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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 5:20:46 AM   
subrob1967


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I'm still waiting for the "Kyoto" crowd to tell India and China to stop developing, because they're generating too many carbon emissions.

The only "carbon footprint" I'm leaving, is the one on Al Gore's ass, after stepping in all the bullshit he's spewing.

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 5:27:38 AM   
Rule


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China is being rewarded for its effective birth control measures.
 
These large paddles really add to the height of short posts. Cannot they be made a bit smaller and more inclined, like the bracelets?

< Message edited by Rule -- 9/17/2007 5:30:03 AM >

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 7:53:33 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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HaveRope, that was mine too. I thought that was telling. Even the one group of scientists (well, petroleum geologists are more like engineers in their daily focus) whose livelihoods are artificially buoyed by continued public perception of their being a "debate" on this, has come out and agreed with the rest of the scientific community on the evidence.

The other formerly complicit denial artist whom people confused by Exxon's misinformation campaign may want to take note of is a certain President George W. Bush. Now, personally I don't consider his opinion on scientific issues to be worth as much as the methane-producing material found in the pastures of his ranch, but his existence in office was conceived, bought and funded by the oil industry. Even his blue-ribbon panel from the NAS (I think that was the group) said effectively, "yeah, this is obvious now".

I think that leaves only Dick Cheney, who is still trying to convince the public subliminally that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 8:06:43 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
That is the Milenkovitch lie. In fact there have been drastic rises in average global temperatures of at least five degrees occurring in less than a year. (The climatologists are scared by that as they do not understand how that is possible; I do.) Also there have been significant drops in global temperatures due to volcanic activity (like that of Santorini in 1649 BC).[/size]


Rule, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are genuinely deluded about the significance of what you are saying, rather than purposefully trying to keep the obfuscation going (pardon me but they are legion on the web, dropping in to plant specious objections, hoping the uninformed will think "hmm, yeah, there are big doubts about this"). There isn't a climatologist outside of a coma state who doesn't well understand that volcanic activity exerts a cooling effect on the earth (sometimes for many decades). The volcanic record is actually one of the easier things in geology to document. Your personal epiphany on this, hard as it is for you to believe, has not escaped their grasp - nor has it escaped their models.

[sarcasm for emphasis]
I'm curious - what climatology-related field do you do research in? You obviously are overdue to publish this unique insight that has occurred to you. There are clearly thousands of PhD climatologists around the world who would read it, slap their heads hard, and say "Of course! Volcanoes! Why didn't we think of that?".
[/end sarcasm]

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 8:16:14 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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Popeye, are you illiterate, or just so consumed by your fear of the other 95% of humanity that you can't get past the fact that the United Nations (insert scary rightwing radio music here) agrees with all of OUR scientific organizations on this issue? Did you look at that wikipedia link?

I suggest to you that you may want to put as much weight on what is said by all of the major national and international scientific organizations as by your 1 biochemist friend at Tufts who is bitter because he isn't getting funding. (Could that possibly have anything to do with the quality of his prior work? Judging from how uninformed he is about the major scientific issue of our time - albeit almost completely unrelated to his field - I think it a distinct possibility.)

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 8:51:41 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
That is the Milenkovitch lie. In fact there have been drastic rises in average global temperatures of at least five degrees occurring in less than a year. (The climatologists are scared by that as they do not understand how that is possible; I do.) Also there have been significant drops in global temperatures due to volcanic activity (like that of Santorini in 1649 BC).


Rule, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are genuinely deluded about the significance of what you are saying, rather than purposefully trying to keep the obfuscation going (pardon me but they are legion on the web, dropping in to plant specious objections, hoping the uninformed will think "hmm, yeah, there are big doubts about this"). There isn't a climatologist outside of a coma state who doesn't well understand that volcanic activity exerts a cooling effect on the earth (sometimes for many decades). The volcanic record is actually one of the easier things in geology to document. Your personal epiphany on this, hard as it is for you to believe, has not escaped their grasp - nor has it escaped their models.

