quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Good to know. I appreciate that (I do). I will remember that. 

- Susan

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Ya' know, I do think that some people pattern their lives after what they saw growing up. I reall do think this kind of thing can be out of some people's awareness. 

I used to (at one time) think it was my job to "make the past okay" for them, help them deal, etc - but if somebody puts up loads of resistance, and they're not interested in reasons, they just want money or to sob incessantly (over and over), then why should anyone strain themseleves trying to help?

- Susan

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I appreciate all of the responses - but how do people tell who genuinely needs a "rescue" and who doesn't? (maybe we've covered that. It's getting late, and it's been a long day for me. My apologies if it has been).

I know I've had one or two instances (or more) in my own life where I was genuinely very upsey at something, or at a loss re: What to do (and I am not a "wimp" , and generally want to stand on my own two feet). Fortunately, I had some people I could turn to for help.

But anyway, I am concerned now that maybe some new people reading this will think ever asking for help is somehow wrong (or maybe I am flatterring myself. And of course , everyone's relationship is different and is none of my business) BUT -

***How do you know if it's a "genuine need" or just someone "crying wolf", or being manipulative?

Experience with the person in question? I am asking if that is the only way to tell - or id people have some "policy they use to judge these situations...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

leatherette: Good point. I don't think one needs to necessarly limit their generosity. It's when is it dangerous? that is the question. Ever? I think it can sometimes be if one is trying to relate to a partner who is basically dysfunctional, or who has ulterior motives not in one's best interest, despite all protests to the contrary. But you make a good point about slaves being giving and proud of it. The idea that their service is somehow "less than" has always been ludicrous to me. I think they probably make many Dominants feel very worthwhile, and in that way "rescue" them in a good sense.

Hi again Susan  

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

if somebody puts up loads of resistance, and they're not interested in reasons or getting help or therapy, they just want money, or to sob to you incessantly about whatever (over and over), then why should anyone strain themseleves trying to help?
- Susan

quote:


To "fix" anyone, growth must be promoted. There is no improvement without change, and change is growth.

The problem with the "white knight" syndrome is it's need to find victims. This can lead it to insist someone is a victim when in fact the individual is not a victim.

In that case, the "white knight" becomes the victimizer, insisting the individual needs help and providing the help the "white knight" insists is required.

But the individual was not a victim until the "white knight" came along and insisted the individual was a victim.

Insisting on giving 'help' when real help is not required nor desired and insisting someone is being victimized when in fact he or she is not a victim clearly demonstrates a belief on the part of the "white knight" that he or she knows better than the individual identified as a "victim".

That demonstrates that the "white knight" syndrome is closely linked to elitism, which in itself is linked to egotism, which is linked to insecurity.

If the "white knight" had no victims to be rescued, the purpose of being a "white knight" would end, and what would be the purpose of life after that which would provide the same ego-gratification of 'saving another victim'?

Being a "white knight" is a trap. The "white knight" ends up inventing victims.

The basic problem with "white knight" syndrome is the inability of the individual to see beyond their "good/evil, black/white" dichotomy. "You're either with us or ag'in us" kind of mentality.

Which is why "white knights" can be found in the form of posses, with kangaroo courts dealing out vigilante justice.

They all want to find victims they can save. That means they also have to find victimizers, even if they have to invent -them-.

After all, you can't invent a "victim" unless you also invent the counterpart: the "victimizer".

And because there are several of them all seeking victims and victimizers, it becomes easy to convince each other they've found one.

Its a self-sustaining delusion.

This isn't to say there aren't real victims and victimizers out there.

But I think most normal folk aren't going out of their way to root them out. They address these situations as they arise.

The "white knight" is addicted: driven by the thrill of drama. The hunt, the chase, the kill, the glory.

Even if they have to enact it on those who are neither victim nor victimizer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
snipped for length
To the audience at large:

How do you feel when members of the so-called BDSM 'community' persecute other members of the 'community' through witch hunts, kangaroo courts, and similar methods?

What of the many white knights we have here who love to tell you who is "twue" and who is not? Are you grateful to have self-appointed 'judges' to tell you what to think of others?

What of those who take quotes out of context so as to misrepresent individuals and 'warn' you away from them? Does the fact they need to manufacture their own 'evidence' bother you, or is it okay with you?

How does that kind of behaviour promote mental health within the bdsm 'community', or does it matter to you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
snipped for length
To the audience at large:

How do you feel when members of the so-called BDSM 'community' persecute other members of the 'community' through witch hunts, kangaroo courts, and similar methods?

What of the many white knights we have here who love to tell you who is "twue" and who is not? Are you grateful to have self-appointed 'judges' to tell you what to think of others?

