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Fantasy or want? - 9/12/2007 6:34:56 PM   
blackpearl81


Posts: 506
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Home of the Yankees
Status: offline 		How do you discern the difference between a fantasy and a want? Lets say a sub fantasizes of doing something non-sexually intimate with his or her Dom/me, like, the sub wanting to create a relaxing environment by lighting some candles, drawing a hot bath and then bathing her.. (like a ritual I guess.) If the sub thrives on this type of intimacy/contact, would You find it tricky to keep the line drawn? (Ie excessiveness)

I realize that its all about Her, and, it is. But, would You consider that a fantasy of the sub? Or would You consider that a want? (the desire to pamper You)

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Sincerely,
V.

_____________________________

~ Karma. Being a motherfucker since 1981 ~

Ms. Pacman was the greatest prostitute that ever lived. For 25 cents, that bitch swallowed balls 'till she died.
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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/12/2007 7:30:12 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I'm a little confused by what you are asking. By excessiveness, do you mean that the sub might go overboard in pampering, creating an environment etc... If so, I can say that in my case, I like being pampered and spoiled, but I HATE being fussed over. If I felt the sub was attempting to fulfill his needs by constantly asking if I needed anything, if there was anything else he could do etc... then it would be very easy for me to draw the line. It's sort of like having a salesman following me around in a store.

In terms of your comparison to fantasy or want, that's what I don't quite understand. If you have a fantasy that you provide service, but it has to go exactly a certain way or it's not fulfilling or you lose your interest in participating, then I would say it's a want. If you just enjoy being of service and making your Domme happy I don't see it as a want. Well it is, but not a selfish want. It's the kind of want that makes the dynamic work.

Does that help?

(in reply to blackpearl81)
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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/12/2007 7:50:50 PM   
blackpearl81


Posts: 506
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Home of the Yankees
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I'm a little confused by what you are asking. By excessiveness, do you mean that the sub might go overboard in pampering, creating an environment etc... If so, I can say that in my case, I like being pampered and spoiled, but I HATE being fussed over. If I felt the sub was attempting to fulfill his needs by constantly asking if I needed anything, if there was anything else he could do etc... then it would be very easy for me to draw the line. It's sort of like having a salesman following me around in a store.

In terms of your comparison to fantasy or want, that's what I don't quite understand. If you have a fantasy that you provide service, but it has to go exactly a certain way or it's not fulfilling or you lose your interest in participating, then I would say it's a want. If you just enjoy being of service and making your Domme happy I don't see it as a want. Well it is, but not a selfish want. It's the kind of want that makes the dynamic work.

Does that help?


What do you mean by fussed? I wouldn't ask Her every 10 seconds if she needed something, but I would definitely find out if there was something She required.. (if thats what you meant)

I think I'd be happier in a dynamic where, She would allow me to make certain decisions - like...."how" to pamper Her - massages, sponge baths, breakfast in bed, etc etc. Letting me make that kind of decision, then ... i guess "grading" (for lack of a better term) me on it, without expecting it. Kinda like a "lets see what he comes up with" type scenario. THAT is where I feel I would excel the most when it comes to servitude.

I'm reasonably sure that some would find that too... troublesome, I guess? but others would be perfectly fine with it...One the flipside, I don't really know how common something like that is either.

With regards to your second paragraph, I would consider myself a fairly detailed person - Me, on a personal level, I would probably nitpick over minor details - If I was cooking, would it be cooked to Her satisfaction? If I was cleaning, would it be cleaned to Her satisfaction? etc etc. I get somewhat compulsive in that respect though - although, it HAS served me well in the workplace.

That, I think, is what would determine if it was fulfilling to me - If She truly enjoyed it, and the fact that I offered it to her. Since I did, I would want it to be very satisfying for her.

Thank you for your reply

Sincerely,
V.



_____________________________

~ Karma. Being a motherfucker since 1981 ~

Ms. Pacman was the greatest prostitute that ever lived. For 25 cents, that bitch swallowed balls 'till she died.

(in reply to TNstepsout)
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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/12/2007 7:59:11 PM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81

How do you discern the difference between a fantasy and a want? 

Lets say a sub fantasizes of doing something non-sexually intimate with his or her Dom/me.   If the sub thrives on this type of intimacy/contact, would You find it tricky to keep the line drawn? (Ie excessiveness)

I realize that its all about Her, and, it is. But, would You consider that a fantasy of the sub? Or would You consider that a want? (the desire to pamper You)

Want, fantasy - - both seem interchangable. 

