Is the human species getting smarter? (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 6:53:51 PM)


Interesting findings about the cranial size of humans over the last 650 years ...

Time changes modern human's face:

By Rebecca Morelle
BBC News science reporter
Wednesday, 25 January 2006

Researchers have found that the shape of the human skull has changed significantly over the past 650 years.

...

They looked at 30 skulls dating from the mid-14th Century. They had come from the unlucky victims of the plague. The skulls had been excavated from plague pits in the 1980s in London.

Another 54 skulls examined by the team were recovered from the wreck of the Mary Rose which sank off the south coast of England in 1545.

All the skulls were compared with 31 recent orthodontic records from the School of Dentistry in Birmingham.

The two principal differences discovered were that our ancestors had more prominent features, but their cranial vault - the distance measured from the eyes to the top of the skull - was smaller.

Dr Peter Rock, lead author of the study and director of orthodontistry at Birmingham University, told the BBC News website: "The astonishing finding is the increased cranial vault heights.

"The increase is very considerable. For example, the vault height of the plague skulls were 80mm, and the modern ones were 95mm - that's in the order of 20% bigger, which is really rather a lot."

He suggests that the increase in size may be due to an increase in mental capacity over the ages.

Are we really smarter today, then back, just 600 years ago?

Firm




domiguy -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 6:58:37 PM)

Aren't our bodies at least 20% larger than our ancestors from the 1500's?  It seems and incredibly silly article....Or as our bodies get larger, are our heads/brains supposed to remain the same size?




Aileen68 -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 6:59:20 PM)

Not according to the average IQ of collarme members.




BigDaddyElPaso -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 7:05:24 PM)

I think people are reverting back to being basic animals. [>:]




michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 7:05:59 PM)

if you judge from the commercials on TV...I would have to say that Humanity is getting dumber...LOL




FirmhandKY -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 7:11:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

Not according to the average IQ of collarme members.


[sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif]




TreasureKY -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 7:13:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

if you judge from the commercials on TV...I would have to say that Humanity is getting dumber...LOL


Considering our ancestors didn't have the knowledge or capability to even have television six hundred years ago...  [;)]




FirmhandKY -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 7:25:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Aren't our bodies at least 20% larger than our ancestors from the 1500's?  It seems and incredibly silly article....Or as our bodies get larger, are our heads/brains supposed to remain the same size?


It wasn't just the overall size of the head and skulls that increased.  The vault height differences were statistically different.  I would assume that it was controlled for overall size due to improved diet of modern humans.

Recent Changes in the Human Cranium: Reprise

Results indicated that there were some statistically significant differences between the modern goup and the earlier samples - particularly in the area of cranial vault height and maxillary area. In particular, vault height measurements have increased and the maxillary measurements have decreased.
Firm




CuriousLord -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 7:27:08 PM)

If cranial capacity correlated with intelligence, you guys would all be idiots compared to me.  Oh, wait.

Well, okay then.  It would also men that men would be smarter than women.  ..oh, yeah.

Okay, it would also imply that my penis head would be readily capable of some of the most brilliant acts, be they sexual or otherwise, ever.  Ah, damn.

Ah, okay.  It's true.




Petronius -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 7:45:54 PM)


Nutrition is also a factor that corelates to adult size.

In theory, one would expect us to become smarter because of the Darwinian notion that the stupid people have a greater tendency to get killed before they breed. But a higher intelligence may not lead to increased survival for an number of reasons. (e.g. Smart and stupid man get hit with testosterone at puberty. Both are driven to connect with women. Smart man says it is better to marry later after grad school. Stupid man breeds immediately. Smart man, upon finishing graduate school has lower levels of testosterone and is not driven to breed as he once was. Or, smart women use birth control and have few children while really stupid women don't use birth control and have lots of kids.)




FangsNfeet -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 8:14:18 PM)

I can't say smarter but I will agree that humans are still on the evolution tract of adaptation and being better than past generations. Intelligence has been a hard thing for humans in evolution. After all, most of our all time greatest thinkers, philosohers, scholars, and people of genius, have done the least breeding.

As for breeding itself, how many of us choose to have sex with someone because of there brains over there looks?

In the quest of brains versus looks, I hope we can continue a medium of balance with a gradual scale of both going up.

Being to much of a nerd can take you out of the gene pool. Being to dumb will hopefully have you taken out of the pool before you ever mate.

It's like Carlos Mancia explains: If you're a C or D student, then date an A student so the kids can atleast make B's. If you're a D student with another D student, you're going to get Dee de Dee's.  




ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 8:24:25 PM)

As I recall from anatomy and primate anatomy classes I didn't particulary excell in grade-wise,

Increased crainial capacity (ensephalization) can be used in comparitive analysis between two species only because this suggests the amount of energy resources spent on brain capacity, not the brain capacity itself. ensephalization analysis is a function of body mass divided by cubic centimeters of cranium capacity-a huge animal is only smarter than a small animal if the PROPORTION of area/mass divoted to cranium space is greater. A horse, for example, has more cranium capacity than a dog but is not more intellegant.

The cranial variations between members of the same species do not suggest intellegence differences. Often, there is a differance in the amount of brain-fluid between the brain and the skull.
Mentally handicapped people dont have smaller brains than healthy.
Women's and midget's brains are often smaller than males, but there is statistically a negliable differance in IQ as compaired with males.
Same goes for small dogs, which arn't any stupider than big dogs.

This article would assume that english suffer'ers of the plauge, and a downed ship, were representative of the entire human race-or that within the last 600 or so years all humans had cross-bred enough to evolve in the same way.

Usually, some article will be published saying SOMETHING any time an amount of money is invested in a reasearch project, regaurdless of whether the reasearch was fruitful or not. Many anthropologist's are, in the opionion of many other people, of a mind to say a great many undersupported claims and it seems like this researcher was one of them.

Domi-guy is right. The article makes no account for size differeances attributed to nutrition, and that is probably where the differance lies.




ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 8:30:21 PM)

Petronius

Every seen Idiocracy with Luke Wilson? The industrailized smart people dont breed phenominon your talking about was the basis for a hilarious flick.


oh yeah, I forgot.

Intellegence is measured by creases on the surface of a brain depth and amount, not cranium capacity.  Cranium capicity is only used comparitively because brain-tissue samples are rare after decompisition.




willowspirit -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 9:04:02 PM)

Measuring cranial capacity for intelligence? reminds me of Hilter.
My Ex had a very high forehead. (or was it just a receding hairline?) He could barely grasp anything very deep. And I'm a "low brow" but  I have a GPA of 3.7 and an IQ of  around 150.

-- "willowspirit"
--- who is wondering if the "politically correct" form of social programs today is interferring with the natural process of the "culling of the herd"???
Oh! sorry, I need to take into account the corrective balancing aspects of the non-SSC sadists and the extremely trusting submissives like me... (Gee, I've been lucky. Smart, but too trusting...)
Maybe small cranial cavities don't have enough room for skeptiscism.
Oh, shoot! Never mind.




popeye1250 -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 9:15:10 PM)

Ever tried to watch that CSI Miami?
Or "Entourage?"
Dumber.




Termyn8or -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 9:23:10 PM)

Pet, you are dangerous.

Eventually you will have to be dealt with.

Don't you see how we have evolved, even our bombs are smart, even our TV sets are smarter than some. We have achieved to the nth degree. The skills needed to survive are no longer needed. This is handled by someone else. This gives us the greatest freedom.

We have the freedom to choose among the government approved insurance companies, we have the freedom to use a bank card instead of holding on to our own cash as an adult normally would. We have the freedom to vote for tweedle-dee or tweedle-dum. We have the freedom to use nutrisweet, and we will be given the freedom to go out in public again once we get those Depends. We have the right to drive on roads that are deplorable despite our freedom to pay top buck to get them fixed right. We have the freedom to give the money sucking government half of our money and then beg and plead fvor some of it back, years later when it is worth less than it was when they took it from us.

We are doing well in science as well, there was a ship used in WW2 that couldn't be repaired because "the technology doesn't exist anymore". We have nuclear tests all over the world, which the US government is too fucking stuopid to realize that they are causing, and at the same time farmers are shut dcown because an environmentally protected species of bird took a shit on their property.

Let's go into property for as minute. I bet that any and all of you, as well as your friends have never owned anything. The title to your car is not a title, it is a certificate of title. The manufacturer's statement is destroyed and you are issued this certificate of title, which means the state owns your car, and you never will. You are granted use of the car because you paid the purchase price instead of them, you are a serf.

It has been said that it is alot better to be a slave than a serf. I am starting to agree with that.

We cannot survive for a week without electricity and gasoline, but our ancestors somehow did it. Otherwise we would not be here.

I know one person who had a real deed to land, he couldn't get a loan on it though, so that has changed. Suffice it to say, you own nothing. YOU are property, and property can't own propeerty.

