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RE: Costco sign - 9/7/2007 7:01:52 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		How enlightening.  I had never heard of Stalin before, much less Pol Pot or Mao Zedong.  Thank you for informing me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:


We live in a society of laws.


Legislation does not equal justice. Stalin had laws. Pol Pot had laws. Mao Zedong had laws. Laws are cheap, and they consolidate power. Separating right from wrong is incidental at best.

(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Costco sign - 9/7/2007 8:14:22 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes
Personally, I have nothing to hide in my personal belongings.  I think it sucks that because of shoplifting and stealing, it has to come to that.  Maybe we should direct our anger at the lowlife's who are the cause for rules and policies like this?  They are the ones who cause the prices to go up to offset the cost of the losses.

Using that principle....since I have nothing illegal to hide in my car or home, maybe cops should be allowed to stop me by the side of the road and come through my door anytime they choose just to check.  Because of all the "low lifes" who do have drugs or illegal guns or shoplifted items or whatever in their cars and homes, I think that should mean we should all be subject to searches anywhere, anytime just so as to catch those who do. 

I mean no disrespect but that makes about as much sense to me.  My Dad used to always argue with me about this saying if I didn't have anything to hide, why should I mind being pulled over or searched.  I don't have anything illegal shoved up my ass either so I guess I should be ready to bend over for a cavity search at a moment's notice too, huh?  If me being protected from bullshit searches of my purse and person means that a shoplifter gets away with a tube of lipstick, so be it.  It's overpriced anyway and I'm not willing to give up my right to some shred of privacy just so they might get caught.  You know what Ben Franklin said about those willing to give up liberty..........luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 9/7/2007 8:15:25 PM >

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RE: Costco sign - 9/8/2007 1:21:38 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		It easy to have a Constitution that only protects the clearly innocent.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Costco sign - 9/8/2007 8:12:36 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I was thinking - does this have anything to do with stores like Costco and Wal-Mart installing the "self-check out" isles - where you just scan your own purchases over a scanner,(instead of a clerk doing it)  and then a machine tells you how much you owe, you pay with cash or a credit card, and bag your own stuff, and get your own receipt (after it's printed out)?

Whenever I've been in Wal-mart, the check-out line is usually shorter in the "self-check out" isle, so I've used it often. And there is never any employee there (that I've ever seen), watching to see if people are scanning all of the items they are (supposedly) buying.

It would be really easy IMO, for people using "self-check out" to just steal stuff, put it in their bag, and walk off without paying for it. 

Maybe that has something to do with it?

Maybe not - but if it does, why can't they just hire a security guard, or hire another employee, to unobtrusively watch the transactions taking place in that isle, instead of making everyone feel like a criminal on their way out the door?

I know shop-lifting can happen in other areas of the store - but supposedly, all of these places have huge security camera systems in place watching for that anyway.

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/8/2007 8:17:31 PM >

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RE: Costco sign - 9/8/2007 10:28:15 PM   
BigDaddyElPaso


Posts: 20
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline 		I for one am sick of the BS taking place in this country. It's turning into a police state more every day!!!

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Costco sign - 9/8/2007 10:58:59 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
I was thinking - does this have anything to do with stores like Costco and Wal-Mart installing the "self-check out" isles - where you just scan your own purchases over a scanner,(instead of a clerk doing it)  and then a machine tells you how much you owe, you pay with cash or a credit card, and bag your own stuff, and get your own receipt (after it's printed out)?


No, actually I think these things are unrelated. I think the self-check out has some security in place that might prevent shoplifting in any case. I think I once used such a system at Lowe's and it seemed to know whether what I scanned was in the bag or not - which I found interesting.

Basically, you are being tracked by RFID tags.

And that's going to be a problem soon too. Criminals with scanners might be able to pass your home and scan it for items held within. So RFID might be great for a store that wants tighter security and easier inventory tools, but that same technology might just suck big time for the consumer.

But hey, who cares? What they steal you just have to go buy again.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Costco sign - 9/8/2007 11:11:53 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well I agree I don't like being like a potential criminal at Wal-Mart (we don't have a Costco where I live, that I am aware of - but Wal-Mart basically treats its customers the same way here).

I am also generally dis-enchanhted that whenever go into a place like Lowe's or Wal-Mart, I have to know exactly what I am looking for, plus the aisle it is located in, or I am basically screwed, because there never seem to be enough employees around to ask any questions of re: Where possibly obscure items I am maybe interested in buying are located inside the store, or even if they carry them.

I'd be all for the "greeters" at the front door of Wal-Mart, if I could ever seem to find people inside the store who were able to help me find things. I could ask at the Customer Service desk, but it's always at the front of the store, usually about a mile away from where  am actually shopping inside the store.

But I guess that's life in 2007 (sigh). I am getting tired of it, too. This Holiday season, I am resigning myself to Internet shopping, despite the possibly horrendous shipping charges I will incur.

-Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/8/2007 11:16:40 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 6:49:32 AM   
winterlight


Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline 		Copco here oops Costco looks at the receipt. I joined recently after a long, long time. I am not crazy about it.
Yes, the gas costs less. I had to join another credit card company because they didn't take my other ones. That really drove me nuts.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 7:51:09 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDaddyElPaso

I for one am sick of the BS taking place in this country. It's turning into a police state more every day!!!


not necessarily just to you....but i have to say......if you dont like it here, its easy to leave.....

perhaps i am just proof that ignorance is bliss, but i cant see how having a receipt checked can piss folks off this much....of course, im herbally therapized....

smoke more herb-then you will love this country like i do!!!  thats the ticket......

