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Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 8:08:30 PM

itseeks

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Where does all the water go and why is it melting to begin with?

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 8:20:05 PM

TheHeretic

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The ice doesn't 'go' anywhere. It just melts. When floating ice melts, it doesn't affect water levels in the slightest.

As for why, well... You see, there are these things called Republicans that are the most powerful forces in the history of the Earth. They are even more powerful than the Sun. It's their fault.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 8:31:36 PM

kiyari

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quote:

ORIGINAL: itseeks

Where does all the water go and why is it melting to begin with?

Why is it melting is one serious question.

Where the water 'goes' is easy...

Water is unique
in that it takes up MORE space in the 'solid' [ice] state than as a liquid

SO, when it melts, there is less VOLUME of it

...neways, that's my understanding

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 8:34:40 PM

Lordandmaster

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Floating ice, yes, but, as I'm sure you're aware, that's not true of ice on land. When ice on land melts, it flows into the ocean and raises water levels.

Anyway...I refuse to believe that ice is melting in the Arctic, because, as everyone knows, global warming is a hoax.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The ice doesn't 'go' anywhere. It just melts. When floating ice melts, it doesn't affect water levels in the slightest.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 9:11:28 PM

ChicagoSwitchMal

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No one thinks global warming is a hoax. It's been proven that the earth is warming up. Whats debated is how much of that is man made. I'm not picking a side on the argument - just clarifying that the earth warming up is not debatable. As for floating ice raising sea levels - underwater floating ice does not raise the sea as it is already displacing water but ice above sea levels does raise sea levels as it drips down.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 9:27:28 PM

Lordandmaster

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That may be true, but there are people who have SAID that global warming is a hoax (even if, deep down, they knew it wasn't a hoax). Pretty influential people, too. Ever heard of James M. Inhofe? He's a senator from Oklahoma. If you've never heard of him, find out what he said about global warming. Hint: he used the word "hoax." Next hint: he sucks Exxon's cock.

If we've truly reached the point that we can see global warming isn't a hoax, maybe we'll soon reach the point when we discern the political agendas motivating the people who've been trying to convince us that it's a hoax. And THEN, finally, we might be able to ask what is causing global warming without being distracted by all the energy-lobby bullshit being hurled in our faces.

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ORIGINAL: ChicagoSwitchMal

No one thinks global warming is a hoax.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 9:34:04 PM

TheHeretic

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But heaven forbid we should discern the political motivations of those who insist that it's all the fault of capitalism and the Republican party (pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!).

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 10:40:29 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But heaven forbid we should discern the political motivations of those who insist that it's all the fault of capitalism and the Republican party (pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!).

TheHeretic, perhaps it would work better if you started a new thread about the Republican's causing the opening of the Northwest passage.

That way the rest of us can discuss the science behind the arctic ice melt without it being a political slug-fest.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 10:44:32 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But heaven forbid we should discern the political motivations of those who insist that it's all the fault of capitalism and the Republican party (pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!).

TheHeretic, perhaps it would work better if you started a new thread about the Republican's causing the opening of the Northwest passage.

That way the rest of us can discuss the science behind the arctic ice melt without it being a political slug-fest.

Sinergy

But then you might not be able to use your favorite "A" word.

Ya'll have fun debating how much the oceans will rise from the part of the melting iceberg that sticks up. Science... Lots of that in here.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 10:54:15 PM

FangsNfeet

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Earth has always had natural cycles of global warming and cooling. Scientist base this on history reports and by examining the gasses found in ice of old glaciers. We're always are going to have our hot years and our cold ones. Sooner or later, we'll have more ice.

Now for where the water goes when the ice melts. There's the ocean and then the sky due to evaporation. We don't notice significant land masses being swallowed up by the ocean because of how gravity from the moon effects water. Plus, it's hard to calculate how much water freezes back to ice over the course of three to six months as seasons change. Through evaporation, most of this may fall back to earth as snow in areas of cold climate and high altitude. As snow falls from a mountain forming rivers which flows into the ocean, more water evaporates and repeats the cycle.

Why does the ice melt. Yes we have four seasons. Winter, Spring, Summer, and Fall. However, the earth does not have a perfect pattern when orbiting the sun. Thus, we end up having decades, centuries, and mellinia with cooler and hotter times through earths history. Also, there is alot of information under the artic that we have not gathered. Ever watch the Deep Blue? Volcanos errupt and release lava all the time on the bottom of the ocean floor. We're still not sure how much nor how often volcanic action goes on under the artic. We have not been able to predict the active and inactive times of our ocean volcanos as well as our ones on land.

Recently, Volcanic action has not has been as significant as before during the last mellinium. Smoke from our past massive volcanic erruptions on land has caused dramatic climate change creating mini ice ages. With these mini Ice Ages, more polarcaps and ice was formed. Eight hundred years later, the smoke has mostly cleared and perhaps the ice is warm enough to melt back to its original state. This may be the trend untill we have another massive volcanic eruption and mini ice age.

Does this piece of info help answer your question?

