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RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/15/2007 7:43:57 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Can't speak for all, but as a non-pro femdom, I don't care enough to rally against the "quick buck/tribute/kneel now worm, send me $20 to see my pic" fly by night dominas because:

1) I don't "compete" with them - the men who would seek me out seek me out for qualities they don't have and vice versa
2) I know they are a result of supply and demand anyway
3) Any sub I would likely have an interest in is far too intelligent to fall for that kind of scam.

It's not worth the time/energy to get upset over. It just doesn't affect me personally.

Akasha

That's pretty much how I feel.

It's a profession whose only common points with me is femaleness and BDSM in some form.

I cook food for my family but I don't imagine that professional chefs get concerned if I make a bad meal or even great meals because we aren't competing for any greater audience than my family.

That said when I was doing the educational coordinator role for a university BDSM group we had to make a decision to no longer include pros as pros in our panels for human sexuality classes because their view point frankly didn't represent what the professors or students wanted to know about -- how this is just another form of love or sexuality. They also tended to talk negatively about their clients. So the only pros who came to panels were those who also did BDSM in their private lives and who understood they needed to share that.

Frankly I was appalled that some of those pros talked about their clients negatively and described them. Made me concerned about privacy issues. But this wasn't a problem limited to pros -- we also had some issue with a few male dom/fem sub couples who felt the need to discuss their offspring and they were also removed from the volunteer list for their own protection.

That was a tricky job for me and probably not one I'd do in the future. Very complicated to get volunteers, protect them, provide information for the classes, and keep everyone passingly happy.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/15/2007 10:34:39 AM

Shadowen

Posts: 34
Joined: 8/31/2007
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BeachMystress, Going to respond point by point here ( and I thought I tended to write alot ) and I think I need to clear a few things up here anyways simply because my writing as mentioned does tend to be all over the place and it loses intent somtimes in the jumble.

1. I guess I do hold them to a different standard but its probably not for the reason you think. Probably. I look at it the same way as I perceive other people who have been in the military. I guess for the most part I hold them to a higher standard because of the implied high standards of dominants themselves. Male and female.

3. (skipping a number cause I ahve to admit not being sure what you're going for in the second quote there.) Furthering education is a great thing, not what I was talking about. The ones I was referring to look to me like alot of those weird get rich moneymaking infomercials you see on tv. I wasn't reffering to attending classes and improving your skills. I'm all for that.

4. I'm well aware at what the term lifestyle means in that context and I know there are professionals that are lifestyle to which I will re-itterate again I have no problem with them whatsoever. It's the american dream to be getting paid for something that you love after all, and making pretty good money from what I've seen and heard. I don't personally see how you could do it, just from point of fact that I can't wrap my head around the whole if you're submissive why am I doing what you want sorta thing but thats just me.

5. This is actually what I was asking about and why I was curious. It's the unethical, dangerous ones I was referring to and with the newest Generation Me crop coming out theres more and more of them. What I consider unethical (and its probably justopening up a whole 'nother can of worms (they were on sale at walmat so I got them cheap)) is for the most part it just seems to be a scam for a large percentage and was curious as to why more women don't speak out about things like that when on the flip side of the coin men are somewhat overly quick to do the same to their 'peers'

6. Ok, you actually misunderstood what I said there. Flip it around and reverse it. Professional & Lifestyle also are the minority is what Iw as saying. Which is why its never to type in anything female dominant related into a Google thing unless you're looking for porn or unless you have a few hours to spend trying to find the information you're actually looking for.

7. ehhhh ok you got a point there. But then again you have to look at the fact that I'm a guy and it's an alpha pack leader instinct I think that for the most part nags at the backs of our brains to disregard male submissives entirely anyways. Probably a male ego thing. Add that on top of the fact that truthfully no the vast majority of males are 1000 times worse than the proverbial greediest gold digger could ever be. I do see what you're saying though and its a good point. Problem with that is though that you ladies seem to police that up pretty nicely yourselves while most of the dominant men are to busy patting themselves on the back or putting others in the fake category.

8. No no no, not getting into the tribute thing. Uh uh. No way. To many of you and theres only one of me. Truthfully I read all over the boards simply because I enjoy seeing other people viewpoints. Even on things I'm not personally interested in. If it catches my intellectual curiousity, despite any eww factor it may or may not have, I generally read up about it. That, and truth be told a good number of you ladies write insightful thought provoking posts regardless of the topic and I always enjoy reading stuff like that.

and to LadyPact and MissMagnolia
Those are reasons for alot of the curiousity and confusion on my part as well and why I asked the question. For the life of me I couldn't see the general benefit it would be even having the scams around would be to you and alot of that has to do with something Gloria Bramme had said quite a while back that I had come across. Which just leads me to a whole bunch more questions but I think I'll save that.

But like I said before, Social Darwinism is a good thing. If it wasn't they wouldn't have the Darwin Awards.

Thank you all very much, given me alot of insight and information and cleared alot of questions up in my head. Even some that popped up while I was reading. Got alot of stuff to file away in my head after I'm done fully digesting it and reformating parts of my brain to accept new elements and branches of thought. Hopefully my brain doesn't melt. It tends to do that when I have to excise or modify conceptions. It can't handle the strain.

