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rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 7:59:44 AM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		I am really upset with myself because I recently realized something about myself. I can't get any enjoyment out of playing a game with no rules. I am not even sure if I could actually play a game with no rules. To take this a step further I feel I need structure in order to survive.

It just seems to me that dominants don't need rules or they can set their own rules and live by them happily. I always wonder how they do this.

If you are submissive: could you play a game with no rules and enjoy it?

Should I try to change this about myself or would that just be trying to make myself more dominant?
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 8:20:46 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
If you are submissive: could you play a game with no rules and enjoy it?

Yes.

But many subs and slaves are control freaks, they love rules, they need evaluations.

I'm a control freak, but I can enjoy a situation without rules and rituals.
quote:


Should I try to change this about myself or would that just be trying to make myself more dominant?

I would work on yourself being less needing of structure, just so you can be more adaptable in general. I don't think it has anything to do with being more dominant.

(in reply to kisshou)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 9:23:40 AM   
stormsfate


Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		I also need rules and structure. I'm working as an independent contractor right now and I found it very difficult to find my feet initially because for the first three months I had zero feedback. Nothing to indicate that I was either doing well or doing poorly. The guidelines are so loose and at times contradictory that it was driving me nuts until someone told me that unless you breach the contract or they have info to provide, I wouldn't hear from them.



f

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Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to kisshou)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 9:41:46 AM   
Davesgirl


Posts: 89
Joined: 5/13/2005
Status: offline 		Ohn my, yes! This is something Master and I have been talking about a lot lately. I have a huge need for the structure and rules in order to really feel secure and sure of myself. Seems that if I know exactly what is expected of me, I know where I stand, and can actually "perform" better in all aspects of our life.

Could I play a game with no rules? Maybe...I think. LOL!

(in reply to stormsfate)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 9:55:34 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If you are submissive: could you play a game with no rules and enjoy it?

Should I try to change this about myself or would that just be trying to make myself more dominant?


Hmm, I guess I'm stuck on the word game. I play no game with my dominant. I have a way of life I certainly take very seriously.

So, in trying to get past that word. Could I survive with no rules in my life. Well, I have when I didn't have a dominant. I wasn't as happy as I am now but we make adjustments for the situation we are in at the time.

I don't think self awareness is a bad thing at all. I know myself if any dominant didn't want me to imrprove upon myself I'd be looking elsewhere. Dominants should bring us up, not bring us down.
How would it make you more dominant in the long run? It doesn't mean you make these modifications for the time being, when you had a dominant you didn't go back to the way you were in the past, now does it?

(in reply to kisshou)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 10:46:50 AM   
pandoravampire


Posts: 374
Joined: 12/6/2004
Status: offline 		Im one of life's anally retentives. If there arent rules, i make up my own.

My Dom has few rules, when he feels the need to push his dominance, he does so, when i matters to him, not necessarily to me.

I would think that the love of structure you have, is a learnt way of viewing things, from nature and nurture. It is simply YOUR way of being centred, grounded or whatever. To try to change this would be futile. Perhaps if you were under 5 and your personality not set, yes, but now?

Stormsfate cited a incidence, where she was not given feedback on how successful she was being and finding this difficult. Yet i bet, she replaced the outside feedback with her own internals to tide her over, till someone came along to do it for her.

Surely, you have flexibility in your ruled life. If you plan to do laundry and its raining, your plans change. You are adaptable. You are not dependant on rules, but its your preference.

Playing games without rules? id be up for a bit of that. Like, ok, lets have the next two hours with NO LIMITS or something.

As for playing with my Dom, i love this aspect of our relationship, where we laugh, play, have fun, this is our way, I do not feel that it deters from our respect of each other, for us, it is a bonus. Life IS a game, D/s isnt though, i agree on that part.

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 10:53:43 AM   
stormsfate


Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

Stormsfate cited a incidence, where she was not given feedback on how successful she was being and finding this difficult. Yet i bet, she replaced the outside feedback with her own internals to tide her over, till someone came along to do it for her.


Well, actually I didn't. My internal feedback doesn't mean much to me when someone else is paying for the output. I just learned to not dwell upon the issue and simply do the job. If I breach contract, they will let me know. Its not my favorite way to work, and I definately do better when there are clearcut guidelines. I don't need supervision, but knowing exactly what is wanted and what standard equates to excellence is a huge help to me.

Then again, I was told when I was seventeen that I should be an artist or some type of unstructured work as I did not appear to cope well with structure. Go figure.



f



_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to pandoravampire)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 11:04:17 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stormsfate
Then again, I was told when I was seventeen that I should be an artist or some type of unstructured work as I did not appear to cope well with structure. Go figure.


