RE: white lies

RE: white lies (Full Version)

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ownedgirlie -> RE: white lies (9/10/2007 10:46:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth For example, I HATE Brussels sprouts. Lets say when we first met and she cooked for me the first time is she cooked made Brussels sprouts as a side dish and it took her 2 hours to prepare and I smiled and ate them because I "appreciated her effort". she mentally records my reaction for later reference. Four years go by and I come home from work greeted with a naked kneeling beth holding out a 'Brussels Sprout Casserole Surprise". I forgot my "innocent" white lie and, since its been a bad day at the office, I say something to the effect of "That's disgusting! What the hell were you thinking? Get dressed we're going out to eat! And while you're at it change you nail polish." All of a sudden any other 'mental record' she trusted to be true and accurate can and should be viewed with doubt. I don't want to risk that possibility. My, and our, position stems from that perspective. Again - it is only mine and ours. Eating the brussel sprouts while putting on your best face would be a lie. Responding as in chellekitty's example below would be a gentle way of appreciating the effort she put in toward pleasing you while still letting her know you don't like brussel sprouts and won't be eating them. In my Master's case though, he wouldn't even try them. I'm not sure I see what's wrong with that picture, but it's likely we just differ in opinions here. quote: I don't want beth to have to figure out when I'm telling her the truth and when I'm lying. I sure don't want to have to consider any other possibility when she talks to me or answers my questions. I like the reliability of knowing whatever we are feeling, thinking, considering, worrying about, can be said to the other without fear. I agree with you about speaking without fear. I would hate to be fearful in my own relationship as well, and I am grateful that for once in my life, I'm in a relationship which is not fear based. Only once did I ever feel afraid of him. I told my Master at that time, "I'm afraid of you right now" and boy did he slam the breaks on what he was doing and fix things. quote: We have both made best efforts that failed to live up to our expectations when we initiated that effort. No harm no foul in that attempt and usually it ends up with us both laughing about the result. The range extends from 'fallen' birthday cake to attempts at intricate shibari. At no time was 'best effort' doubted. All the time 'best effort' is recognized. NEVER does 'best effort' rationalize a lie - with us. OK. But I'm not sure where I said that acknowledging someone's effort to get it right was a lie. If you can point out where I did...please do so.

BoiJen -> RE: white lies (9/10/2007 1:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen We're all liars. Period. Not one person on any thread here can honestly say they have NEVER lied. And I can promise if you tried to ask someone anywhere at any given time you won't be able to find someone who hasn't lied. So...are lies a bad thing? Instinctively we want to say "yes they're bad." However, is it abd to tell a UM that Santa is real? Is it bad to tell a UM that Daddy and Mommy just didn't love eachother anymore over telling them that Mommy had an affair and is now pregnant and Daddy is pissed? I think when dealing with adult relationships lies are still a big thing that happens. A lie is a misleading mention of anything. That means when you omit part of the truth you have lied. We lie all the time. I'm a great liar. Seriously. I do it very easily and very well. I can think of at least 4 times this weekend alone where I told a lie to someone directly in person. I've never lied to my partner, on anything- except when he knew it was a lie and we were playing a fun game together. hat I believe...then again I think a game of "bullshit" is a fun game to play too. lol

VaWolf -> RE: white lies (9/10/2007 2:28:46 PM)
I personally frown upon lying. Even in the long run, I think that it may do more harm than good. However, if it is doing a world of good now, and that good is gratly needed, as in ownedgirl's great example above, then it is your call. Your sub is yours to mold, you should be able to judge what she needs and sometimes the truth can be destructive.

liorsnava -> RE: white lies (9/10/2007 7:00:16 PM)
question - is santa clause real? truth - pretty sure he's not, but i really don't know better - i'd like to think so, what do you think? i have used the latter on my son... i NEVER told him one way or the other.. it was always a question back to him. he always said he thought santa was real and that was good enough... now he is older and doesnt believe anymore.. but not once did Master or i ever tell him that yes, we thought santa was real.. there are ways to word things so they are NOT flat out lies or deciets, or deceptions.. or whatever word is chosen to justify the lie ~grin~ its not what is said, but how ....thanks chelle.. lol