If she happens to enjoy being pampered, I doubt she would care one way or the other whether it was a particular fantasy of yours or not.  However, if what she enjoys happens to be a particular fetish, fantasy or want of yours, than you have it made, male.  :)

How excessive are you talking about?  If you were unreasonably excessive or extreme in any way, safe to say most likely she would have figured that out way before your standing in her bathroom drawing her water.

(May be off on what exactly you're asking...)

< Message edited by MistressDolly -- 9/12/2007 8:00:02 PM >

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/12/2007 10:09:58 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81



I think I'd be happier in a dynamic where, She would allow me to make certain decisions - like...."how" to pamper Her - massages, sponge baths, breakfast in bed, etc etc. Letting me make that kind of decision, then ... i guess "grading" (for lack of a better term) me on it, without expecting it. Kinda like a "lets see what he comes up with" type scenario. THAT is where I feel I would excel the most when it comes to servitude.

I'm reasonably sure that some would find that too... troublesome, I guess? but others would be perfectly fine with it...One the flipside, I don't really know how common something like that is either.

With regards to your second paragraph, I would consider myself a fairly detailed person - Me, on a personal level, I would probably nitpick over minor details - If I was cooking, would it be cooked to Her satisfaction? If I was cleaning, would it be cleaned to Her satisfaction? etc etc. I get somewhat compulsive in that respect though - although, it HAS served me well in the workplace.

That, I think, is what would determine if it was fulfilling to me - If She truly enjoyed it, and the fact that I offered it to her. Since I did, I would want it to be very satisfying for her.

Thank you for your reply

Sincerely,
V.




I am going to agree here that I don't understand how you are differentiating between an fantasy and a want.  A want, if it is reasonable, is nothing more than a fantasy fulfilled.
But I think you make a very important point here.  I bolded the most important concept above.
One of the bits of information I ask for in My proifle is to describe how the potential slave would see a typical day playing out.  When I get the rare (*Smile) email that actually tries to follow My requests and share this, I am always fascinated.  Invariably it begins with rising very early to putter about and prepare My lovely breakfast, which is served to me in bed, followed by the drawing of the bubble bath, long ablutions with the shampoo, conditioner, blow drying and assisting Me in dressing.  Of course the boy also has to take care of any other household chores and somewhere in the midst of all this he also finds time to go to work, if he works.  Often in this scenario he doesn't work outside the home at all.  I am lolling around the house while he is hovering to be of service in any little way.  Doing My nails, giving Me a fresh pedicure, a sensuous massage, and cooking Me gourmet meals.
I hate to burst your bubble.
I don't care to arise at 5AM in order to squeeze all this in before I need to go to work.  I am the last person who wants to be gently wakened to the aroma of a fresh cup of coffee (I drink tea), and I can't eat first thing in the morning.  So if you don't want My stomach doing flip flops, best to leave Me be!  I also don't take luxurious bubble baths in the morning.  In fact, I am happy to get a relaxing "bath" time once a month.  A quick shower is more My style.  And I seldom shower before work, since I get hot and yucky, so I tend to shower when I get home in the late morning or early afternoon.  I don't have a specific time I need to be at work.  I would love to be more structured and get there by 8 or 8:30 the four days I work outside the home, but I seldom do. I am fortunate that I have that much flexibility and if I had a lousy night, or 6 phone calls in the morning, I might not get there until 9:30 or 10!   I only work 10 - 12 hours per week outside the home at My regular job. 
So, as much as I would love to tell you that I would allow My slave to make decisons and surprise Me, I am not good with surprises.  Maybe in the evening, if I  know something is planned and the actual event is a secret, I might be okay with it. 
You need to learn you Dominant's preferences, and then build your services around that.  If you have to serve breakfast in bed in order to be fulfilled, then best let them know that up front.  It is like the old Mother's
Day joke.  We know what w're going to get.  A bowl of cereal and burnt toast two hours before we want to wake up.  We might tolerate it because our little ones are so thrilled to do this for us, but when dealing with a grown up who is supposed to be making our lives more stress free, I expect more consideration.   
Thumbs up on the sesuous massage, but again, make sure it is not inconvenient.  Somertimes I am just not in the mood, or I just want to catch up on what I recorded on the Tivo.  In that case, I would probably appreciate a foot massage while watching TV, rather than scented candles, lovely music, and "lay down Ma"am...damnit...I am going  to give you a massage tonight!" 
Sponge baths?  The only way I am interested in a sponge bath, is if I am recovering from surgery and it is the only way I can get freshened up! 
As a FemDom, I prefer to guide and teach the slave to My preferences.  That means breakfast in bed when I want breakfast in bed.  Not when he wants to do that for Me. 
Does that help?