Maybe you just didn't like THEIR structure :)

(in reply to stormsfate)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 11:07:04 AM   
stormsfate


Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		I dunno....I seem to be a contradiction in some ways and not necessarily in a good way.



f

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 2:56:36 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think it would make you more dominant but it would likely make you more flexible. IMO being flexible is a good thing - the branch that doesn't bend, breaks. Just because I enjoy structure and limits doesn't mean that I can't (a) set those for myself or (b) be quite functional and happy without them (and since I'm lazy that's usually the default ).

(in reply to kisshou)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 4:16:43 PM   
velvetvixen


Posts: 378
Joined: 1/19/2004
Status: offline 		If you are refering to "game" as a scene, yes I need to know rules.

My service is not a game but it wouldn't really be service if there were no rules. So yes I need to rules to serve.

EDITED BIT: It wouldn't be service for me if there were no rules.

< Message edited by velvetvixen -- 7/15/2005 4:17:53 PM >

(in reply to kisshou)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 5:22:47 PM   
softandshy


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		i prefer rules and structure, but can work without them if i know the people i'm working with well enough. It's very important to me to know likes, dislikes, wants and needs because given those i can create my own rules and structure in a given situation. They may not perfectly suite those around me, but enough so that everyone can be comfortable (and yes, so that i can read the cues if they aren't :) ). It's a bit like writing out a personal code of ethics (a very worthwhile exercise) to which you will adhere in a certain situation. It's a roundabout way of enabling yourself with rules and structure that will please the other people involved at the same time, and that don't require outside specification.

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(in reply to velvetvixen)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 5:25:58 PM   
luvdragonx


Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		i find myself in the same boat. Over the last few months, i've realized that i need structure - in some cases very specific instructions - to function in many areas of my life. For example, if my Dom wants me to be more open and share my feelings, i need specifics like when, where, what medium, etc. my mind is such that, left to it's own devices, i get distracted and off task. i may be ADD or something, At any rate, i like rules, particulary in D/s. If i know what's expected of me, how can i go wrong? i think we all want to test boundaries at some point or another, and if we don't know where those limits are, how can we learn?

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Never Without Love

(in reply to velvetvixen)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 8:00:40 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
It just seems to me that dominants don't need rules or they can set their own rules and live by


As one who adores rules...well, rules that I create (or at least negotiate) anyway...I find the structure of the kinds of BDSM relationships I enter comforting and safe.

I love rules, contracts, rituals and all sorts of other exacting and concrete manifestations of my control. I love the black and white evidence of consensual slavery...

But I am such a freak...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to kisshou)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 8:20:30 PM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		please? define "game". as in MY life....so it is MY game and MY rules.

"I" dictate what i say or do when where why who with why. but that is the fun of being vanilla.

what do you call game?

thanks
the wolf


< Message edited by lonewolf05 -- 7/15/2005 8:22:44 PM >

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


(in reply to kisshou)
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RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 8:28:52 PM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

please? define "game". as in MY life....so it is MY game and MY rules.


what do you call game?

thanks
the wolf



What is the game?

Ive had work situations where we had no rules only an objective and it was fun. Stressful but fun.

(in reply to lonewolf05)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 9:09:40 PM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		whatcha askin ME for? that was MY question to the thread starter.

what kind of game?

made no sense so i asked for clarification on it.

wolf

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/15/2005 9:12:15 PM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry but you asked a good question so I quoted you.

(in reply to lonewolf05)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/16/2005 12:03:57 AM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		"I" ---- asked a GOOD----question. jeeez.

thats a first. i am used to being told i ask the wrong stuff.

now i'm worried.

the wolf


_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


(in reply to imtempting)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: rules, structure, need, enjoyment - 7/16/2005 4:54:47 AM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		well, I was actually talking about the scrambled bdsm word game (different thread). That is what triggered this whole line of thought and made me realize that once the game had no rules I did not enjoy it anymore and could not enjoy participating. (made me nuts)

I also beg forgiveness I didn't mean to make TD&W feel like a freak, but, see, He is a dominant and He said "rules I create."

I had no rules growing up so I took my best friends parents rules and acted like they were mine also and lived by them. I am not decisive enough to make up my own rules.

I have always seen decisiveness as a dominant trait.

I really appreciating everyone taking time to post. Your comments have given me alot to think about.

(in reply to lonewolf05)
Profile   Post #: 20
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