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Post #: 22

RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/15/2007 12:56:35 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadowen

BeachMystress, Going to respond point by point here ( and I thought I tended to write alot ) and I think I need to clear a few things up here anyways simply because my writing as mentioned does tend to be all over the place and it loses intent somtimes in the jumble.

I'm guessing that it's because you are a Gemini with an Aquarian moon (or vice versa) :)

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RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/15/2007 2:07:58 PM

ocilla

Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/12/2007
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Yep, has nothing to do with me. I agree with just about everything the other Ladies have said. Aakasha, Beachy, Magnolia (in her pink slippers, one fuzzy, one shaved, LOL - damn that bear), and my neighbor Lady Pact. And I have not noticed scammer's posting on the boards and would think they would stand out like a sore thumb, so it is not something that would ever come up as most of us are not checking out Domme profiles on the other side. The pro Dommes who participate in the forums brings a lot of richness and depth to the discussions and offer a good bit of useful perspective. And they usually have pretty wry sense's of humor too.

Now I and dare I say we do not expect all the subs to organize themselves and defend their reputations as a category. I take the measure of individuals by their actions and words and expect the same consideration. In fact that is the beauty and benefit of theses forums - you find out pretty quickly how genuine a person is and whether you find them interesting or feel an affinity with them. I am by far more interested in fellas that participate in the forums than anyone who does not. And I am in awe of most of the Ladies and thoroughly enjoy the interactions and wisdom shared.

< Message edited by ocilla -- 9/15/2007 2:13:59 PM >

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RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/15/2007 2:22:25 PM

ocilla

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Umm the Doms are less defending their rep as a category and more trying to distinguish quality and types of Doms. They have an incentive to do this since they are in heavy competition with each other. Ya know that thing of there are generally fewer women Dommes and submissives than male subs and Doms - its the market forces of supply and demand beyond dollars at work. Economy of kink if you will.

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RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/15/2007 3:49:40 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
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Whether your opinion is right or wrong isnt for Me to decide.
The thing that gets Me is when someone says My opinion is wrong.
My other favorite is your kink isnt my kink so your wrong for doing it.

I am a Lifestyle/Pro Domme. I do get offended/insulted at times,but hopefully I'm big enough to leave it alone.Stooping to someone elses level isnt cool,even though I have done it,its bad behavior,I try to refrain from doing.

Lumping ALL Pros together is like throwing away a bushel of apples because one is rotten. Again I dont agree with how all Pros operate,I still feel all Pros
need to be defended,because unfortunately the bushel of apples gets thrown away because if one apple is bad there must be other ones too.
Did that make any sense at all??

I love My work/life,all of My friends know and even call Me Mistress sometimes what a hoot anyway....Trying to get rid of the 20 y/o alleged Dom/mes is
never gonna happen,a new one always comes along.
The ones that have a clue and can learn and make it,the others eventually fade away.I think a few Dommes here have...is driven,the right word, the wannabes away.

The other thing is CM is supposed to be welcoming to everyone.
I weed out the ones who are wannabes(submissives too) and make friends with the rest.I actually Mentor a couple of new Dommes,They have to learn somewhere.
Nothing more rewarding than teaching

*disclosure...I'm not perfect,and havent always not stooped or judged people.
I'm only human.

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http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/15/2007 4:45:15 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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Would the pros then please include in their education times that there ARE such things as FreeDommes? Those women that do not charge and are just as skilled as the pros are? (We go to the same groups, munches, seminars and functions as the pro dommes do. We also have dungeons and equipment.)

Please tell them not to approach every domme with a "oh-how much do you charge" or "how much tribute do you require" after they are introduced the first time? It's insulting to us and will severely hamper their search. We'd appreciate it and it probably will help you out in the weeding process.

We explain things like the benefit of professional domination to the eager beavers who can't wait to build a relationship or just want a quicker access to play. We send them your way. So you see, we each have our place. Thanks for being there to pick up the slack :).

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RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/15/2007 5:42:20 PM

ocilla

Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/12/2007
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Mistress Sassy is a great example of a proDomme who is very well regarded in her local community and also adds a lot of wisdom and energy to this CM community.

I am a bit of newbie and do have a kink exploration partner - he is as green as I btw and has some fantasies he is eager to play out that do not appeal to me. We both have lots to learn realtime especially so when we play it makes most sense for us to scene on common interests. His eagerness though for his fantasies was starting to impact the pleasure of our play, I was starting to feel pressured. So, I encouraged him to see a pro. It worked out great. He came back down to earth, grasped the difference between fantasy and reality and the difference between the motivation of a pro versus a non pro (especially one just learning). And when he came back to me - he taught me what she did that he thought I might like and we both learned from his experience. Some new strap on positions, some cbt bondage techniques and what it means when you get wrapped (she did it not me! - but I learned from her mistakes).

