RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD

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RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 12:19:26 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U
That 'secret' is what I meant, that brings two people closer.

Yes, I understand that. But ultimately, the "secret" either becomes a non issue or a burden. It cannot be relied upon to maintain a strong bond in a relationship.

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Post #: 21

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 12:21:30 PM

came4U

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From: London, Ontario
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WEll, yes, that is one aspect of it. The safeness of that itself that is a good start. I am sure there are other ways it (bdsm) may be a bonding experience of not so. Depends on the couple.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 22

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 3:00:44 PM

Celeste43

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From: NYS
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My standard response to someone like the op who claims that d/s is more intense than nilla is that it is only more intense for someone who is wired for it. If you're wired for equality then you would view a dominant partner as trying to control you abusively and a submissive partner as someone unable to carry their half of the burden of the relationship.

I've got an aunt and uncle married around 50 years now who have an extremely close relationship. Who does what has changed over the years with various life changes but the fact that they are incredibly committed to each other has never varied. And they have a non power relationship.

(in reply to came4U)

Post #: 23

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 4:15:39 PM

camille65

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From: Austin Texas
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When I begin to think of the OP it pretty much started with impressions left over from thread reading.

. so many struggle within their submission. advice and stories are told of how to overcome aversions to things like drinking urine, or how to deal with the pain of being lashed.
.how it seems like just one mistep and things kaboom, someone asks advice for one lie and it becomes 'XX isn't worthy of your submission, leave now or when you're on a St Andrews cross it will be too late.

Those are just 2 examples cuz I'm tired lol.

So that is why I think a lot more people than are willing to say, see their relationships as different from vanilla. Or else,
why would we be going through a sometimes torturous set of trials that is called dominance and submission?

As to myself yes, I do think that the relationship I have with my dom is much deeper than any I've had or will have without him. Again this is all just stuff wandering around my head so it isn't all pie-charted or graphed.

But.. it is deeper because it asks for deeper. I have to dig deeper within myself because with R I can't/won't/mustn't hide things.
With vanilla I have always hidden at least a few things & at most nearly everything. There is always some kind of barrier and that IS because I'm so submissively oriented. Yup I'm adding as I go.
The barrier that hides the facts of what I need, so I can be my best. I need that authority transfer because I manage best with it. I'm missing stuff when I don't have it. My inner balance is doing okay instead of kinda tipping to one edge because I haven't that prop [that being in something that fits gives to you. um or me. argh. you is me. yup].

Anyway that's really how I view both points. Do I think it is different? Yes. The second point I didn't come right out and ask because I was just curious about it.

One of these times I will use notepad.

I wonder how many times I will have to edit lol.

***Edited dang dang but at least the 'edit' button was still up!!
Aw crap, I did screw up. Up til the line 'As to myself' that is not supposed to have been first person. That bit is how I feel people are thinking. I need more space when I write so I can see it all at once lol.

< Message edited by camille65 -- 9/10/2007 4:47:57 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 4:27:11 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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There are only differences if you want there to be differences.
Is there a difference between a BDSM and a non BDSM relationship?
Only to the same extent that there are differences between a Gay relationship and a Hetrosexual one.
There differences due to the details, like I have red hair and Kyra doesn't. But a relationship is still a relationship, regardless of the structure.

When people feel they need to be a part of something special, they make it have differences from the norm.
Instead of concentrating on just having a stable and healthy relationship and being happy with themselves and content that others are comfortable with themselves.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 25

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 4:37:07 PM

camille65

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From: Austin Texas
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Hmmm and despite your opinion I have a stable and healthy relationship and happy with myself (for the most part, some plastic surgery might be cool

) and content that others are comfortable with themselves.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 26

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 4:41:37 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
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quote:

So that is why I think a lot more people than are willing to say, see their relationships as different from vanilla. Or else,
why would we be going through a sometimes torturous set of trials that is called dominance and submission?

Because relationships aren't fairytales? Why would anyone go through some of what people go through? Forgiving a partner when he cheated when he is sincerely sorry...standing by your woman and vowing to raise the accidental pregnancy even though you're 18 and had way different plans for life...supporting your partner when they get laid off and sink into an intolerable depression that makes you not even want to be around them...watching the woman you love lose her breasts, her hair, and her self esteem to cancer, and convincing her you still love her as much as the day you met her...all relationships that last for longer than a year or so have some serious trials and tribulations. And most of them make "ow I got caned" seem pretty trivial.

quote:

With vanilla I have always hidden at least a few things & at most nearly everything. There is always some kind of barrier and that IS because I'm so submissively oriented. Yup I'm adding as I go.
The barrier that hides the facts of what I need, so I can be my best.