What of those who take quotes out of context so as to misrepresent individuals and 'warn' you away from them? Does the fact they need to manufacture their own 'evidence' bother you, or is it okay with you?

How does that kind of behaviour promote mental health within the bdsm 'community', or does it matter to you?

Are you talking about CM when you mention community? If so I have seen very little evidence of witch hunts or kangaroo courts here. What I have seen is people feeling able to post their own opinions on matters and having those opinions discussed. I have also seen those that attempt to bring their own "one true way" challenged on their insistence that theirs is the only way. I have also seen those that are inconsistent in their views challenged by those that have noticed their inconsistencies.

I have also seen you mention on a number of occassions that you feel "persecuted" by others here. Perhaps you need to consider what and how you post if you always feel that others are doing so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
snipped for length
To the audience at large:

How do you feel when members of the so-called BDSM 'community' persecute other members of the 'community' through witch hunts, kangaroo courts, and similar methods?

What of the many white knights we have here who love to tell you who is "twue" and who is not? Are you grateful to have self-appointed 'judges' to tell you what to think of others?

What of those who take quotes out of context so as to misrepresent individuals and 'warn' you away from them? Does the fact they need to manufacture their own 'evidence' bother you, or is it okay with you?

How does that kind of behaviour promote mental health within the bdsm 'community', or does it matter to you?

Are you talking about CM when you mention community? If so I have seen very little evidence of witch hunts or kangaroo courts here. What I have seen is people feeling able to post their own opinions on matters and having those opinions discussed. I have also seen those that attempt to bring their own "one true way" challenged on their insistence that theirs is the only way. I have also seen those that are inconsistent in their views challenged by those that have noticed their inconsistencies.

I have also seen you mention on a number of occassions that you feel "persecuted" by others here. Perhaps you need to consider what and how you post if you always feel that others are doing so.

"All Animals Are Created Equal, But Some Are More Equal Than Others." - Animal Farm by George Orwell.

"The anger of a serial bully is especially apparent when they come across someone who can see through them to espy the weak, inadequate, immature, dysfunctional aggressive individual behind the mask."

"The objectives of bullies are Power, Control, Domination, Subjugation. They get a kick out of seeing you react. It doesn't matter how you react, the fact they've successful provoked a reaction is, to the bully, a sign that their attempt at control have been successful. After that, it's a question of wearing you down. The more you try to explain, negotiate, conciliate, etc the more gratification they obtain from your increasingly desperate attempts to communicate with them. Understand that it is not possible to communicate in a mature adult manner with a disordered individual who's emotionally retarded."

http://www.bullyonline.org/related/cyber.htm

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
snipped for length
To the audience at large:

How do you feel when members of the so-called BDSM 'community' persecute other members of the 'community' through witch hunts, kangaroo courts, and similar methods?

What of the many white knights we have here who love to tell you who is "twue" and who is not? Are you grateful to have self-appointed 'judges' to tell you what to think of others?

What of those who take quotes out of context so as to misrepresent individuals and 'warn' you away from them? Does the fact they need to manufacture their own 'evidence' bother you, or is it okay with you?

How does that kind of behaviour promote mental health within the bdsm 'community', or does it matter to you?

Are you talking about CM when you mention community? If so I have seen very little evidence of witch hunts or kangaroo courts here. What I have seen is people feeling able to post their own opinions on matters and having those opinions discussed. I have also seen those that attempt to bring their own "one true way" challenged on their insistence that theirs is the only way. I have also seen those that are inconsistent in their views challenged by those that have noticed their inconsistencies.

I have also seen you mention on a number of occassions that you feel "persecuted" by others here. Perhaps you need to consider what and how you post if you always feel that others are doing so.

"All Animals Are Created Equal, But Some Are More Equal Than Others." - Animal Farm by George Orwell.

"The anger of a serial bully is especially apparent when they come across someone who can see through them to espy the weak, inadequate, immature, dysfunctional aggressive individual behind the mask."

"The objectives of bullies are Power, Control, Domination, Subjugation. They get a kick out of seeing you react. It doesn't matter how you react, the fact they've successful provoked a reaction is, to the bully, a sign that their attempt at control have been successful. After that, it's a question of wearing you down. The more you try to explain, negotiate, conciliate, etc the more gratification they obtain from your increasingly desperate attempts to communicate with them. Understand that it is not possible to communicate in a mature adult manner with a disordered individual who's emotionally retarded."

http://www.bullyonline.org/related/cyber.htm

Perhaps you would like to explain exactly how that relates to what I posted. Or are you now suggesting that I am a bully for calling you out on what you said. If you cannot open your mind to others opinions bobby boy then you have a lot to learn from people here.