[sarcasm for emphasis]
I'm curious - what climatology-related field do you do research in? You obviously are overdue to publish this unique insight that has occurred to you. There are clearly thousands of PhD climatologists around the world who would read it, slap their heads hard, and say "Of course! Volcanoes! Why didn't we think of that?".
[/end sarcasm]

Perhaps you should follow a course in comprehensive reading? What is all this delirious ranting about volcanoes? Of course I know that climatologists know what the effect of volcanic eruptions is on climatic conditions. Please do not bore me with the consequences of your superficial reading abilities and misperceptions.

I was referring not to volcanoes (which were an aside remark pertaining to sudden global drops in temperatures, as opposed to the sudden temperature increases mentioned one or two sentences earlier), but to Millennial-Scale Global Climate Changes. I hope that you are familiar with the term? If not...

I wrote an extensive chapter about the end of the ice ages in my astronomy book. It took a lengthy and intensive literature research, so yeah, I do know a lot about the subject matter. (It is a subject that a whole book or a series of books may be dedicated to, I realised at the time.) I published the third edition under own management in 2000 and it was ignored by the scientific community (journals and commercial publishers). They had some reason to, but to me it proved the microcephalic nature of their intellects. (There were a few exceptions.)

There are about 150 copies of the various editions of my book out there and I know that two people have actually read the third and most advanced edition; one of them I know for sure is dead and the other one presumably is dead also.

< Message edited by Rule -- 9/17/2007 9:23:53 AM >

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 9:07:37 AM   
pollux


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Suzanne, have you forgotten about our conversation regarding the thoroughness of the data collection & processing -- and openness to critical review! -- applied to global surface temperature data?

How did you put it in your response to Fargle.....

quote:

You are trying to pick nits off the back of a single ground-truthing node in an enormous universe of data that has been carefully processed and appropriately adjusted by a huge field of trained scientists. Scientists who enjoy nothing better than catching one of their peers in a slip-up of an actual unaccounted-for confound.


...yes, I think those were your words.

Anyway!  Just following up on our discussion.  I noticed you didn't comment when I bumped the thread, but perhaps you missed it.  It's here:

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1222672

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 9:58:03 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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Pollux, I don't really have time (or inclination) to research the monetary and political motivations (let alone publication record in climatology) of all of these persons, but here's a smattering (mostly names I'm familiar with because they are among the "usual suspects" regularly trotted out for this purpose). Keep in mind that there are thousands of published climatologists, and the organizations that represent them are all firmly convinced of anthropogenic climate change. The work of 2,000 experts went into the IPCC report alone.

Also, as you note, a lot of your "skeptics" simply disagree on the proportion of the problem that is due to human actions. They agree that we are contributing.


Soon and Baliunas:

http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2006/05/02/PaidtoDenyGlobalWarming/

Sallie Baliunas is a non-Canadian signatory to the deniers letter. She is a Harvard-Smithsonian Institute astrophysicist who has been giving global warming deniers scientific cover since the mid-1990s. She is a senior scientist at the George C. Marshall Institute (received $310,000 from Exxon Mobil). She co-wrote (with colleague Willie Soon, who did not sign the skeptics letter) the Fraser Institute pamphlet "Global warming: a guide to the science." (The Fraser Institute receives $60,000 a year from Exxon Mobil.) Baliunas is "enviro-sci" host of TechCentralStation.com (received $95,000 from Exxon Mobil) and is on science advisory boards of the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow ($252,000) and the Annapolis Center for Science-Based Public Policy ($427,500). She has given speeches before the American Enterprise Institute ($960,000) and the Heritage Foundation ($340,000). The Heartland Institute ($312,000) publishes her op-ed pieces.

Balling and Singer (the Godfather of gw denial) have a long history of funding from Exxon:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/featurex/2005/05/exxon_chart.html

Singer earlier tried to help the tobacco industry obfuscate the scientific consensus linking smoking and cancer. There's big money to be made in confusing the public for industries whose bottom line require it.

