Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Using a safeword = Punishment?!


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Using a safeword = Punishment?! Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 9:16:32 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		I came across the following on another site, it was a poll question yet it disturbed me and made me wonder how many agree with this or do not agree. If you do NOT believe in safewords, then please, do NOT repond to this, I don't want a debate over using or not using safewords. Its a dead horse, no use in beating the carcus any more.
 
"We use 'safe words' during 'playing', but there are penalties for the use of them, and then continue with the activity slowly after the punshment has been administered. what would be the proper punishment/penalty for the use of the safeword?"
 
That was posted by a 'male slave' who is searching for a Mistress if that matters.  I did email this person with what I hope will be a wake up call of sorts. Since his page is basically baren, who knows. Safewords are NOT to be punished as far as I recall; they are a tool to let your partner know what is going on and in punishing someone for using them its counter productive and it can be very dangerious and for lack of a better word, 'ignorant.' Why have a safeword(s) if there is a punishment attached?! Makes NO sence to me.  

Others thoughts on this.. 

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 9:32:29 PM   
Aine


Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline 		See now...using the safe word to get out of something one might not like is abuse of a safeword.

Now, if in a heavy s/m scene.....and the sub is getting to the point where they  can't take anymore, I understand the use.

Punishment for abuse of I understand, and we have had threads about this before, when one is taking advantage of the safeword in the first place, instead of using it for it's intended purpose.


_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 9:34:41 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well this is pretty much one of the reasons I advocate not using safeword- people turn them into things they aren't meant for, symbols of trust or fear or love or devotion.  They are meant as an indirect communication device.  Once people turn them into something "more" than that, you get these sorts of problems.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Aine)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 9:46:02 PM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		To each his own.  Thinking adults can accept whatever definitions and parameters they please.  Although they may not be mine.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 9:54:48 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		I have used safewords for years; it takes a LOT for me to use them, even with a partner that I trust; heck, I have 5 safewords, take your pick, a few are 'things are good' or minor things, the others are a bit more serious. If I knew that using a safeword got me punished, I would exit stage left and never come back.
 
Taking advantage of any situation is immature, thats a given. I just find it a bit counterproductive that a person(s) would equate using a safeword(s) to being punished, its an oxymoron in a sence.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 9:58:50 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

I came across the following on another site, it was a poll question yet it disturbed me and made me wonder how many agree with this or do not agree. If you do NOT believe in safewords, then please, do NOT repond to this, I don't want a debate over using or not using safewords. Its a dead horse, no use in beating the carcus any more.
 
"We use 'safe words' during 'playing', but there are penalties for the use of them, and then continue with the activity slowly after the punshment has been administered. what would be the proper punishment/penalty for the use of the safeword?"
 
That was posted by a 'male slave' who is searching for a Mistress if that matters.  I did email this person with what I hope will be a wake up call of sorts. Since his page is basically baren, who knows. Safewords are NOT to be punished as far as I recall; they are a tool to let your partner know what is going on and in punishing someone for using them its counter productive and it can be very dangerious and for lack of a better word, 'ignorant.' Why have a safeword(s) if there is a punishment attached?! Makes NO sence to me.  

Others thoughts on this.. 


Why on earth would I want to associate with an adult I had to punish to begin with? I'd rather be able to tell that person they are screwing up-and losing my trust and respect. And if they keep it up-we are going to be quits.

Isn't that punishment enough? How they make the needed correrctions should not have to become MY problem-that's a lazy ass cop out.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 10:00:30 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I think if you continually punish someone for correctly using their safeword and not abusing you can cause some damage mentally. What kind of message does that send the submissive if they receive punishment for legitimately using it? There will always be those out there that manipulate things to their own liking, and not always for the better.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 10:16:07 PM   
rmanrr


Posts: 358
Joined: 7/25/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings
A safeword is a safe word. End of story, end of discussion. If invoked all activity related to its usage stops dead and things are brought back to a place where the sub/slave feels safe period.