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/12/2007 11:45:33 PM   
DivaZya


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline 		hey blackpearl81, you are all over the place with your topic postings, way to go bud!

 So what I am seeing..  is you seem to be asking if initiative is something that a Mistress could appreciate.
  You might negotiate that right up front if you know you are interested in that.

I am  - it is possibly not absolutely spelled out in My profile, but you can bet your blueberry Muffins it is going to be- ASAP!

    you make suggestions and your Owner tempers them with her wishes, or gives you boundaries that you can both test.

Always the best Diva~Zya


_____________________________

~ D/s isn't based on fantasies- it may be motivated by them, but reality must be dealt with, and sometimes sharply! ~

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/13/2007 4:47:04 AM   
MsLilac


Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
Status: offline
Your post kind of confused me a little.

Does it matter if it is a fantasy or a want? In terms of where I think your core question is, then no, the excessiveness wouldn’t matter to me, because if that was manifesting itself to the point of annoying, I would stop it, therefore it wouldn’t be excessive anymore.

Let me elaborate. It so happens I like this kind of pampering immensely. If one of my subs/slaves had a fixation for this, then great! (Neither of them do, but they enjoy serving me that way). If the fixation got to the point of being a hindrance… I.E, running me baths several times a day with the expectation I will get in it for them - if I didn’t want to, then no, I wouldn‘t. If this kept being a problem, I would have words.

But if you are on about initiative, then that depends on the Lady. Some like a sub to use theirs often, I fall into this category. I have a thirst for trying new things and whilst I have loads of ideas myself, some of the best things I’ve tried have been introduced to me that way. But using initiative when appropriate is always expected from me - if in doubt, just ask.

Probably just best to define expectations first. If you like using your initiative, then find someone who will appreciate that.

I’m still slightly confused, but hope it helps somewhat.

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/13/2007 5:39:19 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81

What do you mean by fussed? I wouldn't ask Her every 10 seconds if she needed something, but I would definitely find out if there was something She required.. (if thats what you meant)

I think I'd be happier in a dynamic where, She would allow me to make certain decisions - like...."how" to pamper Her - massages, sponge baths, breakfast in bed, etc etc. Letting me make that kind of decision, then ... i guess "grading" (for lack of a better term) me on it, without expecting it. Kinda like a "lets see what he comes up with" type scenario. THAT is where I feel I would excel the most when it comes to servitude.

I'm reasonably sure that some would find that too... troublesome, I guess? but others would be perfectly fine with it...One the flipside, I don't really know how common something like that is either.

With regards to your second paragraph, I would consider myself a fairly detailed person - Me, on a personal level, I would probably nitpick over minor details - If I was cooking, would it be cooked to Her satisfaction? If I was cleaning, would it be cleaned to Her satisfaction? etc etc. I get somewhat compulsive in that respect though - although, it HAS served me well in the workplace.

That, I think, is what would determine if it was fulfilling to me - If She truly enjoyed it, and the fact that I offered it to her. Since I did, I would want it to be very satisfying for her.

Thank you for your reply

Sincerely,
V.




I think some of the other ladies have already clarified, but to respond... Fussing is constantly asking "are you ok?", "can I get you anything?" or constantly attempting to make everything perfect, "let me fluff your pillow, open the drapes, close the drapes, adjust the TV angle, get a footstool, find a blanket, etc....." all before we can sit down and watch the movie.  Really serving your Domme means knowing what makes her happy. In that regard details are everything. So if you are good with details, you should be fine. The thing is not to add details until you know her well. Then it will be most impressive.

Just remember not to attempt to recreate your fantasy with your Domme as a mere prop. It's all good for her to know of your service fantasy, perhaps she can incorporate it or elements of it into your routine, or perhaps it's something both of you can enjoy as a special weekend from time to time. You just must realize that we live in a real world and it's just not possible to live like that. In the end though, the reality is far more satisfying than the fantasy.

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/13/2007 8:20:28 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81

How do you discern the difference between a fantasy and a want? 