Lindzen, though his work is government-funded, takes lots of money from the oil industry on the side.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/50494

For a list of some of the other think tanks and websites that Exxon gave $8 million to between 2000 and 2003 to mislead people like you, check out that Mother Jones expose I linked above.

Again, this is a huge field. In any group of several thousand scientists you are going to be able to find a dozen or so who - whether for sincere or disingenuous reasons - take issue with the consensus. Sometimes - though I can't speak to how or whether this applies specifically to people on that list - it is as simple as chagrin because their earlier work is debunked by the overwhelming literature since then, and they are trying to salvage their status in the field to preserve the relevance of their work.

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 10:07:44 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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Rule, I apologize if I misintepreted the thrust of that post of yours. It sounded like you were arguing that since volcanic activity can drastically alter the climate in a matter of several short years (true), that therefore the current human-timescale temperature spike we are seeing is probably naturally-caused (perhaps by some... volcanic eruption of anti-matter?).

I may have swept you into the deniers camp with a too-broad brush. Sorry if that was the case.

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 10:19:28 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

Popeye, are you illiterate, or just so consumed by your fear of the other 95% of humanity that you can't get past the fact that the United Nations (insert scary rightwing radio music here) agrees with all of OUR scientific organizations on this issue? Did you look at that wikipedia link?

I suggest to you that you may want to put as much weight on what is said by all of the major national and international scientific organizations as by your 1 biochemist friend at Tufts who is bitter because he isn't getting funding. (Could that possibly have anything to do with the quality of his prior work? Judging from how uninformed he is about the major scientific issue of our time - albeit almost completely unrelated to his field - I think it a distinct possibility.)


Wow, spoken like a true scientist.
Of course the "U.N." "agrees" with people like you!
They sense another money scam like "KYOTO!"
And why aren't they trying to "sell" this crap to third world countries? Could it be that they,..."don't have any money?"
All you have to do is say "U.S. Taxpayer Dollars" to them and their eyes glaze over and they go into a trance.
The very fact that the "U.N." "agrees" with you kills your argument for many people.
Getting the "U.N." involved in global warming would be like picking out a taxi driver at random and getting him "involved" in neuro surgery.
Now what color would be good for the beanies to go with the Global Warming Uniforms?
You don't want to be outdone by the UFO People's uniforms now, do you?
Hey! Why don't you have Congressman Patrick "Patches" Kennedy (D.-R.I.) for a "spokesperson!"
("The more we drink the better these people sound!")
He's a big supporter of the "U.N." and, he even has a college "degree" with an i.q. of 85!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/17/2007 10:32:51 AM >


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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 10:28:14 AM   
pollux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

Pollux, I don't really have time (or inclination) to research the monetary and political motivations (let alone publication record in climatology)


But of course you don't, because in Lindzen's case (for example), your argument to authority would be shattered by his credentials and publication record.

quote:

of all of these persons, but here's a smattering (mostly names I'm familiar with because they are among the "usual suspects" regularly trotted out for this purpose). Keep in mind that there are thousands of published climatologists, and the organizations that represent them are all firmly convinced of anthropogenic climate change. The work of 2,000 experts went into the IPCC report alone.


Strawman.  The issue isn't whether or not (#1) global warming is occurring, or even if human activities are "contributing" to the warming.  Nearly everyone in the debate acknowledges that much.  The issues are (#2) how much (if any) of the warming is due to anthropegenic causes (specifically, CO2 emissions), and more importantly, (#3) what the consequences and implications of that are and (#4) what ought to be done about it.

You are implying that because there is scientific consensus on #1 there is a scientific consensus on #2, #3, and #4.  There's not.  And what's worse, people who have looked critically and objectively into the methodology by which the consensus thinking on #1 was arrived at have found errors in the data and have been stonewalled by the gatekeepers of that data.

