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Online Slavery - 9/6/2007 12:36:48 PM

dvart

Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline

Today I saw another profile that mentioned "online slavery".

The point of this post isn't to be judgemental.

As far as I can see nobody is really hurt by online slavery and I am all for people having the freedom to do what they want, but I am genuinely perplexed as to what someone would get out of such a situation unless it was a preliminarily step to something real.

This is what I wrote to the Lesbian poster.

"I hope you won't object to a question from a Male Dom. I have seen mention of online slavery before and have never understood what it means. If you want to be a slave then surely it makes sense to serve your mistress in a physical sense ?
I can absolutely understand being cautious and wanting to know someone better before you even meet, but I don't understand what a permanent state of online slavery can possibly MEAN.

You seem to be a genuine person and so I assume this isn't just a fantasy.

If you were straight and my slave then I would want to insist on you being naked, put you in bondage, punish you if necessary, choose you clothes, order food for you, get pleasure from you sexually and experience you physical presence and smell. That is a meaningful slavery for me. By giving up your power to me, you should have the freedom to experience something extraordinary, I can't see how this can happen online.

I am not trying to trip you up or criticise, but what you ask doesn't make sense to me and I feel it might be quite destructive for you.

Sorry to be negative, but I am genuinely interested in you reply."

Post #: 1

RE: Online Slavery - 9/6/2007 1:00:04 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I understand that you cannot understand authority exchange unless it is expressed through direct physical action.

I can call my partner up right now, tell him to go to the store and buy all the ingredients for a large and complex dinner and have them prepped and ready for me to cook by the time I get home.

I can also email him to do that.

I can also email him to tell him to go to his friends place and do that for them if perhaps they have emailed me and said they are tired tonight and don't want to cook.

I understand that you do not consider any of those situations to be submission, but they are to me.

Service can take many forms- what one person requires is not what another does. I choose not to be in a relationship with someone I cannot see just about any time I want, but that is merely my own preferences after WAY too many LDRs.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_330497/mpage_1/key_online%252Ctraining/tm.htm#330497
subs or slaves online

http://www.collarchat.com/m_196019/mpage_1/key_online%252Ctraining/tm.htm#196019
online training vs real life training

http://www.collarchat.com/m_196019/mpage_1/key_online%252Ctraining/tm.htm#196019
online slaves

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 2

RE: Online Slavery - 9/6/2007 1:12:23 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

Today I saw another profile that mentioned "online slavery". Since you use the word 'another', I feel safe in saying that you have found more profiles mentioning online slavery? So there are at least some out there that use it.

The point of this post isn't to be judgemental.

As far as I can see nobody is really hurt by online slavery and I am all for people having the freedom to do what they want, but I am genuinely perplexed as to what someone would get out of such a situation unless it was a preliminarily step to something real.
Being 'hurt' isn't always a part of a M/s relationship, often it can be about the mental and emotional energy being utilised.

This is what I wrote to the Lesbian poster.
So.. you chose a lesbian looking for something you don't understand and asked her :
"I hope you won't object to a question from a Male Dom. I have seen mention of online slavery before and have never understood what it means. If you want to be a slave then surely it makes sense to serve your mistress in a physical sense ?
I can absolutely understand being cautious and wanting to know someone better before you even meet, but I don't understand what a permanent state of online slavery can possibly MEAN.

You seem to be a genuine person and so I assume this isn't just a fantasy.

If you were straight and my slave then I would want to insist on you being naked, put you in bondage, punish you if necessary, choose you clothes, order food for you, get pleasure from you sexually and experience you physical presence and smell. That is a meaningful slavery for me. By giving up your power to me, you should have the freedom to experience something extraordinary, I can't see how this can happen online.

I am not trying to trip you up or criticise, but what you ask doesn't make sense to me and I feel it might be quite destructive for you.

Sorry to be negative, but I am genuinely interested in you reply."

You state this is not a judgemental post yet you admit at the end that it was a negative post. Oy vey lol. Okay.. not every one needs or wants or can have a relationship that is physical. Lots prefer the brain/emotional aspect of D/s.

Destructive to the person posting the ad? Um, honestly it sounds like you say the only way to have a M/s is to do it the way you do. That you are willing to put yourself out there to save her and teach her the wonders of submission thru bondage with you.

Yeah yeah I screwed up using the quote box I know

. So colored font, underlining & italics are by me. Heh.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 3

RE: Online Slavery - 9/6/2007 1:26:25 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

It is a to each there own thing. Just because for some/most who want and/or live this life in real time does not mean that people cannot get something whether just a part or something very significant from doing this type of thing.