In our local community here in Atlanta - there are pro/lifestyle Dommes that host demonstration parties and who attend the munches and community play parties at the local dungeon. I learn a whole lot from them - from caning techniques to violet wand, how to crack a bull whip... etc. The speed of my discovering what appeals to me and does not, and to learning what I want to invest in and do not, is extremely useful. In fact, it was a pro Domme at a munch who first told me about CM. Now similar to how we do not see scammers and such on the boards here neither do I see those types in the real time ATL community. It is easy to smell bullshit. So I will have to back up Mistress Sassy 100% in that lumping all prodommes together is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66

Whether your opinion is right or wrong isnt for Me to decide.
The thing that gets Me is when someone says My opinion is wrong.
My other favorite is your kink isnt my kink so your wrong for doing it.

I am a Lifestyle/Pro Domme. I do get offended/insulted at times,but hopefully I'm big enough to leave it alone.Stooping to someone elses level isnt cool,even though I have done it,its bad behavior,I try to refrain from doing.

Lumping ALL Pros together is like throwing away a bushel of apples because one is rotten. Again I dont agree with how all Pros operate,I still feel all Pros
need to be defended,because unfortunately the bushel of apples gets thrown away because if one apple is bad there must be other ones too.
Did that make any sense at all??

I love My work/life,all of My friends know and even call Me Mistress sometimes what a hoot anyway....Trying to get rid of the 20 y/o alleged Dom/mes is
never gonna happen,a new one always comes along.
The ones that have a clue and can learn and make it,the others eventually fade away.I think a few Dommes here have...is driven,the right word, the wannabes away.

The other thing is CM is supposed to be welcoming to everyone.
I weed out the ones who are wannabes(submissives too) and make friends with the rest.I actually Mentor a couple of new Dommes,They have to learn somewhere.
Nothing more rewarding than teaching

*disclosure...I'm not perfect,and havent always not stooped or judged people.
I'm only human.

_____________________________

Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder

It takes a kinky village...

(in reply to MistressSassy66)

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RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/15/2007 6:23:52 PM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

Honestly, I never gave it much thought. There are profiles from women who say such things as "I will treat you like dirt and keep all your money and you will live like the lowest slave etc..." and there are plenty of men who THINK they are looking for that. It's not what I would or could do, but to each his own. If she is up front about what she wants and there are men willing to give it to her, what's the problem? She has not decieved anyone.

As far as ProDommes go. If they are young, so what? If they aren't good at what they do they won't have a business for long. And it's not as easy as you might think to just fire up a ProDomme business. Do you really think all the women with ProDomme profiles on here are getting rich?

Bottom line-it's none of my business.

(in reply to MissMagnolia)

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Post #: 29

RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/16/2007 6:07:34 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66

to get rid of the 20 y/o alleged Dom/mes is
never gonna happen,a new one always comes along.

And the reason it isn't going to happen is because of men. Pro or Lifestyle Domme censuring them won't do a thing. It comes down to the fact that most men have a thing for young women. They have tight hot bodies. They're able to look at a man with wide eyes and believe what he tells them. Supposed innocence in such a "naughty" field is almost irresistible to many men. I'm not saying that those young women have tight hot bodies, are gullible and innocent, but that men perceive them to be such. Top it off with the fact that most of these men weren't able to attract the top ten percent of women when they were that age.. and now, for a small fee, they can have a part of them. They want the BDSM anyways.. why not go for it from the young hottie they've lusted after since they were 16? And because these "hotties" feed into an old fantasy, the men will keep ponying up money even if the Dominance isn't that good.

Add to that the fact that men are fairly gullible when their dick is hard. A horny man loses 10 IQ points; a horny submissive man loses 40. Horny submissive men in the grasp of need don't stop to consider that what they're reading is way too good to be true. If you want to stop the young scammers, you have to dry up their customer base, and that just isn't going to happen unless you reprogram men.

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*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

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RE: Serious Question for the ladies - 9/16/2007 6:21:38 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Would the pros then please include in their education times that there ARE such things as FreeDommes? Those women that do not charge and are just as skilled as the pros are? (We go to the same groups, munches, seminars and functions as the pro dommes do. We also have dungeons and equipment.)

I think most Pros would shy away from telling men about Lifestyle Domme. Part of that might be the competition but more I think, they just wouldn't want to deal with the men starting to whine to them about freebies. I can just hear the conversations.... but you LIKE me right? You have to like me to do such wonderful things with me. Since you like it, can't we just do it once without me paying? Pleeeeeease? Oh come on...

I personally, was very careful with men who tried to see me after using proDomme. They tended to think it was a pro session, only free. Their attitude, no matter what they claimed up front, was that the D/s was done when they stepped out of scene. I made it very clear up front that I was seeking a full faceted BDSM relationship; that I was seeking a BDSM boyfriend. No male who attended a pro ever lasted longer than two meetings, because they just weren't interested in offering what I wanted. They lied to get played with, but when they weren't horny, couldn't keep up the submissive persona or even treat me with much respect but more like a BDSM booty call. After a couple of years, if I found out a sub had only served proDomme in the past I'd not even meet him. For the most part, the men who use pros rather than trying to find something else, aren't what lifestyle Domme are seeking.

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Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

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