And this claim that Lindzen is somehow in the pocket of Big Oil (insert scary leftwing music) is just... laughable, as anyone with the ability to  see beyond the confines of alternet (puh-leeeze) can easily find out for themselves.

quote:

He has published papers on Hadley circulation, monsoon meteorology, planetary atmospheres, hydrodynamic instability, mid-latitude weather, global heat transport, the water cycle, and their roles in climate change, ice ages, seasonal atmospheric effects.[2]

He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences and the Science and Economic Advisory Council of the Annapolis Center for Science-Based Public Policy.[3] He previously held positions at the University of Chicago and Harvard University, and was a contributor to Chapter 4 of the "IPCC Second Assessment", "Climate Change 1995". He is known for pioneering the study of ozone photochemistry,[4] and advised several student theses on the subject.[5]

Prof. Lindzen is a recipient of the American Meteorological Society's Meisinger and Charney Awards, and American Geophysical Union's Macelwane Medal. He is a corresponding member of the NAS Committee on Human Rights, a member of the NRC Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate, and a Fellow of the AAAS1. He is a consultant to the Global Modeling and Simulation Group at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, and a Distinguished Visiting Scientist at California Institute of Technology's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. (Ph.D., '64, S.M., '61, A.B., '60, Harvard University)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lindzen


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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 10:44:33 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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Pollux, thanks for the heads up - I don't actually come here most of the time. Sort of like a few days off and on, then weeks away. Anyway, read through some of that (the Herald editorial is now offline for non-payers). Here's the other half of the story, if you're interested.

http://realclimate.org/index.php?s=McIntyre&submit=Search&qt=&q=&cx=009744842749537478185%3Ahwbuiarvsbo&client=google-coop-np&cof=GALT%3A808080%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A34374A%3BVLC%3AAA8610%3BAH%3Aleft%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A66AA55%3BLC%3A66AA55%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A66AA55%3BGIMP%3A66AA55%3BFORID%3A11%3B&searchdatabase=site

(my - Suzanne's - summary) Basically, there's no conspiracy here. NASA thanked (and credited) McIntyre, and corrected the data. This correction resulted in a minor change to the ordering of US annual temperatures which still left 1998-2004 as the hottest period on record, but was not even perceptible in changing the worldwide trend. (As an aside, I find it rather poetically appropriate, in a sad way, that a major source of the conservative blogoshpere's confusion on this was mistaking the United States for the whole of the planet.)

Also, it had nothing to do with any "Y2K bug".

Next?

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 11:00:22 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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Wow. Again back on the UN, despite this having next to nothing to do with them. I didn't realize you struggled with obsessive compulsive disorder. My sympathies. Fortunately, there's help.

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/clomipr_ids.htm

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 11:28:15 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

Wow. Again back on the UN, despite this having next to nothing to do with them. I didn't realize you struggled with obsessive compulsive disorder. My sympathies. Fortunately, there's help.

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/clomipr_ids.htm


LOL, who's obsessive?
Go back and read your own posts.

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 11:48:59 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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Pollux, I think you slightly misread that line of mine you quoted. Note the word "anthropogenic". The syllogism I am presenting is not "#1, therefore union(#2, #3, #4)" I am starting with premise #2. The reason I am comfortable starting there is - as I linked to - that every major US and international scientific body has arrived at this conclusion. I do not say (or have not meant to) that every last credentialled scientist on the planet agrees that we are driving most/all of the recent warming. Do you have any idea how unprecedented that would be, to have thousands (or tens of thousands) of scientists in lockstep on something fairly complex? Cripes, there are still reputable geologists (well, at least one at Cornell named Gold) who believe that oil isn't compressed and heated prehistoric life, and that it is still being created in the earth.

Do you know why there isn't a counterpart wiki page to your "dissenters" page? It's because it already exists in another form - it's called the collective database of peer reviewed geological and atmospheric literature of the past decade. To put the names of the people whose research (and informed reviews) agreed with the current consensus (which their findings helped arrive at, of course), would take you several minutes to download with a DSL line.

