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RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/6/2007 7:38:37 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		Oh boy Imma gonna do it, reply to the prostitution thread, against my better judgement.  While I know my training in a lab and degree (magna thank you very much) in biochem help me everyday in my pro-domme life, I do not delude myself that society is in anyway accepting of my profession.  Instead of figuring out how I am different from a prostitute, I am by far more interested in the commonalities so that we might overcome the arcane laws that exist.  However a woman wants to use her pussy is her business, and in a business it might actually be regulated for health.  I am so tired of this Dom vs. Whore argument, in "the real world" we are all complete sexual deviants who should be saved from ourselves, wake the F up!

_____________________________

Philadelphia's premier Enema Nurse
cleaning out America's assholes one at a time

(in reply to SubOscar)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/6/2007 7:42:02 PM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		Ha ha goddess, good reply. I totally agree that the laws are archaic

(in reply to goddessAVA)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/6/2007 9:43:42 PM   
jdtallfem


Posts: 180
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline 		Many many many years ago when I was a Pro Domme, I also ran across men who weren't "getting it" at home, and I often asked, "Have you ever asked your wife to do this?"
And the response always was, "Oh, no, she'd never do this."
Maybe it's different now, but my suspicion is that there is still a severe lack of communication happening on both sides in marriages where, if folks were a bit more honest who knows?  Maybe we wouldn't need so many ProDommes or prostitutes.


(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/6/2007 11:26:40 PM   
Perplex


Posts: 110
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goddessAVA
we might overcome the arcane laws that exist. 


beware when burning down laws that protect a society from itself.  Now your point I agree with, so we have no real arguement, the point I wanted to make is about responsblity, opputunity and that great saving grace we call society.

do you really think there would be a kid born in this country between certain economic brakets if "good girls" could work as prositutes without the stigma or would they go on washing Bif's socks and raising Bif's kids to keep a taste of the good life.  (say what you want to say, Bif still makes more money than all the Muffy's out there, it may nto be fair or right, but it is how it is) and because all the little Muffy's are out there married to one man they want to make damned sure he is going to be there to pay the bills so they make sure prositutes are shamed into the shadows, kinda the same way that Walmart puts all the local stores out of business, its just good economics. 

I said beware, for this, parenting is such a dodgy skill already, take out the implied enforcement of "mummie and daddy" within society and how many psychopaths do you create cuz nobody is giving a damn the baby is crying.  Now let me say this, some of the best mothers I've ever known are prositutues, so I'm not implying that by any stretch of the imagination, but the same way most women would starve if they really had to whore for a living I don't trust most people to be good parents without the "ohmigod what will the neighbors say" factored into things.

but yes I agree with you, I'd love to live in a country where the sex laws could be repealed and not lead to a societal breakdown cuz people would be responsible enough with their own actions to regulate themselves and do the things they need to do. 

quote:

ORGINAL: jdtalfem
And the response always was, "Oh, no, she'd never do this."
Maybe it's different now, but my suspicion is that there is still a severe lack of communication happening on both sides in marriages where, if folks were a bit more honest who knows? 


Somewhere between potty training and graduation people seem to lose the abilty to understand another generation has sex.  It may well be a biological thing, we have civilized ourselves faster than our biology can adapt, but the vast majority of people freak-out when they think of mamma/pappa/grandparents having sex and probably the reverse (against any kind of logic)

It's like my wife, she is a grown intellegent woman but mention her daddy's cumface and you are scraping her off the cieling.  At first I thought it was her, it wasnt' the way I was raised but asking around it seems to be the consensus except for a few of us who just shrug and don't get the big bad.  and all of this translates from mommie and daddy not being to talk to each other about what they want..so talking to a stranger is easier, there is no judgement or something. 

I don't pretend to get it, but if I broke both my arms and couldn't open my fly to pee, I'd ask a friend to undo me before I'd go itno a public bathroom saying "hey dude give me a hand"... eitehr way I might end up with a blackeye or a handjob so at least if my buddy did it, we'd have something to talk about later.  :)

(in reply to goddessAVA)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/6/2007 11:35:33 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SubOscar
Are MasterDoms who use their bdsm skills and services for sex "prostitutes?" Do they prostitute their servicetop skills out for sex?

Like MistressDommes who prostitute their servicetop skills out for payment?


Christine Harcourt, Ph.D., and Basil Donovan, M.D., wrote "The Many Faces of Sex Work" in the June 2005 Sexually Transmitted Infections, which stated:
"At least 25 types of sex work were identified according to worksite, principal mode of soliciting clients, or sexual practices. These types of work are often grouped under the headings of 'direct' and 'indirect' prostitution, with the latter group less likely to be perceived or to perceive themselves as sex workers...."