_____________________________

Be Well, Be Careful

Jarl Rmanrr

"the road untravelled is the loneliest." Me
Courage...the ability to overcome obstacles during the course.
"to be insane is to be original!"...Me

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 10:37:41 PM   
SolarAndViolet


Posts: 85
Joined: 8/26/2007
Status: offline 		I understand this was extrapolated from a poll question, so there's not a lot of detail to flesh out the circumstances.

My opinion, though, is that if a safeword is used, it should be respected. I can't see a reason to punish someone for its use.
However, if it becomes obvious that the safeword isn't being used appropriately (be it to avoid an actual punishment scene, or because someone doesn't like a decision that was made, etc), then I'd say the safeword is being abused. So what happens then? Well, I guess it depends on expectations from the involved parties. If the sub flat out won't accept anything negative, be it a punishment or having soft limits pushed, etc, then I'd say a reevaluation is in order.. to the tune of "should I be bothering with this relationship?" If the sub is trying and not playing games, but something is going on that is problematic or there was a health/psychological situation occurring that caused an issue to be triggered, then punishing that real response seems detrimental to the further progress of the relationship.

Only the people there really have much of a chance to judge the situation(s) to discern whether or not it is abuse on the sub's part or abuse on the Dom(me)'s part.. but either way, the scenario just leaves to many open ends. What ifs can be ugly and troublesome in any relationship.. adding into it this lifestyle and not knowing enough of any given situation can lead to advice being heeded that really isn't applicable. It may not be bad advice at all, in general, but in particular, it may just not fit the scenario.

I guess to sum it up: there's no one right answer.

-Solar


_____________________________

Vici, Vidi, Veni... (S)

Happy to be owned by Sir (V) (violetaelf)

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 10:55:40 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		~FR~

I'm in complete agreement with you, slaverosebeauty. If I thought I'd be punished for using a safeword, I'd never use it even if I thought I should. Seems to me that it defeats the purpose of having one at all. In one fell swoop it renders such impotent.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to SolarAndViolet)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 11:06:58 PM   
phoenixsub999


Posts: 49
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		I like the way one person said it would work with them - the safeword can be used, but the consequence (not punishment) would be that all play would immediately stop and there would be an evaluation of what the problem was to determine if an adjustment could be made (for example, 'bad' pain, such as that resulting in loss of blood circulation where there is risk of permanent damage), but barring that, play would not begin again in that session.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 11:09:50 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		I'm with the majority here ... if you're going to use a safeword (and I like to use the traffic light system with new subs and make it clear I will play to orange so if you don't speak up then the intensity will increase until you do or until I choose to stop), then there should be no penalty/punishment associated with using it. In fact, I praise subs for having the courage to use it because it is important feedback for Me. However, I don't rely entirely on a safeword as I am only too aware that sometimes subs just can't speak, let alone utter a safeword even when they should.

Sounds to Me like the op of the poll question (and whoever they play with) has some serious misconceptions about the intended and generally accepted use of safewords ... and I wouldn't consider them safe to play with until such things were worked out. I also wouldn't allow them to play like that in My Dungeon/at My play parties etc as that would violate My house rules that safewords must be respected.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 11:20:37 PM   
CatKnight


Posts: 37
Joined: 8/31/2007
Status: offline 		I can understand a dom wanting to avoid and deter a situation where their sub is abusing a safeword - using it far too early, or to indirectly control the action.
 
That said....safewords have to be inviolate.  Whatever you and your partner agree [x] means ... well, that's what it means.  My fiance and I use four from 'go faster' through 'emergency stop/begin aftercare NOW.'
 
The dom cannot simply decide or assume the sub is invoking the safeword early.  That's irresponsible and highly dangerous.  The dom cannot know with 100% certainty what the other person is feeling, or what their motive is. 
 
The dom MUST be able to believe and trust the sub not to abuse the safeword.  If he doesn't...then maybe this relationship needs to be discussed.  For the dom to fulfill HIS/HER desires he must be able to trust the sub not to force a stop without a very good reason.  If that's not true, maybe he/she needs a new sub.
 
