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New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/10/2007 9:39:25 PM

cyberdude611

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So how could the Pats be winning all these games over the past 5 years? Cheating maybe?? The NFL has opened an investigation after an incident this week at the New York Jets game. The Jets claim that the Patriots were videotaping the Jets defensive coaches giving signals to the defensive unit. According to NFL rules, this is illegal. And a person on the NFL Competititon Committee says this is not the first time the Patriots have been accused of these tactics.

Last year, on November 19th, the Packers had to remove a cameraman who was videotaping on their sidelines. The cameraman became very angry and although they let the incident slide, the Packers believe the cameraman was working for the Patriots.

"The rule is that no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game," the league said in a statement from spokesman Greg Aiello. "Clubs have specifically been reminded in the past that the videotaping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals on the sidelines is prohibited. "We are looking into whether the Patriots violated this rule."

If found guilty, the Patriots may be forced to forfeit future draft picks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3012989

Post #: 1

RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/10/2007 9:56:09 PM

Owner59

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Hey,you`re a Bush licking republican...What the hell do you care about cheating?lol... Illegal?...pffft!

Obviously, you don`t support the troops!<said sarcastically>

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/10/2007 10:00:58 PM >

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/10/2007 10:01:13 PM

Lordandmaster

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If it's true, I have to wonder how they ever thought they'd get away with it. Or how they've been getting away with it, for that matter.

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/10/2007 10:05:55 PM

cyberdude611

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Hey,you`re a Bush licking republican...What the hell do you care about cheating?lol... Illegal?...pffft!

Obviously, you don`t support the troops!<said sarcastically>

Just because Im conservative doesn't mean I support Bush.

That would be like me calling you a Hillary-lover.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 4

RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 2:18:44 AM

instynctive

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I like this comment by one of the article readers:

quote:

i heard the tape also showed the patriots receivers how to have more speed than the jets secondary and it also gave the patriots a way to stop the jets from being able to tackle someone....

Simply put, I can't see Belichick doing something like that... it's just not his style.. that, and the allegations from the Packers.. hrmm.. how bad was that blow-out? Yeah, I'd be a little disgruntled too for no longer being known as the "gritty little team".

Meh. Time will tell.

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 2:41:52 AM

Level

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quote:

The late Redskins coach George Allen presided over the glory years of NFL espionage. The Cowboys used to rent out the second floor of a local hotel because it stood next to their practice facility, and they were certain Allen's spies were occupying the rooms.

Cowboys safety Cliff Harris once told me players were convinced that every helicopter that flew overhead contained a Redskins spy. The tradition was passed down to paranoid coaches such as Bill Parcells, who once had a fan removed from training camp because he was wearing a Chiefs windbreaker.

Well, it seems Jets coach Eric Mangini hasn't fallen far from the Parcells tree. Despite the fact the Jets appear to have solid depth at safety, Mangini immediately brought in Artrell Hawkins for a workout when the Patriots released him earlier this week.

Could this have anything to do with the Jets-Patriots game in 10 days? Nah, I'm sure Mangini just remembered how much he enjoyed being around Hawkins.

Honestly, these moves never really seem to pay off, but it speaks to how coaches are always looking for an edge.

http://myespn.go.com/profile/hashmarks?tag=george%20allen

http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_1998/wallace_101998.asp

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 2:59:18 AM

Satyr6406

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Gee! Being an ardent J! E! T! S! JETS!!! JETS!!! JETS!!! fanatic for over 30 years, I don't know where to begin, here ...

Historically (in the last 7 years or so), the JETS have been able to find ways to keep things competative between these two teams.

The incident, last year, where Mr. Belichik "snubbed" Mr. Mangini by not shaking his hand, was a kind of "telling sign" to me that there is a very strong desire in both these men to "win at any cost".

I have little doubt that trying to steal signs exists in any sport. I think, therefore, that it's pretty silly for the NFL to have a rule against it.

Quarterbacks have helmets that are "wired for sound" so that they can receive unintercepted plays from the sidelines. Why can't the defensive "captains" have the same thing to try and avoid this kind of issue from popping up?

Now, going back to speaking as a JETS fan: While I don't think it's feasible for the NFL to have such rules, they do and if these rules were violated, I would like to see Mr. Belichik (and his team, who participated in this, even if unknowingly) punished.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 4:47:12 AM

KatyLied

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With modern technology isn't there an easier, less conspicuous way to gain this sort of information?

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 4:59:04 AM

Level

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Bribery?