I never said that Lindzen didn't have a credible background. I did say that he was getting consulting fees from the oil companies. Alternet often just reposts mainstream articles, so I didn't bother to look for a bigger source. I realize it's not your FoxNews, but perhaps PBS will be received better. You're going to have to accuse them of not just a liberal bias, but flat-out fabrication. (They actually source others, but the Harper's story seems to be subscription-only.)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/reports/skeptics.html

Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D.
Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Affiliations & Funding: Dr. Lindzen has claimed in Newsweek and elsewhere that his funding comes exclusively from government sources, but he does not seem to include speaking fees and other personal compensation in this statement. Ross Gelbspan, who did some of the first reporting on climate skeptics' links to industry, wrote in Harper's Magazine in 1995: "[Lindzen] charges oil and coal interests $2,500 a day for his consulting services; his 1991 trip to testify before a Senate committee was paid for by Western Fuels, and a speech he wrote, entitled 'Global Warming: the Origin and Nature of Alleged Scientific Consensus,' was underwritten by OPEC."

Dr. Lindzen is a member of the Advisory Council of the Annapolis Center for Science Based Public Policy, which has received large amounts of funding from ExxonMobil and smaller amounts from Daimler Chrysler, according to a review Exxon's own financial documents and 990s from Daimler Chrysler's Foundation. Lindzen is a also been a contributor to the Cato Institute, which has taken $90,000 from Exxon since 1998, according to the website Exxonsecrets.org and a review Exxon financial documents. He is also a contributor for the George C. Marshall Institute.


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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 11:51:32 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling
Rule, I apologize if I misintepreted the thrust of that post of yours.

Apology accepted.

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 11:59:46 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

And what's worse, people who have looked critically and objectively into the methodology by which the consensus thinking on #1 was arrived at have found errors in the data and have been stonewalled by the gatekeepers of that data.



This is part of the Big Conspiracy mindset, Pollux. Did you read my response to the big "McIntyre Y2K incident" (on this thread, not the old one)? Science is really not this big evil totalitarian entity that you've been led to think.

< Message edited by SuzanneKneeling -- 9/17/2007 12:00:51 PM >

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 12:05:21 PM   
lapresence


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~~ fast reply

The ice cores have illustrated a greater jump in temperature during the past 50 years than any other 50 year span of time that we can observe.  Another indicator of global warming in the destruction of forests in Alaska.  For the first time in a very long time, it is warm enough for bugs to decimate those forests.  Meaning we have fewer trees to convert carbon dioxide into oxygen. 

On the other hand, Volcanic activity is extremely low, and it would solve many problems if a few (but not the super-volcanoes - just say no) would errupt.  They are overdue.  But we can't make them, all we can do is adjust the way we think to leave a smaller footprint.  One of the things that alarms me most with sea levels rising is the contamination of aquifers that we depend on for water.  Water is the real crisis coming (be it contamination of drinking water and a loss of land mass to the oceans), not energy. 

Yes, it would be nice if we could force China and India to adopt cleaner technologies.  But you have the philosophical dilemma, we did the polluting as we developed.  And I don't think any developed nation cares to run a charity for other countries.  And we don't want to give our competitors our technology for free just because they are polluting more than we are.  I remember in one of my classes at Michigan State (I studied Environmental Policy) most of the class said something along the lines of giving our clean technology to China.  I had the only dissenting opinion. 

So here's my schtick.  We live in the real world.  We can do what we can to reduce emissions.  There is no stopping global warming, it's happening.  But we can reduce our impact.  First, understand that hurricanes are the AC for Earth.  She's gotta turn it up, so we need to be prepared for it. 

I'm a huge advocate of Nuclear Power, assuming we can deal with the security issues (and that is a huge issue).  Here I mean waste, because the chance of an accident is becoming slimmer and slimmer. 

It would be nice to say we are going to start being proactive, but I also think we need to be prepared for the coming changes to this earth.  There would be a smoother transition if we stopped arguing about whether it is occuring and prepare for a worst case scenerio. 

Look what happened with CFCs.  The hole in the ozone layer is shrinking.  We didn't know what the end result would be, but the developed nations decided it was worth making some changes. 