That doesn't mean BDSM relationships are deeper than vanilla ones; it simply means that you are dishonest and less than forthcoming in a vanilla relationship. The situation could EASILY be turned around if a vanilla woman were with a kinky guy. For awhile she might dress up in corsets and whip him, sit on his face, dominate him...but she would also be hiding the part of herself that says "I really don't enjoy this as much as an equal partnership" just to try to make the relationship work.

Openness is openness and honesty is honesty. Both are essential for a healthy relationship. Whether the relationship is kinky or vanilla makes no difference.

quote:

I need that authority transfer because I manage best with it. I'm missing stuff when I don't have it. My inner balance is doing okay instead of kinda tipping to one edge because I haven't that prop [that being in something that fits gives to you. um or me. argh. you is me. yup].

And that's totally cool. You are very aware of what you need for a relationship to work.

I will say this much. A healthy relationship between two compatible people who love each other is FAR deeper than a dysfunctional relationship between two dishonest people. The reason you see BDSM relationships as deeper is because that is what you are compatible with, and that is the best situation for you to be in a healthy relationship. It doesn't mean BDSM is deeper than vanilla though....just that it's one of the parameters of a deep, healthy and fulfilling relationship for *you*.

< Message edited by xoxi -- 9/10/2007 4:58:57 PM >

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 27

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 4:50:05 PM

RCdc

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You can of course put words in other peoples mouths, or maybe you just didnt understand the viewpoint.
I did not say you were not in a stable relationship etc... I said that some people prefere to concentrate on making sense of the difference that they see and second guessing other peoples relationships as 'different', instead of just worrying and centring on their own. You feel that 'vanilla' relationships are different, thats your view. It isn't mine. We still get up in the morning, brush our teeth, work, rest, play. My relationship includes BDSM, just like LAs - but there isn't a moment I assume or think that our BDSM relationship with our partners are the same. That is exactly how the difference is as applies to non BDSM relationships.
I believe you are also confusing the position of your question by reverting to talking about Ds - which is completely different to BDSM and a part of it.

So what is it you are really speaking about - BDSM relationships or Ds ones?

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 28

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 4:50:26 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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Wow.
Thanks.

I just 'got' something pretty darn important. Yay.

And sorry, I think I was starting to get defensive.

*mutters...'hmm,wow. epiphany*

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Post #: 29

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 4:52:16 PM

camille65

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Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

You can of course put words in other peoples mouths, or maybe you just didnt understand the viewpoint.
I did not say you were not in a stable relationship etc... I said that some people prefere to concentrate on making sense of the difference that they see and second guessing other peoples relationships as 'different', instead of just worrying and centring on their own. You feel that 'vanilla' relationships are different, thats your view. It isn't mine. We still get up in the morning, brush our teeth, work, rest, play. My relationship includes BDSM, just like LAs - but there isn't a moment I assume or think that our BDSM relationship with our partners are the same. That is exactly how the difference is as applies to non BDSM relationships.
I believe you are also confusing the position of your question by reverting to talking about Ds - which is completely different to BDSM and a part of it.

So what is it you are really speaking about - BDSM relationships or Ds ones?

Peace
the.dark.

Yah. I'm on my laptop & was using the reply window instead of using notepad. So I think I confused tenses and concepts!! Jeez.
Sorry I got defensive for a moment.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

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Post #: 30

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 4:55:18 PM

RCdc

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No biggie.
I am interested whether you are speaking more about the dominance and submission in a relationship, rather than straight up BDSM.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 31

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 5:01:56 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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I am, I don't separate that in my head in regards to myself. BDSM D/s all sort of blend into what it is that we do, I do. I am.
So yes.. heh I wish I could re-do my entire post but hopefully most of it made it thru the translation.

And to me vanilla relationships are totally different. Always have been but.. I don't think I realised it. Sometimes self realisations are accompanied by confusion lol.

Okies so it is possible I am a total freak because for 'me' the difference is so great it is hard to imagine it not being that way for others.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 32

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 5:05:56 PM

MadRabbit

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Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Do you feel that a BDSM relationship is different from one that is not BDSM?

Yes, because there is BDSM involved.
Yes, because my M/S relationships have a different dynamic of how and what things are done.

But...outside of that, not really.

The notion that there is more love, trust, integrity, loyalty, yada, yada, in a BDSM relationship then a vanilla is a myth.

The substance of any relationship is the result of the efforts of the two people involved and not because a husband and wife woke up one day and went "Okay, now we are a BDSM relationship and not vanilla! Lets enjoy all the new love, trust, and loyalty between us!"

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(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 33

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 5:34:21 PM

Amadan

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Joined: 7/13/2007
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My perception of the matter, these days, is that all sex is a form of Power Exchange, and thus BDSM (or WIITWD) is simply a way of going into a sexual/romantic relationship with the lights on, so to speak.

Everyone travels through the same wilderness, we just get better maps.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 34

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 6:30:28 PM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
Do you feel that a BDSM relationship is different from one that is not BDSM?