Monkeys learn to use a leaf from a plant to lure insects out for them to eat, insects actually have interspecies arraingments to survive. In the absence of things like that, we must hunt. Bears find a way to get fish out of the river, wolves find those sheep that are a bit slow. Whales find plankton and sharks find anything they can.

How do we measure up ? Anyone who thinks survival is not the most important skill needs to be reeducated. If you don't survive, your degree in engineering is no good. You can't take it with you and you can't pass it on. If you don't survive your Mazerati is no good, you can't take it with you. Your house is worth nothing now, not only can't you take it with you, you have no need for it anymore.

A few here might be able to survive after some holocaust that wipes out all technology, but many wouldn't. What do you think your problems would be if you were born 200 years ago, or 2,000 for that matter. If they had not survived, we would not be here. It really is as simple as that. I don't need a www this or that dot com to prove it, it is a simple fact, if our progenitors had perished, we would never have been born.

The human race is not getting smarter. With technology and the ease it bestows upon people, they get lazy. They cannot survive without the modern conveniences. I do not hold myself apart from that, it is true of me as well. It is simple, go camping, out in the REAL wilderness. Just how long do you want to stay there ? (that's even if you can survive). I can't even stand being out on my front porch at might because of the mosquitos. What I am seemingly accusing others of, I admit to about myself. I was born into technology, and actually my family seems to have a knack for it, but could we survive 'out there' ? I say no.

Think of yourself on a desert island, and then tell me all the good your calculus can do for you. (CL might want to take that one). If you are stuck with a bunch of aligators and shit outback, tell me how you can use the service manual for a Sony KP36XBR or a Harley there to survive. Tell me how your phone personality or your expertise in golf can help you survive.

You know the answer, but knowing the perspective of the question is harder. You and I belong dead without technology, we can't live without it. I shun it, but not completely, I am simply unable to do that. The power has gone out here, and so many people are in an uproar about it, but I can sit calmly in the dark, because nature made it dark.

People whio design nuclear bombs sometimes cannot dress themselves. Actually Einstein was known for having mismatched socks frequently. I have a high paying job that involves really heavy electronics, schematics and such, but I can't read or write. I mean if you write me a note in cursive writing I cannot read it, nor can I write it. And when I write anything it is not really formed very well. I consider this a cognitive disability.

People are not getting smarter, we are getting dumber. We were bad enough a couple decades ago when we could no longer get along without electricity, now people go into knipshits when their cellphone doen't work. I think advancements in technology have cost us big, something more important than all the bombs they can build. With the hubris of mankind is it not reasonable to assume that we can take what we want ? Moreover, this has gotten us into alot of trouble.

No, my friends, if the current trend continues we will be as dumb as dirt.

T




Marc2b -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/9/2007 10:05:14 PM)

quote:

In theory, one would expect us to become smarter because of the Darwinian notion that the stupid people have a greater tendency to get killed before they breed. {/quote]

But as we have gotten smarter we have devised ways to make life safer, thus allowing the stupid people to live longer, more reproductive lives and allowing the smart people to enjoy you know you’re a redneck if... jokes.




LadyEllen -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/10/2007 1:46:54 AM)

I'm smart, good looking and have bred successfully. I also have a big head.

My family for the preceding two generations have not been smart, or good looking, yet they too bred successfully. Not one of them, being of more humble socio economic strata, had a big head.

Therefore it would seem that a big head makes one smart, and the theory might hold something. Or it could be that being smart gives one a big head.

E





Rule -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/10/2007 2:37:50 AM)

Brain size has little to do with IQ. In small brains the distances between neurons on either side of the brain is smaller, so communication between those neurons should be quicker and therefore their IQ higher. We may therefore expect a gnat to have a higher IQ than a blue whale.
 
Brains consist for a large part out of fat. (The huge fatty membranes of the myelin sheaths wrapped many times around the axon of neurons serve as electrical insulation.) Our diet has gotten more energy (fat) rich during the past centuries. So it is a reasonable supposition that cranial height has increased not as a result of having more neurons, but as a result of carrying around more fat in our brains.
 
Tremendous increases in cranial height within centuries cannot possibly the result of evolutionary selection. Natural selection usually takes at least tens and often hundreds of thousands of years to effect such changes.  So the phenomenon - if it occurred - must have been driven by diet and presumably does not reflect a change in IQ.




meatcleaver -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/10/2007 2:39:23 AM)

Maybe it is all down to nutrition. Your average Londoner in the 14th century and your average Tudor sailor didn't exactly have a great diet.




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