Indirect Forms of Prostitution
12. Bondage and discipline: sexual fantasy through role play. May involve the inflicting of pain, but genital contact is not routine.  Apparently unique to wealthier countries.

20. Individual arrangements: The single mother who may have sex with her landlord in place of rent. Older sex workers who only deal with a small number of regular clients, by appointment. 'Kept' women or men. Concubines. The number of possible arrangements is vast.  Ubiquitous.

22. Geisha: Women engaged primarily to provide social company, but sex may ensue.  Japanese cities.   http://www.prostitutionprocon.org/questions/classify.htm

quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir
If women would give men what they need and desire in the first place there'd be little need for prostitution.....after all, statistically, hookers' majority of johns are married men who aren't getting what they need at home.... that even goes for the married sub male and pro Domme kink without the sex....women want to keep their men then they need to step up to the plate lol


In 1997, an NIJ-funded study conducted by Martin A. Monto of the University of Portland explored the types of sex-related behavior characteristics of men who solicited prostitutes.

Monto surveyed 1,291 men arrested for soliciting street prostitutes before they participated in FOPP and in similar johns programs in Las Vegas, Nevada; Portland, Oregon; and Santa Clara, California.

Monto found that 72 percent of the men surveyed had attended some college. They ranged in age from 18 to 84 years, with a median age of 37, and were less likely to be married. Although their motives for seeking sex with a prostitute differed, there were similarities among certain groups. Married clients and college graduates were more likely to want a different kind of sex than they had with their regular partners. Steady or unmarried clients and non-college graduates reportedly felt shy and awkward when trying to meet women but did not feel intimidated by prostitutes.    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/journals/255/prostitution_research.html

Whatever your moral view of prostitution is, if you care about the rights of the individual adult to be able to sexpress themself any way they choose, so long as it doesn't infringe upon anyone else's rights, and you don't want a police state telling you what you can and can not do, sexually and in private with another (or more) consenting adult(s), then you might be interested in looking at my post on another thread, regarding the issue of decriminalizing prostitution and promoting sexual freedom, http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1220958, and see the list of organizations, at the bottom of the post, for more information.

Another look at the issue of decriminalizing prostitution is:
Medical professionals press for decriminalisation: British Medical Journal Editorial 13 Jan 2007, Protection of sex workers 
http://www.allwomencount.net/EWC%20Sex%20Workers/BMJreDecriminalisation

Remember:  "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." -- Joseph Joubert.

Hopefully, some progress will be made from this argument.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
______________________________________________________
"Are we there yet?  Not quite.  "We all evolve at our own pace."

(in reply to SubOscar)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 1:01:32 AM   
ocilla


Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		thank you...;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: e01n

quote:

ORIGINAL: ocilla: So you are driving along a seedy down town street and you come to a potato standing with her potato hip cocked, her potato arm on her hip, and bright red lipstick on her potato lips.

And then she says to you, "Idaho".


more Solanum humor was sent to my email... prepare to groan at this as well...

People are like Potatoes
Some people never seem motivated to participate, but are content to watch others do. They are called "Speck Tators."

Some people never do anything to help, but are gifted at finding fault with the way others do things. They're called "Comment Tators."

Some are always looking to cause problems and really get under your skin. They are called "Aggie Tators."

There are those who are always saying they will, but somehow, they never get around to doing. We call them "Hezzie Tators."

Some people put on a front and act like someone else. They're called "Emma Tators."

Then, there are those who walk what they talk. They're always prepared to stop what they're doing to lend a hand to others and bring real sunshine into the lives of others. You can call them "Sweet Tators."

<I feel dirty now. Anyone got a wire brush I can shower with?>


_____________________________

Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder

It takes a kinky village...

(in reply to e01n)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 1:07:35 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		That's very sad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlindDescent

Aside from that, my daughter prostitutes herself for crack and heroin. So at times she is a whore..nasty and rather skank. There is no professional glamour involded here. It's an ugly and dismal transaction. She is in quite deep needless to say.

(in reply to BlindDescent)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 3:04:22 AM   
Perplex


Posts: 110
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perplex

I think I get what you're trying to get at Oscar, pass the easy interpretation of the word prostitution.  The question remains fair though that Stef asked, are plumbers who are putting their skills on the line everyday prosituting themselves, they are using unique skills for money, a doctor the same way, etc.