Whether limitations in a person’s life, the first step in the journey toward real life or if it is what the person are truly into if it works for two people then what is the problem?

It is like everything else in this world if both people have the same expectations and are responsible to the other and themselves why is this so strange to anything else? It is just not for you, me and many others does not make it.

We can cloudy it up by including our own scenarios or expectations but in the end if two people want and like then good for them.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 4

RE: Online Slavery - 9/6/2007 1:32:06 PM

Dom87110

Posts: 102
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I understand that you cannot understand authority exchange unless it is expressed through direct physical action.
I can call my partner up right now, tell him to go to the store and buy all the ingredients for a large and complex dinner and have them prepped and ready for me to cook by the time I get home.
I can also email him to do that.
I can also email him to tell him to go to his friends place and do that for them if perhaps they have emailed me and said they are tired tonight and don't want to cook.

LA - do you think you would feel the same level of fulfillment if all these interactions did not already have a solid foundation, history of, and realism of feeling that comes from the relationship existing in the "real" world?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Service can take many forms- what one person requires is not what another does.

Someone can be of service to me without having submitted to me. Personally, I strongly distinguish between servitude and submission.

I can fully understand the OP, since for me, online submission by itself without real life, physical interaction is like watching a movie about eating when I am hungry. Appetizing, but not fulfilling.

Gus

_____________________________

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

Oscar Wilde

That's not what I meant by "where the sun don't shine". But it looks good there, too.

Me

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 5

RE: Online Slavery - 9/6/2007 1:33:40 PM

dvart

Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I understand that you cannot understand authority exchange unless it is expressed through direct physical action.

You mistunderstood. You see your partner in reality sometimes.

I can understand a relationship that is purely mental. I can understand online elements to a real relationship. I can even understand an online relationship when two people are physically far apart. But what I can't understand is why someone would choose online only slavery.

Apart from anything else how can the "slavery" be monitored? How can the "owner" really be sure that the "slave" is really being a slave?

In my book nothing beats being in the same room as someone else. I don't have a problem with online slavery, I just don't understand it at all

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 6

RE: Online Slavery - 9/6/2007 1:35:00 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dom87110
LA - do you think you would feel the same level of fulfillment if all these interactions did not already have a solid foundation, history of, and realism of feeling that comes from the relationship existing in the "real" world?

It has for me in the past. I chose to stop being in LDRs and relationships where the primary communication through email was a lack of growth and change- not lack of depth and solidity.

quote:

Someone can be of service to me without having submitted to me. Personally, I strongly distinguish between servitude and submission.

[
Excellent point, and one I often make myself. Please amend my prior post to read "submission" rather than "service."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Dom87110)

Post #: 7

RE: Online Slavery - 9/6/2007 1:39:38 PM

Dom87110

Posts: 102
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I chose to stop being in LDRs and relationships where the primary communication through email was a lack of growth and change- not lack of depth and solidity.

Excellent point! Email exchange, text messaging, phone calls throughout the day with assignment of small acts of servitude are an excellent supplement to a physical, real world relationship. Yet as the primary means of interaction and of living the relationship, it poses substantial hurdles and limits to relationship, interpersonal and skills growth.

_____________________________

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

Oscar Wilde

That's not what I meant by "where the sun don't shine". But it looks good there, too.

Me

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 8

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 1:32:32 AM

littlespike

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Austin
Status: offline

I think that on-line slavery is a great idea. I mean online you can play as much as you want and never turn black and blue......

Spike

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 9

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 2:03:10 AM

twistedkytten

Posts: 240
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline

I have known married people that the spouse was vanilla and allowed only online interactions-
I have known people wanting to play without paying (no bruises)
For me, when I was just beginning... the only way I could learn was online. it was a great source of information ... that was the beginning... *g*

(in reply to littlespike)

Post #: 10

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 2:17:53 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Hi

There are many reasons why pepole might be owned online. For some it is the only option, they can only experience any kind of D/s online due to family situations or where they live and so on.Also sometimes their Master live so far away it is dificult to visit him or her regulary and allot of the comunication is online. There is allot of reasons. i say the same as when it comes to online Occult instruction. Yes face to face real life touch and feel might be best, but if that is not possible, online is for many better than nothing.

i wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 11

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 5:44:09 AM

xaria

Posts: 97
Joined: 1/24/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Greetings,

Well, i have read through all of the comments and re-read the original post. i am mostly an online slave in most peoples eyes, i would say. i don't see myself fully in that sense. i started learning about the lifestyle in 2004. i was introduced to it via online. Since then, i have been through many that have trained me, but none have come as close to bringing as much real life service and submission as my current Master.

i understand in some ways why most wouldn't see what someone learning online would get from a LDR. my Master is a long, long distance away, but i submit to Him every day. Sure, it's not sexual (yet), but i do submit to Him. Since when does submission come in the form of sex and carrying out tasks that need to be personally witnessed?