If Global Warming isn't happening due to human activity, at least think about how we will leave the earth in the best shape that we can for future generations.  If it is (and I think it is), Is it hopeless?  No.  Is it going to suck in certain ways?  Yes.  But we do have a responsibility to future generations: to leave as much or as good.  Do we need to sacrifice all our advances and comforts?  I don't think so.  Anyway, that's just me. 

BTW, for the person that mentioned recycling; depending on the product, recycling isn't always the best option.  The chemicals they use to recycle products can be pretty toxic.  Best option: Reduce and Reuse. 

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 12:26:16 PM   
SuzanneKneeling


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Just curious, lapresence, what are you worried that China would do with it if we "gave" them a design for a more efficient wind turbine? (Actually, I think most technology transfer happens within the private sector, and is only okayed by the government.)

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RE: The Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - 9/17/2007 2:03:43 PM   
pollux


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Suzanne:

Perhaps you're confused as to the nature of our disagreement on that thread.

It was not over the statistical significance of McIntyre's findings, nor was it over whether or not there's any "conspiracy" (but hey, they sure do make nice strawmen, don't they?)

The disagreement stemmed from your assertion that scientists always graciously and magnanimously accept honest and objective criticism of their processes and data.  I responded with an example where this was not the case.  Hansen was dragged to the facts kicking and screaming, and tried to release the corrections to the data without notifying anybody.  He only acknowledged the change because McIntyre was holding his feet to the fire -- publicly -- over it.  Now Hansen and his defenders are trying to hand-wave this all away by saying, "Hey!  What's a few tenths of a DegC between friends?"

My point in bringing this up is that both you and Hansen dismissed McIntyre's arguments on the basis that (in your opinion) he had no credentials and no authority from which to argue.  Both of you dismissed his criticisms not on their merits, but solely because he was a so-called "right-wing blogger".  That turned out to be a (decidedly unscientific) mistake.

You claim that the scientific method serves as a defense against corruption by ideology or political motivation.  Now, I'm not sure if you're an actual scientist or merely playing at being one, but your style of argument and overt slams at political beliefs you find disagreeable don't give me a lot of confidence your views are untained by politics or ideology.

FTR, here's a (hopefully) fair-use exerpt from the Herald op-ed:

quote:

The latest wrinkle in the global-warming controversy finds the National Aeronautics and Space Administration quietly correcting its historical data to compensate for an earlier error, a correction that should deflate some of the recent panic-mongering about an apparently warming Earth.

   The correction reduced the average temperatures for 2000-2006 in the continental United States by about 0.27 degrees Fahrenheit (with many stations showing lower readings and many showing readings much above average). That dethroned 1998 as the hottest year on record, a distinction in the NASA data set that now belongs to 1934 (by an insignificant margin over 1998). Several other recent hot years were moved down in the rankings, and the 1930s now account for four of the top 10.

   The number changes don’t greatly affect worldwide averages - but they reveal a disturbing arrogance among scientists in the community of global-warming true believers.

   The data-handling error - the assumption that one set of numbers was identical to another when it was not - was discovered by Canadian researcher Steve McIntyre, who notified NASA on Aug. 4. NASA almost immediately corrected its Web site, but without any notice of the changes. You can bet that if the correction had shifted the data the other way, there would have been press releases, news conferences and lugubrious music on the TV news. As it was, it was left to the conservative blogosphere to spread the word; the mainstream media ignored the episode.

   That’s not the worst of it. NASA refused to release to McIntyre the computer codes it used to make the correction, though a huge amount of the agency’s other climate codes are online. McIntyre believes there are “real and interesting statistical issues” involved in the records of the observing stations on which NASA relies, issues of whether the proper corrections have been made for the well-known “heat island” effects of urban areas. Most warming believers take it on faith that they have; McIntyre says he knows of too many instances where a thermometer has been placed closer than 100 feet to a paved surface.

   Science is not supposed to work by secrecy. Stonewalling by NASA will only increase the number and fervor of the skeptics.


(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
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