I have always thought that this is an incredibly weak argument....The difference is a trained profession....Please don't equate someone who is selling what virtually everyone on this planet is born with (cunt, ass, cock, mouth) as having a skill...It is getting by on the lowest common denominator...You are simply willing to make some dollars selling what everyone has but something that all don't feel they can acquire. It doesn't rely on talent or a remarkably refined skill or craft...Does it fill a void?...Definitely.  Should it be praised or endorsed? No way....It is something that I wouldn't bring up as a viable craft or trade to any child that I would ever meet.

So those that view prostitution as the same as someone in the arts or a plumber...Then it seems that you should be willing to sit down with your daughters and nieces and explain to them the virtues of selling their ass holes, vaginas and mouths....


true, most everyone is born with the ability to have sex.
and most people are born with the ability and native intellegence to do plumbing or be a doctor...training aside....  I mean if all you want is a girl* to lie there, then that's up to you, but if I was paying for sex I'd want a little style...(it's like las vegas eggs, at 12.95, they better dance...they're eggs, which you can get at waffle house for two bucks with grits) but maybe we're different, nuthin wrong with that

but as far as sitting down with sons and daughters to explain teh value of selling their bodies, ok I agree with you, but mebbe at the same time talk to them about giving thier bodies away to paralysis when they want to do something they saw that was really cool on tv or giving away thier minds cuz they are following the preaching of some radio talking head who is looking for future martyrs to the cause.

*boys, women, men, insert whatever personal plumbing suits you here

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 5:32:49 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		i don't know, but i thank god everyday for them!

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubOscar

Are MasterDoms who use their bdsm skills and services for sex "prostitutes?" Do they prostitute their servicetop skills out for sex?

Like MistressDommes who prostitute their servicetop skills out for payment?


(in reply to SubOscar)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 6:08:32 AM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		Definition of Prostitute from Marriam Webster's Online Dictionary Main Entry: 1pros·ti·tute
Pronunciation: 'präs-t&-"tüt, -"tyüt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -tut·ed; -tut·ing
Etymology: Latin prostitutus, past participle of prostituere, from pro- before + statuere to station -- more at PRO-, STATUTE
1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money
2 : to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes : DEBASE <prostitute one's talents>
- pros·ti·tu·tor /-"tü-t&r, -"tyü-/ noun

I have said this for years, many of us, who are working for corporations, businesses, ect. are in fact prostituuting ourselves for our jobs.  We get money for working those jobs.  From this definition, prostitute can mean something other than sexual activities that involve money.

My question is this:  What makes working for our jobs, giving our bodies & our minds to our jobs for money, so much different than prostituting ourselves with sex for money?  Who made the distinction?  And why should we except something just because someone or a group of someone's decided it is so? 

Prostitutes for money risk their health in the form of sexual diseases & sometimes safety in order to get paid for what they do. 
Workers for money risk their health with the chemicals they use, or are around.  They risk their backs, their feet, their wrists, their eyes..... They risk accidents & injury for their pay, the same as a prostitute for money, but in different ways. 

According to definition number 2, "to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes. Debase, prostitute one's talents (which, by the way, money is not even mentioned), how many of us devote our talents to unworthy bosses, businesses, or corporations? 

(in reply to SubOscar)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 6:56:16 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

Definition of Prostitute from Marriam Webster's Online Dictionary Main Entry: 1pros·ti·tute
Pronunciation: 'präs-t&-"tüt, -"tyüt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -tut·ed; -tut·ing
Etymology: Latin prostitutus, past participle of prostituere, from pro- before + statuere to station -- more at PRO-, STATUTE
1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money
2 : to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes : DEBASE <prostitute one's talents>
- pros·ti·tu·tor /-"tü-t&r, -"tyü-/ noun

I have said this for years, many of us, who are working for corporations, businesses, ect. are in fact prostituuting ourselves for our jobs.  We get money for working those jobs.  From this definition, prostitute can mean something other than sexual activities that involve money.

My question is this:  What makes working for our jobs, giving our bodies & our minds to our jobs for money, so much different than prostituting ourselves with sex for money?  Who made the distinction?  And why should we except something just because someone or a group of someone's decided it is so? 

Prostitutes for money risk their health in the form of sexual diseases & sometimes safety in order to get paid for what they do. 
Workers for money risk their health with the chemicals they use, or are around.  They risk their backs, their feet, their wrists, their eyes..... They risk accidents & injury for their pay, the same as a prostitute for money, but in different ways. 