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 10:54:35 PM

SuzanneKneeling

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Actually, the polar regions are warming faster than the temperate ones. One key reason is the runaway nonlinear (think "snowballing" - and no I don't mean sharing come after a blowjob) effect of warming on places where ice turns into water. Ice (white) reflects solar radiation, while water (dark) absorbs it. So as the polar regions melt, they become progressively darker, which means they absorb more solar heat, and then melt faster.

Some oil-connected Repubican types are actually gleeful about this because new offshore oil sources may be found under what used to be our arctic ice. They are too stupid to realize the havoc that this is going to wreak on the planet that they live on, and the global economy that depends on climate stability to function. It's projected that the worldwide Gross Domestic Product will decline between 20 and 30% due to climate change, if we don't make it an absolute priority to head off the worst of the damage (and perhaps even if we do).

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 11:04:59 PM

SuzanneKneeling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
Does this piece of info help answer your question?

If the question was "how much reasonable-sounding but random, disconnected and unsubstantiated ramble can you come up with at the drop of a hat?", then yes, I would say it did. What exactly are you on about for instance with, "We don't notice significant land masses being swallowed up"? And yes, there are all kinds of cycles. But superimposed on those cycles is a definite upward trend that correlates tightly with our atmospheric carbon production. You make it sound like all of climate change is just due to fluctuations in volcanic activity. That's not the prevailing view at all right now.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 11:05:16 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But then you might not be able to use your favorite "A" word.

Which word is that?

Sinergy

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 11:08:59 PM

SuzanneKneeling

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I'm surprised no one has come on to explain that it was Lewis and Clark who opened up the Northwest Passage, and not global warming. CuriousLord, wouldn't that be your shtick? :)

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 11:43:40 PM

FangsNfeet

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Eaths climate is not only effected by volcanic activity but also from changes in it's magnetic field and activity from the sun.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/10.28Flare.html

The sun has a fourteen year cycle based on it's magnatisim, gravity, and solar flare activity. Each burst or solar flare has the chance to effect the earths magnetic field. Our last Geomagnetic Storm caused by the sun happened in the 1870's. The sun is an ever changing massive power of radiation that can suprise us at anytime.

We also have to consider the changes of Earths Magnetic Field. In periods of being weaken or faded, we're going to be with with more solar radiation. We're still not 100% sure of what goes on in the core with all it's molten lava and Iron.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/29dec_magneticfield.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0909_040909_earthmagfield.html

http://www.earths-magnetic-field-and-how-it-reverses-and-more.com/

These are the things which effect our environment causing changes in climate and temperature.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/15/2007 11:50:37 PM

SuzanneKneeling

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Again, FnF, you're citing things that are true enough, but what is your bottom line point? These things do affect our climate, but they are accounted for in the models. What we are left with is that human-emitted GHGs are the major driving force (roughly 90% of the variance) behind the recent spike in temperature. These are just diversionary points you are throwing out there hoping you'll give people the idea that this is not a settled question.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 12:13:50 AM

FatDomDaddy

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It will freeze again and then it will melt again.

Just like it has been doing for millions of year,

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 3:25:43 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But heaven forbid we should discern the political motivations of those who insist that it's all the fault of capitalism and the Republican party (pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!).

I don't see the Republicans stepping up and funding the BASIC SCIENCE needed to answer questions such as:

"What is the temperature of the earth today?"

Much less the trickier ones like:

"IF we need to reduce the temperature of the earth, what are the most effective ways to do it?"

So, while it may not be the Republicans fault for Global Warming, it is valid to fault them for not getting off their asses and doing the work needed to discover IF there IS a problem we SHOULD do something about, and WHAT to do about it IF it is?

But that sorta cuts both ways, I don't see a shitload of calls for more Basic science from the other side... They could be getting lost in the noise, so that's another damn thing they're all guilty of... Not staying focused on the real questions.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 5:41:33 AM

cyberdude611

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Fargle...
There is no way that we can reduce the planet's temperature. The Sun is going through a very hot period that will peak in 2012 (according to NASA). So like it or not, we are going to keep getting hotter at least through 2012 no matter what we do. It is right now hot enough that the ice caps on Mars is now starting to melt. There is nothing to research as far as that is concerned... We can't control the Sun's output. And if the ice is melting on Mars, Is it not logical to assume that it is possible that since we are closer to the sun that it just might be part of the reason why our ice caps are melting and why our temperature keeps rising?

I mean if the sun continues to throw more radiation and heat in our direction, we are going to warm up. And no amount of conservation will stop it.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 7:55:50 AM

Lordandmaster

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At least all you Kool-Aid swallowers are admitting that you MIGHT be wrong. If global warming continues unabated past 2012, you'd all have to admit that you were wrong about this. For now, every model predicts that global warming will actually ACCELERATE after 2012, but don't let those pesky details bother you.

Whoever said "sooner or later, we'll have ice again"...I have to laugh...that's cute. Yeah, a few millennia from now, after homo sapiens is long gone and can't release greenhouse gases anymore, we might get some ice back.

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