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RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/4/2007 8:02:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Viet Nam on the other hand now has KFC and Micky D

They did it on their own, no help from the enlightened, or in spite of help from the enlightened?  I thought that is what WE were over there fighting for, on their behalf.

Looks like we did some good then.

I'll be goddamned. You don't learn something new every day, if you are an american, I guess.

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/4/2007 9:04:34 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Viet Nam on the other hand now has KFC and Micky D

They did it on their own, no help from the enlightened, or in spite of help from the enlightened?  I thought that is what WE were over there fighting for, on their behalf.

Looks like we did some good then.

I'll be goddamned. You don't learn something new every day, if you are an american, I guess.

Ron


Ron:

thompson

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/4/2007 1:53:22 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
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Status: offline 		So going by Thompsons definitions and logic, we can also say that Hitler was not a dictator, he was elected and legally changed his Constitution.  He also had state media saying everyone was happy there, while violently silencing dissenting media.  I just can't buy into that.

Farg, please read the US constitution (the real one, not your made up one)  and see how the President is elected.  The vote in the electoral college ( the only one that matters) was 100% accountable.  We all realise you consider every president to have been illegitimate. 

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RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/4/2007 3:39:27 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

So going by Thompsons definitions and logic, we can also say that Hitler was not a dictator, he was elected and legally changed his Constitution.  He also had state media saying everyone was happy there, while violently silencing dissenting media.  I just can't buy into that.


.....why on earth not? Hitler was elected and he was a dictator who legally changed his countries rules. He decidely did control the media.  These things are true....what's not to buy?
It is entirely possible for someone to be elected, change the rules and act like a dictator......history is replete with examples......

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RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/4/2007 4:32:20 PM   
Stephann


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From: Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

At least Chavez has the integrity to change the constitution so he can legally do it.  Bush just subverts and or ignores the constitution and does it illegally.


What makes you think Chavez is overly concerned with pesky issues like legality?  If Bush could muster the political base Chavez could (in a country less than 1/10th the size of the US) do you doubt he would have?  Being able to use 'legal' means to assert dictatorial authority, does not make one less a dictator.  How many successful, truly benevolant, and happy countries under long term dictatorships can you recall?

Stephan


 
Stephan:
If you want to call Cuba a dictatorship then I would submit that the people there are pretty happy.
If you want to call Venezuela a dictatorship then I would submit that the people there are pretty happy.
If you want to call Viet Nam a dictatorship then I would submit that the people there are pretty happy.
I will be the first to agree that both Cuba and Venezuela have some problems but those problems are generated by the U.S.
Viet Nam on the other hand now has KFC and Micky D
thompson


Killing, imprisoning, or deporting everyone who disagrees with you seems to go a long way towards dissuading opposition.  This doesn't mean people are happy; it means people don't have the means to think any other way.  Perhaps there's 10 million Chinese, and an equal number of Russians who might disagree with your premise, though.

It's lovely, of course, to say that it's all the US's fault; naturally we don't send billions of dollars of aid to our enemies the way we do our friends.  Perhaps you can show me in the US constitution where our government is obligated to permit trade with hostile states?

Stephan

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Men: Find a Woman here

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RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/4/2007 5:05:45 PM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Philosphy, so was Hitler acting like a dictator or was he one?  I was not buying thompsons definition and logic, which would hold that Hitler was Not a dictator

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/4/2007 10:01:09 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Philosphy, so was Hitler acting like a dictator or was he one?  I was not buying thompsons definition and logic, which would hold that Hitler was Not a dictator


luckydog:
It was your logic and definition that states that Hitler was not a dictator not mine...if you choose to misconstrue what I say at least take credit for your own opinions.
thompson

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RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/4/2007 10:06:04 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They did it on their own, no help from the enlightened, or in spite of help from the enlightened? 



Are you suggesting Ronald McDonald is not enlightened?

Sinergy

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/4/2007 10:17:47 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

At least Chavez has the integrity to change the constitution so he can legally do it.  Bush just subverts and or ignores the constitution and does it illegally.