A fantasy has not yet come to fruition.  It is something a bit "darker" than a want.  It is yearned for to some respect.  A want is simply that.  "I want it, hand it over. damn it."

quote:


Lets say a sub fantasizes of doing something non-sexually intimate with his or her Dom/me, like, the sub wanting to create a relaxing environment by lighting some candles, drawing a hot bath and then bathing her.. (like a ritual I guess.) If the sub thrives on this type of intimacy/contact, would You find it tricky to keep the line drawn? (Ie excessiveness)


I have no trouble keeping any lines drawn anywhere as I say what I feel and want.  You can thrive on whatever you want but if I'm not interested at a given time then you'll wait til I am.

quote:

I realize that its all about Her, and, it is. But, would You consider that a fantasy of the sub? Or would You consider that a want? (the desire to pamper You)
 

A desire to pamper and care for your dominant in this scenario is a want.  If she's not allowing it, and you go without it and you dream of it...then it becomes fantasy.



_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/13/2007 8:21:50 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		What is the difference between fantasy and want or desire? I don't see them as different except the fantasy may have an entire scenario or story built around it that hides the different or single desire or need.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/13/2007 8:24:42 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81


What do you mean by fussed? I wouldn't ask Her every 10 seconds if she needed something, but I would definitely find out if there was something She required.. (if thats what you meant)

I think I'd be happier in a dynamic where, She would allow me to make certain decisions - like...."how" to pamper Her - massages, sponge baths, breakfast in bed, etc etc. Letting me make that kind of decision, then ... i guess "grading" (for lack of a better term) me on it, without expecting it. Kinda like a "lets see what he comes up with" type scenario. THAT is where I feel I would excel the most when it comes to servitude.


I actually like the you figure it out aspect then I'll let you know how you did...it shows initiative and thought.  Very much a pleaser for me.

quote:

I'm reasonably sure that some would find that too... troublesome, I guess? but others would be perfectly fine with it...One the flipside, I don't really know how common something like that is either.

With regards to your second paragraph, I would consider myself a fairly detailed person - Me, on a personal level, I would probably nitpick over minor details - If I was cooking, would it be cooked to Her satisfaction? If I was cleaning, would it be cleaned to Her satisfaction? etc etc. I get somewhat compulsive in that respect though - although, it HAS served me well in the workplace.


Detail oriented is a beautiful thing as long as you don't become mired in them.

quote:

That, I think, is what would determine if it was fulfilling to me - If She truly enjoyed it, and the fact that I offered it to her. Since I did, I would want it to be very satisfying for her. 


sounds like you get it to me. 



_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/13/2007 5:46:38 PM   
YesMistressIrish


Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline 		blackpearl,
 
You are one smart man! Posting and starting threads is a great way to get to know people, isn't it?
 
Onto your questions: I love surprises, but particular ones. If I mention that the kitchen sink drip is bothering me and then walk back in from the garden and it's fixed, Oh yeah! If I say that 'nothing is going to happen on that bed until all the clean clothes are organized and put away' as a passing comment, then walk into the bedroom 20 minutes later with a neighbor trailing behind me to find my sub doing that very thing, O-Yeah! These 2 things happened last weekend....  O-yeah! lol
 
Any domme you start getting to know will let you know what surprises she likes and when. Being a list person I would start a list noting what she says and seeing where the line is re: wants and fantasies; vs needs.
 
I think one thing not mentioned yet is needs. Some people need to pamper or be pampered, and some don't. She will have needs, so will you.
 
Any domme will want you to be trained Her way. I know a lot of dommes like to see a slave/sub for that first full inspection naked and at their door. I know my neighbors might like it, but am not sure I would.     I prefer to see a slave/sub wait for me to command them to remove specific items of clothing  s  l  o  w  l y 
and to music I have specially picked out just for them. I like to do this when and if I feel like it. I need to do that. It is my way just as you and your domme will find your way together.
 
Irish

You also asked if it would be tricky to keep the line drawn. If I am firm and he is perceptive and a good listener: No.
If he is really a 'do me, do me' sub, then it's all down the twahlet anyway.



< Message edited by YesMistressIrish -- 9/13/2007 5:51:08 PM >

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/13/2007 6:03:39 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		i would have cleaned the bed off inside a minute Ma`am.....Taking 20 minutes seems tardy. 

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/13/2007 6:19:54 PM   
YesMistressIrish


Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

i would have cleaned the bed off inside a minute Ma`am.....Taking 20 minutes seems tardy. 


lol! funny as usual politesub. The bed was filled with clothes freshly washed from my storage unit! *happy snicker*

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/13/2007 6:22:44 PM   
iammachine


Posts: 1549
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline 		I think the difference between a fantasy and a want, is to what extent is what you are fantasizing about feasible. Is that something that you are actually willing to do or make happen? Is that something that you *want* to happen, or is it really just too impractical to actually put into practice, but still nice to think about?