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Post #: 9

RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 5:32:29 AM

maybemaybenot

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If this pans out to be true, I will be very disappointed, but not shocked. This will not be an isolated incident by a single team.
That doesn't make it right, but I will feel badly for the players who will be caught up in it, and most likely had nothing to do with it.
There is alot of bad blood between Belichick and Mangini dating back to when Mangini accepted the HC job for the Jets, and came back to the locker room, which he was banned from, and allegedly stole the playbook. The past few weeks it has been Mangini pulling in released Pats players and vice versa, presumably to get the dirt on the other team. Jets/Pats under Mangini and Belichick is a ugly rivalry.

As for the Green Bay incident, the spokesman for GB said, at the time, there was no proof of anything and at the time they just thought it was strange.

I see the ever classy LdT has chimed in on this one and has made himself judge and juror. I guess he can't wait until the facts are in before shooting his mouth off and condeming without facts.

mbmbn

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 6:59:36 AM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Hey,you`re a Bush licking republican...What the hell do you care about cheating?lol... Illegal?...pffft!

Obviously, you don`t support the troops!<said sarcastically>

Just because Im conservative doesn't mean I support Bush.

That would be like me calling you a Hillary-lover.

Calling me a "Hillary-lover", would be a compliment.

Please,....continue....

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President Obama

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Post #: 11

RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 3:03:32 PM

maybemaybenot

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It turns out... it is true. Very disappointing.

"NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, league sources have told ESPN's Chris Mortensen. "

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677

edited to add:

Just to be a total ass and soften the blow... I wonder if the " league leak" will be sancioned by Goodell for giving this info prematurely to Mortenson.

mbmbn

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 9/11/2007 3:05:48 PM >

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 3:14:40 PM

popeye1250

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Sounds like the Jets got clintoned by the Pats.
I winder if it's an isolated incident or has been going on for some time?
Nothing surprises me in "professional" sports anymore.

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 7:47:55 PM

Lordandmaster

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Yay does that mean they forfeit the game?

Probably not, but it never hurts to hope.

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

It turns out... it is true. Very disappointing.

"NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, league sources have told ESPN's Chris Mortensen. "

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 14

RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 8:06:37 PM

maybemaybenot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yay does that mean they forfeit the game?

Probably not, but it never hurts to hope.

quote:

It's possible LAM. Not sure how far Goodell will go on this one. Polian, Fisher and Casserly are on that board and they would be happy to have BB's head on a stake in a public square. So nothing will surprise me. I'm still kinda numb on the whole thing so I'm not sure what I think a fitting punishment is.

""The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. [...] In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate."

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/unfairacts

mbmbn

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 8:09:20 PM

Lordandmaster

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They're talking about "multiple draft picks," possibly over more than one year, which probably means something like a 2nd-rounder this year and a 4th-rounder next year. I don't think that's harsh enough. First of all, they have to forfeit the fucking game they were caught cheating in, and then they should lose a 1st-round draft pick both this year and next year.

It's against the rules, they know it's against the rules, and they've done it before.

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 8:23:12 PM

maybemaybenot

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Well, LAM. Imagine my outrage, disappointment and anger at BB and whomever else was involved in this. AS I just wrote in the NFL thread I cannot believe the arrogance and blatent disregard for the rules, despite warnings. I cannot believe this was worth forever tainting the teams accomplishments and integrity.

Whatever the punishment is, it is. Personally, I do not think the players should suffer on account of shady dealings by management. But I know others, yourself included, see it differently. I make no excuses for whomever is involved in this whole mess, and it is pretty shameful. At this moment we don't know who is responsible for this, we all have a very good idea, but how deep does it go ? I guess we will find out by Friday. Anyway you cut it, it stinks.

mbmbn

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 8:46:29 PM

thompsonx

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Just a fast reply:
How about a lifetime suspension for everyone involved in cheating. That includes the owners.
thompson

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 8:51:18 PM

Satyr6406

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Ahhhhhhhhhh! The JETS lost that battle but, may wind up winning the "war"!

I sincerely hope that the league WILL make an example of Mr. Belichik and ANY PLAYER THAT HAD KNOWLEDGE of what was going on. To me, if you know your "leader" is dis-obeying the rules, you're obligated to do the right thing. Maybe it was a player that "blew the whistle"?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/11/2007 8:55:45 PM

maybemaybenot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

Ahhhhhhhhhh! The JETS lost that battle but, may wind up winning the "war"!

I sincerely hope that the league WILL make an example of Mr. Belichik and ANY PLAYER THAT HAD KNOWLEDGE of what was going on. To me, if you know your "leader" is dis-obeying the rules, you're obligated to do the right thing. Maybe it was a player that "blew the whistle"?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Nope, it was Eric Mangini who blew the whistle. He pointed out the videographer to the league officials and told them to keep an eye on him. Mangini knew the videographer from his days with the Patriots. Makes you wonder, doesn't it ?

mbmbn

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When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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Post #: 20

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