2Cwmt+tgt

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:35:05 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		OUCH! They're going to need to sell a LOT of extended warranties this Christmas!



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to selfbnd411)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:40:40 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Circuit City is a failing company right now. Their customer service ratings are in the toilet. The reason why is because they recently fired all their employees that make more than $11 an hour and replaced them with minimum wage workers. My neighbor went in there once to look at computers and the computer salesperson did not know the difference between RAM and hard drive memory.

I think they are the only major consumer electronics chain to post a loss so far this year. So obviously they are losing customers.

(in reply to selfbnd411)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 4:44:05 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Well, making their customers feel like thieves should really boost consumer loyalty then...


(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 5:09:19 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

What probable cause did the LP officer have that this man stole something? Did the alarm go off as he left the store? Does the store of video of the man putting something in his pocket? If the answer is no...then the LP officer went beyond his duties.
And I've worked in retail before... you are not supposed to leave the store and chase a shoplifter and prevent him access to his vehicle. You get the tag number, you call the police, and you let the police conduct the investigation.


Right but wrong!

I agree with you BUT:

as you can see here they got around it:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6788507369797760485

i do not have the SC decision that makes the narrow distinction as a result of the patriot act handy but hayden is sadly correct.   welcome to sSC slicing just like they are doing with gun regulation, there are situations where they do not need probable cause terrorist being one of them and terrorist is defined in the patriot act as any crime.

yepperz.....





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 5:41:33 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		What if you're someone who doesn't have any forms of id, and you say I am sorry officer, but do to........* what ever circumstance* I have no form of identification to offer, if I did I'd offer it and they still arrested you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox
If a cop asked for mine, i would gladly give it over...

(in reply to kittensmailbox)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... - 9/2/2007 8:26:02 PM   
kiyari


Posts: 631
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I don't know if he wants to get the ACLU involved.
If I were on a jury and someone had the ACLU on their side
it would be an automatic "GUILTY!" from me.


I do hope you would not in reality be so knee-jerk in any such case.

Not dissing you at all...

As we suffer life experiences,
it does provoke inclinations to have certain knee-jerk responses...
but there are always exceptions,
and ideally it would be best not to be blinded to them.

As that old saying goes: "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day"

Sort of applicable to one's searching for a suitable partner ;) as well

...just saying

_____________________________

Black Water Dragon

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: NEVER stop and show a receipt on the way out... Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094