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Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 7:55:08 AM

BoiJen

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Okay I brought it up on another thread and I thought I'd do the appropriate thing and just start a new thread dedicated to specifically this.

Why do people consistantly and continuously use the terms "Dominant/submissive/slave" while refering to play rather than power dynamic?

In a power dynamic one is in charge the other isn't so I get using the terms "Dominant/Dayyd/Mistress/Master/Ma'am" whatever (to simplify things I generally use the word "D-type")

In play one is a top or a bottom. The top is the one hitting someone and the bottomis the one being hit or tied up or whatever.

The biggest reason for the distinction in my word is because I'm a s-type who likes to top. And I get refered to as a Dominant ALL the time because of it. But damnit I'm NOT in charge. The other part I've seen on a regular basis actually is D-types who like to bottom. It doesn't make them less of a D-type in those moments it makes them a bottom. Often these are the people who agree to "top for the bottom" in giving directions for the scene.

So why don't people make the distinction since we're already so damned PC?

Post #: 1

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 7:58:02 AM

missturbation

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Because people are entitled to call it as they see it. They do not have to agree with or use your definitions. Use them for yourself and your situation by all means but don't tell me or others how we should define the dynamics.

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Post #: 2

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 7:59:01 AM

jaxnsax

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Greetings
I can only answer for myself. I often use the words Dominant/Master to indicate the one in charge; and submissive/slave to indicate the *s* type.
On the other side, for those who only engage in ‘short term’ play or scenes; I use Top/bottom
Often though, on the boards, I can not distinguish between those who only play and those who are engaged in an ongoing dynamic. So, to avoid issues, I leave out the use of Top/bottom
jaxon

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A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

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RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:01:24 AM

BoiJen

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I would assume when a topic is about play...rather than power dynamic that one would then use terms specific to play rather than generalizing with terms used for a power dynamic...then again there I go assuming.

(in reply to jaxnsax)

Post #: 4

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:02:04 AM

Stephann

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It's not nearly as exciting to me if a girl were to be moaning "Oh yeah, take your bottom! Yeah, make me your bottom! Yeah, that's it, mmmmmm!!!"

The gist, of course, is that the words "Master/Mistress/slave" are far sexier than "Top/bottom." It's the same reason I'd expect my slave to wear tight latex or a beautiful corset instead of mu mu with pink bunny slippers for play. It's about style, as much as it is about substance.

Stephan

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"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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Post #: 5

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:03:45 AM

jaxnsax

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Greetings BoiJen
You would be correct, but it would be an assumption on my part to think that just because a topic is about play that it automatically means that the ones involved are NOT involved in an ongoing dynamic.
J
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 6

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:04:09 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I would assume when a topic is about play...rather than power dynamic that one would then use terms specific to play rather than generalizing with terms used for a power dynamic...then again there I go assuming.

Terms specific for who though? Your specific terms may not be others. Even in play i am Sir's slave, not a bottom.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 7

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:04:54 AM

BoiJen

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that I get. Then again as I top I don't generally hear that much talking lol! Though there was a moment as a top I got called Her lil Daddy....and again it was still pretty clear even though She was using a term most people associate with being in charge...I wasn't. Just an experience I like to think on

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RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:07:44 AM

BoiJen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Terms specific for who though? Your specific terms may not be others. Even in play i am Sir's slave, not a bottom.

That would be my point missturbation. Just because for you when you play there's a power dynamic behind it too doesn't mean there is for everyone. And more often than not I see people use the PD terms rather than the play terms when speaking to other people.

I for one, I know everybody's not the same, would be much better with people generally assuming I'm Her bottom when we play and being cautious to assume a relationship beyond that than someone assuming just because I cutting someone that I'm in charge of the dynamic there.

I hope that makes sense?

(in reply to missturbation)

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RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:11:23 AM

Stephann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

that I get. Then again as I top I don't generally hear that much talking lol! Though there was a moment as a top I got called Her lil Daddy....and again it was still pretty clear even though She was using a term most people associate with being in charge...I wasn't. Just an experience I like to think on

Amazing the things that come out of a "bottom's" mouth when she's enjoying herself, eh?

Something I learned well in the Marines; it doesn't matter if you are actually in charge. What matters is that people believe you are in charge.