According to definition number 2, "to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes. Debase, prostitute one's talents (which, by the way, money is not even mentioned), how many of us devote our talents to unworthy bosses, businesses, or corporations? 




balance i just do not undrestand why people do not get the simple things in life.
redefine something and add to the moral meaning of something and make it mud
anything sexual in nature that is exchanged for money just that simple that law is very to the point on it. it dose not matter what dictionary thing people come up with
it is still the law and every state has a different written form of it

(in reply to MissIsis)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 10:58:18 AM   
Perplex


Posts: 110
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		MissIsis,

I really like you, that was a great post.  it puts me in mind of one of my favorite quotes: "it benefits a man not at all to trade his soul for the whole world...but for Whales"

Nobody sees themselves as the bad guy, it doesn't matter if they just signed the paperwork to put  a family on the street or shreded the documents that hid the boss's hand in a chemical spill they were just "following orders" or doing what they had to...but then they drive home in thier happy little hybrids and try not to stare if they pass a cornerfull of pimps & streetwalkers knowing they are at least not so morally bankrupt as to "that" for a living. 

sometimes the world is so backwards ya gotta believe god rode the short bus to school. 

(in reply to MissIsis)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 1:49:49 PM   
Dom87110


Posts: 102
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ocilla
California defines prostitution as a
“lewd act for money or other consideration”
A lewd act is…. The touching of breasts, buttocks or genitals for the purpose of sexual gratification OR arousal


With California's divorce laws, this sure makes a lot of  "respectable" wives into instant ho's.

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: ocilla
What is “other consideration”?
The California State Supreme Court ruled that “other consideration” can be something as innocuous as someone mowing your lawn..... and then coming inside and touching your breasts..... buttocks or genitals and becoming aroused - but not necessarily having sex......


WHOOHOO! I was an underage hooker - mowing my neighbor lady's lawn for the BJs she gave me!

Someone else in this thread provocatively stated that this would make massage therapists hookers. With the legal research my company does, I have actually run across state statutes (from the South - SHOCKER) that disallow massage therapists from practiticing, because by definition "touching someone else's body for money" massages are prostitution.

_____________________________

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

Oscar Wilde


That's not what I meant by "where the sun don't shine". But it looks good there, too.

Me

(in reply to ocilla)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 1:54:37 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

um yep anything that is sexual paid for service

I disagree.  Because a professional (paid) Domme/Dom engages in sexual play with a submissive does not make it prostitution.  BDSM is SEX!  Sometimes we want to act like it isn't because hets seem to think if it's not fucking it's not sex.

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Top servicing: for the money or for the sex (is it... - 9/7/2007 1:58:48 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

Definition of Prostitute from Marriam Webster's Online Dictionary Main Entry: 1pros·ti·tute
Pronunciation: 'präs-t&-"tüt, -"tyüt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -tut·ed; -tut·ing
Etymology: Latin prostitutus, past participle of prostituere, from pro- before + statuere to station -- more at PRO-, STATUTE
1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money
2 : to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes : DEBASE <prostitute one's talents>
- pros·ti·tu·tor /-"tü-t&r, -"tyü-/ noun

I have said this for years, many of us, who are working for corporations, businesses, ect. are in fact prostituuting ourselves for our jobs.  We get money for working those jobs.  From this definition, prostitute can mean something other than sexual activities that involve money.

My question is this:  What makes working for our jobs, giving our bodies & our minds to our jobs for money, so much different than prostituting ourselves with sex for money?  Who made the distinction?  And why should we except something just because someone or a group of someone's decided it is so? 

Prostitutes for money risk their health in the form of sexual diseases & sometimes safety in order to get paid for what they do. 
Workers for money risk their health with the chemicals they use, or are around.  They risk their backs, their feet, their wrists, their eyes..... They risk accidents & injury for their pay, the same as a prostitute for money, but in different ways. 

According to definition number 2, "to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes. Debase, prostitute one's talents (which, by the way, money is not even mentioned), how many of us devote our talents to unworthy bosses, businesses, or corporations? 




balance i just do not undrestand why people do not get the simple things in life.
redefine something and add to the moral meaning of something and make it mud
anything sexual in nature that is exchanged for money just that simple that law is very to the point on it. it dose not matter what dictionary thing people come up with
it is still the law and every state has a different written form of it

Okay Latexbaby let's set the script:
You attend a fundraiser for a local BDSM event for a leather run.
There is play going on in fact there's some handballing and fisting happening.

Since money was exchanged to attend this function and the donation was given directly to the Domme/Dom who "topped" what transpired is prostitution.

Or let's make it simple.
You attend a fundraiser for a local BDSM event for a upcoming leather run.
There is play going on and it's strictly cock and ball torture as well as some heavy rope work and flogging

Since money was exchanged to attend this function and the donation was given directly to the Domme/Dom who "topped" what transpired is prostitution.

It's all or nothing in my opinion and I don't believe a Domme/Dom who tops and may incorporate sex play in it considered prostitution.

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 55
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