The sub MUST be able to know that if things are going south fast - their limit has been reached or passed - they can make it stop.  That is the very definition of a consensual partnership - both people must be able to withdraw their consent for a given activity.  Only in extreme cases like slavery where the bottom explicity withdraws their right to well...withdraw consent...could something like this even be considered.
 
If the sub does not have that, then it becomes much harder to trust their dom.  It becomes much harder to just enjoy the sensations they want to feel if they have to watch out for their safety.
 
Punishment for safe words....eh, I don't buy it.  Far too much can go wrong without them or some similar system (like "STOP!!") in place.  Even the most experienced dom in the world can't be absolutely certain they're not taking their subbie somewhere they just can't go....
 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 11:20:39 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixsub999

I like the way one person said it would work with them - the safeword can be used, but the consequence (not punishment) would be that all play would immediately stop and there would be an evaluation of what the problem was to determine if an adjustment could be made (for example, 'bad' pain, such as that resulting in loss of blood circulation where there is risk of permanent damage), but barring that, play would not begin again in that session.


I added the emphasis here ... this isn't how I like to use safewords on the whole. It's why I like the traffic light system ... orange tells Me the sub is at/near their limit at that time but it isn't STOP NOW! That would be a call of red. I'd be disappointed in Myself to hear red regularly as it would mean I wasn't sufficiently progressive in My play. Hearing red because something unanticipated has cropped up eg sudden feeling of faintness, nausea etc is OK, no problem and I respond fast. Hearing red because the pain applied has suddenly become too intense is not so good and I would be blaming Myself. Red essentially puts the control back in the sub's hands, they have stopped the scene, and yes, time out must be taken to ascertain the problem and remedy it. Play might recommence but not the same activity ... for example, if the red was called when flogging, I might then move to an activity I know the sub enjoys ... wax, bondage etc. Something in which they will calm and regain confidence.

Orange leaves the control in My hands. I can choose whether to stop that activity and move to another, whether to continue that activity but at a lesser intensity (or with more caressing in between strokes etc), or whether to continue at a similar intensity if the mutual desire is to "see how far the sub can go". In My experience, subs can feel very disappointed and let down if their use of the safeword stops EVERYTHING and that might put them off using it again in future.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to phoenixsub999)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 11:37:13 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		bottom line no matter safeword is used or not it is to be respected. just that simple. it is like the person that cried wolf.

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/2/2007 11:44:47 PM   
LDRandAstarte


Posts: 504
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

I added the emphasis here ... this isn't how I like to use safewords on the whole. It's why I like the traffic light system ... orange tells Me the sub is at/near their limit at that time but it isn't STOP NOW! That would be a call of red. I'd be disappointed in Myself to hear red regularly as it would mean I wasn't sufficiently progressive in My play. Hearing red because something unanticipated has cropped up eg sudden feeling of faintness, nausea etc is OK, no problem and I respond fast. Hearing red because the pain applied has suddenly become too intense is not so good and I would be blaming Myself. Red essentially puts the control back in the sub's hands, they have stopped the scene, and yes, time out must be taken to ascertain the problem and remedy it. Play might recommence but not the same activity ... for example, if the red was called when flogging, I might then move to an activity I know the sub enjoys ... wax, bondage etc. Something in which they will calm and regain confidence.

Orange leaves the control in My hands. I can choose whether to stop that activity and move to another, whether to continue that activity but at a lesser intensity (or with more caressing in between strokes etc), or whether to continue at a similar intensity if the mutual desire is to "see how far the sub can go". In My experience, subs can feel very disappointed and let down if their use of the safeword stops EVERYTHING and that might put them off using it again in future.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]


We would have to say yes this is pretty much the system we use except we use yellow where you are using orange.

There is no punishment for using a safe word  in a scene or play situation, and any attempt to do so would wreck the whole concept of the safe word anyway.