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 8:03:59 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		I'll let them inspect My receipt, the bags with My purchased goods in them, but I'll draw the line there.  Any search of My person will need to legally occur by a police officer with probable cause.  Not some idiot making minimum wage.  Unless they are really cute... then I'll insist on it.




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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 8:05:59 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

I'll let them inspect My receipt, the bags with My purchased goods in them, but I'll draw the line there. Any search of My person will need to legally occur by a police officer with probable cause. Not some idiot making minimum wage. Unless they are really cute... then I'll insist on it.


Some people consider "My Person" to include ALL of their property. Not just a certain subset.

Without Probable Cause, you ain't doing shit without paying the price. Criminal charges, or in civil action, depending on the level of damages.



_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 8:09:55 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Some people consider "My Person" to include ALL of their property. Not just a certain subset.

Without Probable Cause, you ain't doing shit without paying the price. Criminal charges, or in civil action, depending on the level of damages.


If I happen to have a fanny pack or a backpack (two things I never have with me, let alone in a store) would be off-limits except for a "plain view" search.. ie. I would open it and let them look.  If they touch, that's assault and battery and I'll whine about it until the store gave Me free stuff, but I'm a dickhead that way.  :-)

My clothing, and any "cavities" within My person are off limits.. unless I'm bought dinner and a movie first.


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 8:19:27 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Maybe not - but if it does, why can't they just hire a security guard, or hire another employee, to unobtrusively watch the transactions taking place in that isle, instead of making everyone feel like a criminal on their way out the door?



Kinda defeats the purpose of self check-out, which is to get rid of having to pay a checkout person.

If they lowered the price if I used self check-out, I would use it, but I am not going to do their work to make their shareholders rich while somebody who needs a job is on the dole.

Sinergy

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(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 8:23:22 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		When I use the self-checkout line, I do it because it's faster.

Yeah, I'm as irritated by corporate power as anyone else, but sometimes I'd rather not waste my day waiting for a cashier.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 8:24:28 AM   
Rampoet


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline 		In response to GhitaAmati:

Your specious distinction between ordinances and statutes reveals why there will always be work for attorneys.  G-d save us from thinking like yours.  As an attorney of long-standing, let me assure you that your signature on a traffic ticket is merely an acknowledgement that you have received a copy of it and that you are the person whose driver's license was presented to the officer.  It has nothing to do with waiving any rights or admitting guilt.  Signing a traffic ticket means virtually nothing.  And adding the words "under druress" likewise means nothing; if you think it does, go talk to all the people who have tried to avoid paying income taxes on that basis.  Please do not spread any more of your ignorance among the people on this site.  And by the way, the UCC, which is the Uniform Commercial Code, has nothing to do with traffic tickets.  Get a life!

< Message edited by Rampoet -- 9/9/2007 8:38:52 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 8:30:57 AM   
MstrDennynSlave


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

They put signs up like that so that when they observe someone on the eye-in-the-sky surveillance camera packing their oversized handbag full of steaks, make-up, and pantyhose, they CAN stop them and search them without hearing all that "you've violating my rights" crap.....and that IS crap when it's used to justify doing something illegal.

Personally, I have nothing to hide in my personal belongings.  I think it sucks that because of shoplifting and stealing, it has to come to that.  Maybe we should direct our anger at the lowlife's who are the cause for rules and policies like this?  They are the ones who cause the prices to go up to offset the cost of the losses.



my sentiments exactly

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 8:31:12 AM   
Rampoet


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline 		Instynctive:

No one needs "probable cause" any longer for the kind of search Costco and others are doing or for any kind of warrantless search that police officers do.  Read the law!  All that is required any longer is "reasonable suspicion" which is a far lower standard than "probable cause" and which has been upheld by SCOTUS.  Additionally, the "plain view" doctrine, the "exigent circumstances" doctrine, the "administrative stop" doctrine, and the acceptance of profiling of all sorts, has virtually wiped out the original protections of the Fourth Amendment.  And now, with the Court's latest attacks on Roe v Wade and Griswold v Connecticut, you will soon see the elimination of :"the right to privacy" doctrine as well.  Keep voting Republican, folks.  Soon we will have no rights at all, unless you are incredibly rich.  The Founders must be turning in their graves.




(in reply to instynctive)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 9:49:19 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

No, actually I think these things are unrelated. I think the self-check out has some security in place that might prevent shoplifting in any case. I think I once used such a system at Lowe's and it seemed to know whether what I scanned was in the bag or not - which I found interesting.

Basically, you are being tracked by RFID tags.



RFID isn't that widespread yet. There's a scale under the platform. If the weight of the bag increases by roughly the correct amount for what you've scanned, it registers it. This is why i never use self-checkout at a grocery store- the damned things never recognize my loaf of bread.

The receipt checkers are there because, at least at the Costcos i've been to, the whole checkout area is mass chaos. Loading up a few things in your cart, walking around the lines and right out the door would have a pretty fair success rate if they didn't do it. Reducing "shrinkage" is one of the tools they use to stay competitive on low margins.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 10:45:26 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave
RFID isn't that widespread yet. There's a scale under the platform.


My second theory, actually! I figured that it couldn't be too accurate that way and created all kinds of extra of work in terms of weighing each item the first time and then again every time there is new packaging.

But I think RFID is more widespread than you may think.

(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Costco sign - 9/9/2007 12:35:49 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		"Kinda defeats the purpose of self check-out, which is to get rid of having to pay a checkout person. " 

Nope it doesn't.  There is one person watching 6-8 of the machines at a time.  There is always someone there to deal with the inevitable screw ups with the machines, damaged UPC Codes, old/confused people, ect.

It allows one employee to operate 6-8 registers at a time, it is far more efficient.  If I have less than 5 items I always use the self check, it's faster

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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