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: white lies (9/10/2007 10:01:34 PM)
I never got the big santa claus deal. My mom always made sure that no matter who santa may or may not have been- SHE also got and wrapped presents, made sure I learned about creating and giving presents properly, and other family members giving me gifts and they needed to be thanked appropriately as well. So I don't remember ever getting the big news that "santa isn't real" because it was all more a general concept of "someone else generous enough to give me something" Santa doesn't bring me gifts? Oh well- I still have family and I still give them my gifts. I think it's parents who create this stupid sense of entitlement and who MAKE "santa" into a big deal who end up with the crushed kids who "learn the truth."

liorsnava -> RE: white lies (9/11/2007 6:27:18 AM)
our son was not one of those crushed kids... he never accused us of lying to him, or breaking his heart.the ONLY thing he ever worried about is... if santa is NOT real then do i lose my presents... LOL.. we too, always included gifts from us, and then there are my family members who give him more than "santa" ever did, lol. Master is jewish, so we include hanukkah in our holiday celebrations as well. i agree with you that it is the parents who make a big deal out of something that should be a "fantasy" idea.

ownedgirlie -> RE: white lies (9/11/2007 2:23:27 PM)
Cute how this discussion turned into a Santa one :) I loved what my sister & her husband did. They told their boys there really was a man named Nicholas who would give gifts to children, and now they honor St. Nick this way by giving the way he did. This is why they'll see people dressed as "Santas" in malls - they're celebrating the giving spirit of St. Nick I also wanted to add something I thought about, regarding earlier discussions in this thread, even though that horse is probably dead already. When my parents were teaching me to walk, they brought themselves to my level on the floor and exclaimed their encouragement as I waddled and tripped over to them - "That's it! You're doing it! You're walking! Yay you! We're so proud of you!!!" Etc. Now, I doubt you could call what I was doing actually walking, but they knew that was the best I could do at that time, and I was putting everything I had into it - determined, happy as can be, and excited when I finally reached my goal - their arms. They never really came out and said, "OK, we're glad you tried that, but you didn't quite achieve an actual WALK." They celebrated what I could achieve as an accomplishment, even though I had not reached what they knew and expected I would reach as I developed. That is exactly what I was talking about when I was referring to my Master teaching me to come out of my darkness.

CheekyHalfWit -> RE: white lies (9/11/2007 4:39:53 PM)
I have no problem with lying and being lied to. I do ask that the lie not leave me missing a body part.

SirEbonyPhoenix -> RE: white lies (9/11/2007 7:05:00 PM)
And that's a lesson we all need to learn, whether Dom or sub. For as one famous comedian once said, "We don't have to go around telling lies. The truth can be trouble enough." Said comedian being Bill Cosby.

heartcream -> RE: white lies (9/12/2007 12:05:02 AM)
for me i am honest as i can be with myself first and foremost. if someone says to me "do you like my shirt?" and i dont but i sense a tenderness in them needing to be uplifted i read that as the truth. so i might say, "oh i love that green color in there and it flatters your skin." when in fact i am hoping one day real soon we stop manufacturing those kinds of clothes altogether. i dont intentionally want to be cruel so i can polish my fingers against my chest for being "honest". for me that would not be honest. i know i am trustworthy. i know i come through with the truth when that is what is most important. i dont try to cheat or lie in a romantic love relationship, or a friendship. i try to be honest but i dont jump down my own throat if i fudge something for whatever reason as long as i am okay with it. if i was taken to task, "it is very important to me you tell me the truth about..." i am not going to mess around and lie. i might say "i cannot answer that now." or something like that. i go by my feelings as to what exactly i am being honest about and to whom. i will play around with the truth at times for my own creativity. eg: i am a painter and for a while there i connected with a mindset, a persona of a man. i made this man up, and in a way it was a lie. but i was cool with it, i dint do it to hurt anyone, i did it to stretch myself. to break out of an internal box. then there is that lying to myself i have done and prolly still do where i didnt realize that i was in denial about some aspect of me and my behavior let's say. but when i can see it, i do attempt to be as responsible and honest wif myself and whomever, as i can.

SirCache -> RE: white lies (9/12/2007 10:05:03 AM)
As other people have indicated, simply giving a lie a nice neutral color does not take away from the fact that it is dishonest. While the truth can in fact hurt sometimes--hence the need for people to feel a lie spares their feelings--it opens the door to too much. At what point is a lie unacceptable when you tell them? I can't justify it, personally.

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