That being said, this is not without a caveat;
We are not casual players, we intend all playtoys we consider, to become long term possessions.
These playtoys understand the above, but, if they infract a rule and can not seem to make the needed correction based simply on instruction, and the need for punishment to reinforce our instructions arrises, there are no "safe" safe words during said punishment.
The playtoy could call red during a punishment, but she knows in advance that it would not only end the punishment but also the relationship. Calling "Red" to a punishment the toy could have avoided in the first place is not acceptable.

_____________________________

When I die, I want to go like my grandpa who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like the other three passengers in his car.

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/3/2007 3:54:41 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

I came across the following on another site, it was a poll question yet it disturbed me and made me wonder how many agree with this or do not agree. If you do NOT believe in safewords, then please, do NOT repond to this, I don't want a debate over using or not using safewords. Its a dead horse, no use in beating the carcus any more.
 
"We use 'safe words' during 'playing', but there are penalties for the use of them, and then continue with the activity slowly after the punshment has been administered. what would be the proper punishment/penalty for the use of the safeword?"
 
That was posted by a 'male slave' who is searching for a Mistress if that matters.  I did email this person with what I hope will be a wake up call of sorts. Since his page is basically baren, who knows. Safewords are NOT to be punished as far as I recall; they are a tool to let your partner know what is going on and in punishing someone for using them its counter productive and it can be very dangerious and for lack of a better word, 'ignorant.' Why have a safeword(s) if there is a punishment attached?! Makes NO sence to me.  

Others thoughts on this.. 


What's being described is not the use of  a "safeword" but is a variation on BDSM scenes.  This person is really playing without safewords--the "safe words" in place are in fact merely cues to alter the play along defined parameters.

As long as the top involved understands the dynamic involved, and is comfortable playing without safewords, I do not see where this is much to be concerned about.


_____________________________



(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/3/2007 4:02:49 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well this is pretty much one of the reasons I advocate not using safeword- people turn them into things they aren't meant for, symbols of trust or fear or love or devotion.  They are meant as an indirect communication device.  Once people turn them into something "more" than that, you get these sorts of problems.


Ditto.  I don't play heavily enough with someone to really require safewords, if I don't know them well enough to know how much/far/hard I can push them.

Different people play differently, sure; but why use some sort of 'secret code'?  Safewords are communication tools.  I don't think one should be punished for communicating; but removing the stigma of 'using' a safeword is most easily done, but just removing the word itself. 

On the other hand, I suppose one could take this 'code' and make it kinky.  After all, in a scene, Dominants will often look for reasons to 'punish' (though it's hardly punishment at all.)  I saw a scene the other day when the submissive was clearly, obviously using the wrong term to refer to a female dominant (saying Ma'am, when she repeatedly said to use Miss.)  It was, essentially, to push her buttons so that she'd swat more, harder, etc.  If such a person knows using a 'safeword' will only incur more 'punishment' he might more readily use it.  Seems a little convoluted to me, but the same theory of "any excuse for a party" comes to mind.  The point is, what safewords 'should' mean, only really matter to the people making use of them.

As an aside topic, I also saw a scene where it seemed very clear to me that a new submissive was being pushed quite a bit further than she wanted/expected; yet it was her first time playing in this group, and she had quite a number of people watching.  The stigma of saying 'stop' wasn't going to be breached by any safeword.  I was bothered by it, but I suppose that's the risks one takes when playing at all.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/3/2007 4:15:25 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Sighs

Whatever happened to paying attention to someone as a safeword? Are we really so stupid that we have to rely on a formula instead?

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Using a safeword = Punishment?! - 9/3/2007 4:21:09 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

My opinion is that "no" is a safe word. You say it and hope the dominant stops. We just change it from "no" to "monkey" so that Valyraen and I can have more fun. Not being able to say no and have him ignore it takes a lot of the fun out for both of us.

Now, I would consider abuse of safewords, be it "stop" or "banana", something bad. If they have a dynamic where the submissive can be punished, then I don't see why not. I could understand, and would probably expect, to be punished if I safeworded because I was bored. If I was punished for safewording because I was in pain that he didn't want to inflict? We have an issue to work through.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Using a safeword = Punishment?! Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094