You need an example. Ok, i can provide a vivid one for you. i am to write my Master each day via an email. i am to tell Him what i did during the day, including chores and other activities. He is also helping me lose weight, so He monitors my weight, bedtimes/wake-times, and even what i eat. He would know if i'm not telling the truth. Of course, personally speaking, i don't want to test that, so i don't lie to Him. Why lie to someone i care about, when i know that He's helping me to achieve something that will make me better? Why lie when i know that He'll figure it out that i am? Why chance being caught in a lie that will be highly punished?

Ok, so that may raise new questions. How does He punish me when i am so far away? Well, He has contacts with Dom's in my area that will instantly come to assist in my physical punishment, but He has since found a worse way of punishing me. He removes Himself from talking to me for an allotted time. We talk online in a chat-room, email, and also on the phone.

i will not pretend that it isn’t hard on either one of us, but our relationship is very strong. He has gotten to know my personality before my body. i feel we’ll have a much longer, stronger relationship than some that make this lifestyle out to be all about the physical.

It works for us, but i’m sure it’s not the type of relationship for everyone. It depends on strength and willpower. i am an obedient slave, because i know my place. i know where i want to be. By following what He requires of me, i am submitting to His power and command. i am just using this time away from Him to learn to become the slave He will expect me to be when we meet real life.

i can only echo what others have said here. Those that wish to remain as online slaves only, are probably in situations that won’t allow them to take it further. i feel I am living proof that an online relationship can work if both sides are truthful, honest, and loyal to each other. So, why should that be looked down on or seem so controversial just because it doesn’t seem as in-depth as a real time relationship?

Respectfully...

xaria - Property of Xavier

(in reply to nephandi)

Post #: 12

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 6:23:34 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart
I am not trying to trip you up or criticise, but what you ask doesn't make sense to me and I feel it might be quite destructive for you.

Protestations of being nonjudgemental notwithstanding, the bolded text IS a judgement.

One which is made worse by a complete and utter lack of supporting reason and argument.....and by the fact that it's really none of anyone's damned business.

_____________________________

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 13

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 6:28:20 AM

servantheart

Posts: 960
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

Until I met my current Master, I served online only. This was because I was attempting to fulfill my need to serve as a slave while keeping my marriage intact, since my husband is 100% vanilla and has no interest in me serving him as his slave. While it is true that online slavery is different in that there is no physical contact between Master and slave, for some it is the only option available. Believe me, there are ways of making a slave feel every bit as owned as one would in r/l. It definitely helps, too, if Master and slave can communicate via webcam and voice chat. The emotional intensity and attachment is real and I feel it takes a strong committment to make online slavery work. In r/l, a slave has her Master close at hand to provide near-constant guidance, but with online slavery, the slave must be very self-disciplined and focused. My Master was involved in every aspect of my life. Nothing was hidden from Him and if I messed up, I was punished as any other slave would be. Online slavery can be very successful as long as those involved are completely honest with themselves and each other about the limitations of their situation and realistic in their expectations of each other.

Taryn

_____________________________

When you really trust someone, you have to be okay with not understanding some things.
~Real Live Preacher, Real Live Preacher weblog, 07-08-04; Anonymous author of RealLivePreacher.com

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 14

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 6:40:53 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart
Apart from anything else how can the "slavery" be monitored? How can the "owner" really be sure that the "slave" is really being a slave?

In my book nothing beats being in the same room as someone else. I don't have a problem with online slavery, I just don't understand it at all

To be blunt, I would venture to say you do not understand much about power exchange and slavery period, online or otherwise.

"Slavery" as a relationship choice is NOT telling someone to get naked, or to perform sexual acts, or employing physical restraint. Such dynamics MAY be a component of a power exchange dynamic, but are not inherently so.

Quite frankly, I restrain my slaves very rarely. Oftentimes if I desire to flog them, I require them to remain motionless without the aid of physical restraint--I enjoy the psychological dynamic of such a scene. The point of which is to emphasize that bondage is not a requisite element of TPE.

Neither is nudity. Nor being waited on hand and foot. Nor ordering in a restaurant. Is my slave any less my slave because I choose to enjoy making stuffed bell peppers for dinner rather than having her cook lasagna?

The reality of TPE is that NONE of the examples you site are requisite elements for the relationship dynamic. They are merely possible behaviors arising from the dynamic. Other behaviors that do not require direct physical contact are equally possible, and occur in relationships as a matter of routine.