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/14/2007 2:21:45 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Could it be there are two types of fantasies ? Firstly the type that it is possible may happen, such as the one in the OP. Secondly the type that may never happen as it is too extreme to be viable, or something that wont ever fit into your relationship dynamics, such as pulling your Domme over your knee grabing Her paddle and screaming " Lets see how You like it "  < Shakes image from my head.... er the big one >
i once asked someone what She would do if i ever did that... sheesh if looks could kill. One glance told me dont even think about it.

In short i see a want as womething you wish to do, it may not even be sexual, just something to please your Domina. i see a fantasy as something deeply sexual which may or may not be possible to achieve, and if it is achieved it may not be all it was cracked up to be.

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/14/2007 10:03:06 AM   
ocilla


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Joined: 6/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Secondly the type that may never happen as it is too extreme to be viable, or something that wont ever fit into your relationship dynamics, such as pulling your Domme over your knee grabing Her paddle and screaming " Lets see how You like it "  < Shakes image from my head.... er the big one >
i once asked someone what She would do if i ever did that... sheesh if looks could kill. One glance told me dont even think about it. 
i see a fantasy as something deeply sexual which may or may not be possible to achieve, and if it is achieved it may not be all it was cracked up to be.


OMG that made me laugh. 

And I am in full agreement on your last statement.  I do suspect that most fantisies if lived out would be completely ruined.  Often real life can in no way live up to the richness and complete artistry of our imaginations.  I find the majority of fantasies that I hear about to be kind of frustrating and sad.  I am someone who has a practical streak the notion of desiring something that is a marage or never truely acheivable just frustrates the hell out of me - so I try hard NOT to go there.  I also find that those who do have a rich fantasy life are often unsatisfied with real life.  Once they get to live out that fantasy and find it does not measure up they have to up the ante, so to speak, and seem very unaware that they are not likely to ever get that itch scratched.  To me it can be a red flag when getting to know a person.  It is really important to me that the person I am involved with be capable of being saited.

_____________________________

Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder

It takes a kinky village...

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/14/2007 10:41:02 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ocilla


I do suspect that most fantisies if lived out would be completely ruined.  Often real life can in no way live up to the richness and complete artistry of our imaginations. 


Fantasies can also be something as simple as "I imagined that you would be there with a smile, waiting for me to come through security, and it was so frustrating when you weren't." 
There are those who imagine how everything should play out in their minds.  Even something as simple as what I just mentioned which truly happened, btw.   The boy was put off and it took him some time to get back on track, because he had been dreaming of the way he would be greeted, and it didn't work out in that way. 
I suppose that is why I took quick exception to the OP's statement of pampering he wants to pamper.  It is easy to imagine and feel good and have the dream, and then if it doesn'tt happen in that way, or at all, it can get frustrating. 
So, if you consistently imagine serving the breakfast in bed, and the Lady doesn't want it, or if you dream for a week about surprising Her with a massage, and it doesn't happen...well, ya see what I mean?

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/22/2007 6:41:00 PM   
flowspen


Posts: 133
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Memphis
Status: offline 		Wow this was good thread to read... i am not sure of the universal differences between fantsy, want or even desires..  I desire my wants as my wants desire my fantasies they are all connected to me in more than one way.  i know this.. i know me, i know what makes me tick, what makes me more or less obediant, i know myself very well and i know what type of Mistress i need so that my fantasies, wants and desires dont matter.  They only become an issue when i am involved with the wrong Mistress for me.  I would say, find out as much as you can about a person you are interested in, compare that to what you know that you need and want.  if it is a good match then you can be yourself and fullfill her while being fullfilled yourself.  Choose who you submit to very carefully.

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RE: Fantasy or want? - 9/22/2007 7:01:39 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81

How do you discern the difference between a fantasy and a want? Lets say a sub fantasizes of doing something non-sexually intimate with his or her Dom/me, like, the sub wanting to create a relaxing environment by lighting some candles, drawing a hot bath and then bathing her.. (like a ritual I guess.) If the sub thrives on this type of intimacy/contact, would You find it tricky to keep the line drawn? (Ie excessiveness)

I realize that its all about Her, and, it is. But, would You consider that a fantasy of the sub? Or would You consider that a want? (the desire to pamper You)

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Sincerely,
V.


I would consider it a deeply desirable trait and I'm not sure it would be possible to "fuss" too much. Is it a fantasy or a want for a female dominant to look for such traits in a male sub?
 
Jewel

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Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to blackpearl81)
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