What makes you think Chavez is overly concerned with pesky issues like legality?  If Bush could muster the political base Chavez could (in a country less than 1/10th the size of the US) do you doubt he would have?  Being able to use 'legal' means to assert dictatorial authority, does not make one less a dictator.  How many successful, truly benevolant, and happy countries under long term dictatorships can you recall?

Stephan


 
Stephan:
If you want to call Cuba a dictatorship then I would submit that the people there are pretty happy.
If you want to call Venezuela a dictatorship then I would submit that the people there are pretty happy.
If you want to call Viet Nam a dictatorship then I would submit that the people there are pretty happy.
I will be the first to agree that both Cuba and Venezuela have some problems but those problems are generated by the U.S.
Viet Nam on the other hand now has KFC and Micky D
thompson


Killing, imprisoning, or deporting everyone who disagrees with you seems to go a long way towards dissuading opposition. 
Who has Castro,Chavez or Thiet killed or deported?
Who has Castro,Chavez or Thiet imprisoned without trial?
 
 
 This doesn't mean people are happy; it means people don't have the means to think any other way.  Perhaps there's 10 million Chinese, and an equal number of Russians who might disagree with your premise, though.
And perhaps not...perhaps there are Americans who are
not happy with their government?
Lets see ten million unhappy Chinese ...something less than 1%of the total population....would you say that more than or less than 1% of the U.S. population is unhappy with our government?

It's lovely, of course, to say that it's all the US's fault; naturally we don't send billions of dollars of aid to our enemies the way we do our friends.  Perhaps you can show me in the US constitution where our government is obligated to permit trade with hostile states?
When has Cuba,Venezuela or Viet Nam ever attacked the U.S.?
When has Cuba,Venezuela or Viet Nam ever tried to overthrow the government of the U.S.?
When has Cuba,Venezuela or Viet Nam ever tried to murder the president of the U.S.?
It would seem to me that it is the U.S. who is the hostile state.

Stephan

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 5:05:31 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They did it on their own, no help from the enlightened, or in spite of help from the enlightened? 



Are you suggesting Ronald McDonald is not enlightened?

Sinergy


No, I am saying he was a dictator.  Plain and simple.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 8:40:22 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

No, I am saying he was a dictator.  Plain and simple.


And the Kool-Aid man is the head of Ronald's secret police - have you seen the way he goes busting into people's houses?  No knock, no warrant...

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 8:46:16 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The Hamburgler has been deposed?

My, my, far eastern politics is such a whirlwind, isn't it? I am glad we are keeping up with the south americans, at least.

Lord Asquith

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 10:23:33 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Philosphy, so was Hitler acting like a dictator or was he one? 


...what possible functional difference is there between the two?

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 10:25:49 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		whether he should receive scale, or get his own agent, and a subsequent royalty taken on the profits.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 10:27:55 AM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

whether he should receive scale, or get his own agent, and a subsequent royalty taken on the profits.


......ahhh, a management issue.......

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 10:29:32 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, maybe you missed the nuance...but with dictators?  it's all about the control, and you can quote me. With the dictator paradigm, you got one shot and one shot only.

Ron Kissinger

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/5/2007 10:30:17 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 10:36:47 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		...with democracy we get an 'X' every few years, bit like a bullet really.......and its effectiveness can range from killer dumdum to dud, just like a bullet too.......

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RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 11:35:55 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		Stephan,

Explain why trade with communist China, a country bent on our economic destruction is fine  at the same time doing everything we can to fuck over Cuba (such as giving welfare to rich fat cat suger growers) which would be a natural trading partner of the US is also the right policy.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 12:48:13 PM   
MasterCom


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Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		It should be said at least once that Chavez is of no real threat to us.

After all, the US wouldn't be able to get him out of office anyway with our military already stuck in Iraq.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Chavez seeks to re-write constitution - 9/5/2007 12:52:17 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We will send 'Panamanian Strong Man Manuel Noriega' a get out of jail free card if the lettuce knifer fucks with us too much. Send him down there to off that little celery stick choppin' motherfucker.

Dick 'Dead Eye' Cheney



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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