It is a given that online relationships are structurally unable to address the psychological needs for physical contact...for touching another human being...and in that regard I for one certainly prefer direct relationship over the online variety. However, preference does not negate reality. The psychodynamics of an online relationship are every bit as real as those with direct physical interaction between the parties--especially to the participants within those dynamics.

Which is a long winded way of coming to a simple point. You don't get online relationships...so what?

_____________________________

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 15

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 7:10:56 AM

xaria

Posts: 97
Joined: 1/24/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

It is a given that online relationships are structurally unable to address the psychological needs for physical contact...for touching another human being...

i agree with 99.9% of what you say, because i feel you really "get" the gist of a M/s relationship and even online ones. i can understand why your preference is for a real time relationship over online ones. my only thing is, don't forget that some online ones only start online to move to offline. So, an online is far from "unable to address the psychological needs for physical contact...", because i feel, again, that i am living proof. my Master also allows people that meet His and my husbands tests to have contact with me in a physical situation of their choice.

Of course, i am a special case, i guess. And it is, at this time, something that He and i are unable to meet. Though, in the near'ish future, that wall will tumble, too. i will one day meet my Master and no longer be an online slave for Him. We will get that full connection we've both worked to build. i slightly, selfishly feel He will know me better than some know their real time slaves that have been together for a long time. That's simply because He got to know *me* before getting to know my body. Some don't get that chance. They dive straight in without getting to know each other.

By no means am i criticizing you. i just kind of wanted you to see "the other side of the coin", so to say. For, i think you made many good points in your post. i was smiling while reading your comments. i wish you well.

< Message edited by xaria -- 9/7/2007 7:11:31 AM >

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
xaria - Property of Xavier
House of Logos

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 16

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 7:13:48 AM

xaria

Posts: 97
Joined: 1/24/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantheart

Online slavery can be very successful as long as those involved are completely honest with themselves and each other about the limitations of their situation and realistic in their expectations of each other.

Taryn

i wanted to give you kudos! You said it very well! :)

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
xaria - Property of Xavier
House of Logos

(in reply to servantheart)

Post #: 17

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 7:39:02 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xaria
my only thing is, don't forget that some online ones only start online to move to offline. So, an online is far from "unable to address the psychological needs for physical contact...", because i feel, again, that i am living proof.

Having had relationship move from on to offline myself (and back again, on occasion), I hear what you're saying.

I perhaps should have been more precise and confined that assessment strictly to the "online" paradigm.

In any case, there should never be any debate that the validity of a relationship structure is determined by the participants within, not by casual observers without.

_____________________________

(in reply to xaria)

Post #: 18

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 8:32:31 AM

MsLilac

Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
Status: offline

With the rather specific nature of what people on sites such as these are looking for in their personal relationships, and with the internet, LDR are increasingly common. To me a I would assume a LDR to be people who meet as often as they can, circumstances allowing, but for the most part interact through the modern communication age, interenet/cam/text/phone, etc. I don’t think this is what you are referring to is it? Cause if it is, I would have to disagree. Online is an INVALUABLE tool in these cases.

I think you are referring to strictly ‘online’ communication. No personal details, no physical interaction other than tits/chest and ass on cam. If that is it, well, that’s because some people are just looking to get their rocks off, without the commitment. Could be many reasons for this. Either are married/attached, they live in a fantasy world, are in the closet and/or like and feel secure in the limitations of this kind of communication, use it for 1 dimensional wank fodder… many many reasons, it could even be a man posing. I don’t get it either, it doesn’t work for me, but each to their own.

So my guess is: a quick fix of tits and ass basically.

I do feel that despite all the assertions to the contrary, you were being judgemental. I wouldn’t be surprise if you get a ’none of your damned business’ kind of reply. Cause lets face it, other peoples desires and how they conduct their personal relationships are none of our damn business. It was rather presumptuous of you to feel you could debate this with her.

……in my opinion. Not trying to be judgemental or anything ;-) lol.

_____________________________

I’m sorry, I don’t do autographs

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 19

RE: Online Slavery - 9/7/2007 9:40:58 AM

all4yourplsr

Posts: 156
Joined: 4/5/2005
Status: offline

I have now had experiences with 2 Mistresses with me being the online sub/slave. Personally, I think that if you are submitting to their wishes, commands, or desires, it doesn't matter whether or not it is in person or online. I derive great satisfaction knowing that my Mistress is pleased with whatever I do. On the other hand, I derive great sadness if she is displeased. Those feelings can happen whether or not she is standing over me.

ed

(in reply to MsLilac)

Post #: 20

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