Other than a difference in the type of sexual activities that we like to engage in, I do not see a difference.

To know that adding BDSM to a relationship will not make it deep and meaningful you just have to look at some of the relationships that people talk about on the boards. The threads that are out there "Master has no balls" or "Master Lying" or "Feeling Betrayed". Then you have the cheating or disappearing threads that seem to pop up weekly.

I have seen quite a few examples over the last few years of horrible relationships that involve BDSM, so I see no evidence that just because a relationship has BDSM that it will be deeper or more meaningful than a relationship without it.

For me, this relationship that I have is the best I have ever had. However, I think it has more to do with who we are together than the fact that BDSM is a part of our life.

Knight's Kyra

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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 35

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/10/2007 6:32:26 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Do you feel that a BDSM relationship is different from one that is not BDSM?

Which BDSM relationship and which vanilla relationship?

Not all vanilla relationships are built around love and not all BDSM relationships have mutual trust. It is not the BDSM that makes a relationship special but the people involved.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 36

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/12/2007 9:33:27 PM

MasterFireMaam

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Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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I do.

It's not the emotional health of the individuals or the mature relationship techniques used that makes us different. It's that we have a conscious transfer of authority inside a mutually defined structure.

Master Fire

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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 37

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/12/2007 10:30:15 PM

RRafe

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This may upset some people,but I'll say it anyhow.

If I really wanted to define an M/s relationship...........it would be from the standpoint of pure objectification. The "slave" would only matter from the standpoint of useage. Morals wouldn't matter much-not would trust or honesty. The owner would have the perogative to treat the property any way his of her whims dictated.

Most who claim to be into "M/s" do it from more of an egalitarian method. The slave has rights,the slave has perogatives, yadda yadda yadda...........the same as vanilla.

I think this is where so much of the confusion comes from.

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Post #: 38

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/12/2007 11:06:47 PM

slavegirljoy

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From: North Carolina, USA
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What you have stated doesn't upset this slave, RRafe. i agree with what you stated. For me, as my Master's property (which i voluntarily became), i gave Him the right to decide how to use me and what purpose i fulfill in His life. This is why it was of utmost importance that i sort through the various offers i received to be enslaved and chose to accept the offer that came from a Master who had a set of personal ethics and had interests, needs, and requirements, etc. that fit with my own and that i could willingly accept as the parameters that i would serve within.

my Master didn't club me over the head and force me to be His slave. i came willingly. But, once i accepted His slave collar and His offer to become His property, i handed over to Him all right to make decisions about how i would live from then on, within the terms that were agreed to by Uus before becoming Master and slave. my relationship with my Master is based on my sense of duty and loyalty and commitment to fulfilling my agreement to be His slave for the rest of my life or, until He removes His collar from me and releases me. In addition, my Master meets His responsibility to fulfill the agreement He made to be in charge of me and my life and treat me the way He said He would.

As to the question, "Do you feel that a BDSM relationship is different from one that is not BDSM?", i say that every relationship is different, whether it is a BDSM-type or not. For me, BDSM is simply a form of creative expression of my sexuality and there is much more to my relationships than how i express my sexuality. my relationshp with my Master isn't dependent on how i express my sexuality. Although that is a part of Oour realtionship, it isn't the foundation. The foundation for Oour relationship is the power structure and it is up to Him to decide, if, when, and how i express my sexuality. i know that other people consider BDSM to be something other than a form of sexual expression. But, this is how i see it and feel about it.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David
______________________________________________
"We all evolve at our own pace."

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

This may upset some people,but I'll say it anyhow.

If I really wanted to define an M/s relationship...........it would be from the standpoint of pure objectification. The "slave" would only matter from the standpoint of useage. Morals wouldn't matter much-not would trust or honesty. The owner would have the perogative to treat the property any way his of her whims dictated.

Most who claim to be into "M/s" do it from more of an egalitarian method. The slave has rights,the slave has perogatives, yadda yadda yadda...........the same as vanilla.

I think this is where so much of the confusion comes from.

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 39

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between N... - 9/13/2007 7:12:16 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
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I have always been the same me, in or out of bdsm. I don't change who I am simply because I am someones sub. My Behavior may change (slightly), but the core of who I am stays the same. I could do nilla because for me, it is normal to cater to my mate. As far as honesty about what I like sensually, who I am, ect.. I don't get why people hide that from the people with whom they are intimate.. From my point of view sex isn't casual and I cannot imagine having sex with someone I couldn't be open with about what turns me on.
Personal growth? How do you mean that?
I am particularly interested in what people mean when they state that. Hmm.. I should take this to another thread..
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
From me, I can easily say that yes there is a difference, that yes a D/s relationship is indeed different. It is deeper because more of me is required. More openness, honesty & personal growth. Those three items are almost always emphasized as neccessary or intregal to a BDSM balance.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 40

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