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 10

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:11:33 AM

missturbation

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Yes it makes complete sense, but unfortunately had you not stated that you would rather be referred to as a bottom, i would have referred to you as a switch, which it states on your profile.
Unless you know people well on these boards you can only really assume as to their status, top or dom, sub or bottom. I guess for most myself included sub and dom / domme are the most common used and therefore we automatically state them.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 11

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:12:54 AM

jaxnsax

Posts: 106
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Greetings BoiJen
I know your post was in answer to missturbation, but the question comes to mind.
When a topic is posted about a scene, or about play only, and the person has not specifically stated that this is their only relationship; how can one make a determination as to what they actually are?
I could post a topic about breath play, and never reveal that my relationships are an ongoing dynamic.
You can not make the determination that I am a bottom only simply by what was posted.
J

jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 12

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:13:37 AM

Stephann

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From: Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Yes it makes complete sense, but unfortunately had you not stated that you would rather be referred to as a bottom, i would have referred to you as a switch, which it states on your profile.
Unless you know people well on these boards you can only really assume as to their status, top or dom, sub or bottom. I guess for most myself included sub and dom / domme are the most common used and therefore we automatically state them.

I usually try to refer to people by their name, and as people when I can.

I won't refer to someone as a Dom/Top/Master/Daddy/S/switch/sub/slave/slut/pet/whore until they've demonstrated to me that they are, in some fashion.

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 9/14/2007 8:14:02 AM >

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 13

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:14:55 AM

BoiJen

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I guess that's part of the problem. The labels we're given on these sites aren't always adequate for who we are or what we do or want to do. However it's what we have to work with. I guess what I'm trying to point out is that the terms are not synonmous. And yet they're used that way based on assumptions...and yes we all make them...

maybe that should be my next thread...why do we get pissed about people making assumptions when it's really common practice?...blah

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 14

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:18:05 AM

BoiJen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax

Greetings BoiJen
I know your post was in answer to missturbation, but the question comes to mind.
When a topic is posted about a scene, or about play only, and the person has not specifically stated that this is their only relationship; how can one make a determination as to what they actually are?
I could post a topic about breath play, and never reveal that my relationships are an ongoing dynamic.
You can not make the determination that I am a bottom only simply by what was posted.
J

jaxon

I get that. And I think we're saying the same thing but looking at it from different views. I would think making the assumption based on play and sticking to those terms when that's the topic, one would not be offended. I mean you'd be using the terms appropriate to the topic at hand.

Now if one is talking about a PD and using play terms then they're just plain silly lol...no ...I have to be serious....

I would then on a PD topic use the terms specific or ask for specification.

Why not use the terms appropriate based upon the topic at hand?

(in reply to jaxnsax)

Post #: 15

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:18:24 AM

missturbation

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lol i posted one recently after my slave for hire thread and mentioning an accident that resulted in my being injured. Conclusions were jumped to, assumptions made so i started a thread called ........ erm ........ cant remember lol.
But yes i can see why assumptions of your status would be annoying to you.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 16

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:18:38 AM

Mercnbeth

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The question back to you is where, within the definition of "submissive" is the reference to "topping"? Submission under terms is dominance, not semantic but actual. It better be actual or all belief "submissives" have in 'safe-words' and 'limits' is misplaced. Its not the choice of a Dominant to stop, its the choice of the person with the absolute ability to stop. In a dynamic with 'safe-words' that power rests solely with the person able to use those magic words. It seems very pragmatic to me. Its not meant as any value judgment. It only speaks to the actual dynamic.

Whether you are in charge of a scene as a top, or on the receiving end as a bottom; 'dominance, as a function of 'control' rests with the person having the authority to dictate terms, conditions, and method of the interaction.

There are all kinds of great wonderful sensations to give and get that fall within the big umbrella of "lifestyle". The need for labeling them all and then distinguishing which side of the sensation is an impossible task. Maybe the best attempt are the 'hankie codes'. In general terms perhaps the best labeling description would be a "sensation-alist". Appreciating that the transition from giving to receiving sensation is fluid for some, not needing to change or vacillate between a submissive and dominant label. The personality identity, dominant/submissive, is irrelevant regarding the desired 'sensation'.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 17

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:19:18 AM

BoiJen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Something I learned well in the Marines; it doesn't matter if you are actually in charge. What matters is that people believe you are in charge.

amazing that thing about perception and reality huh?

PS your font is infectious

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 9/14/2007 8:20:58 AM >

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 18

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:21:11 AM

jaxnsax

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Greetings BoiJen
For myself, I don’t use the terms appropriate to the topic at hand because it would be presumptuous on my side to do so.
Calling someone ‘just a top’ often leads to threads that become quite nasty
J
I much prefer that discussions stay pleasant; it’s just the way I am
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 19

RE: Play Terms V. PD Terms - 9/14/2007 8:27:47 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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I think it's because for most it's a big ball o stuff that just gets mashed together- and then you add in all the peer pressure values of what's "cooler/better" and it just comes out that way.

Eventually people usually learn to be more direct and clear with their language and understand their experiences with more depth.

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