RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do?

RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (Full Version)

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Estring -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:05:47 AM)
She sounds like someone who should be having nothing to do with bdsm or relationships until she works out some things. She doesn't seem interested in working them out, and in reality, there is nothing you will be able to do for her. She is trouble.

BeingChewsie -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:10:17 AM)
Oddly I'm with Bob on this one. She needs to learn to control her submissive impulses and if it takes putting her hand on the hot stove a few times so be it, she'll learn. She needs to learn to handle this, there will be men her whole life trying to press her boundaries and enforce their dominance. Are you going to protect her from all those men her whole life? Ya, that will really protect her from anguish. I suspect depsite the denials she likes it, in which case if you stick your nose in it, you'll lose your friend.

AquaticSub -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:10:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Theophrastus If I had already made my decision, why do you think I'm posting here? I am looking for advice, but your constant attempts to impugn my character don't aid that process. You got advice. And unless there is a lot more to this story it really doesn't sound like your friend is in any danger of anything but a having to tell a guy no and change her habits. If she is trying to figure out if she is submissive or not is her journey, not yours. Edited to add: That she is changing all those habits tells a lot more than what you gave in the first place. But the cold fact is that it still isn't your place to decide her life for her. You aren't her parent or her dominant. If she does not want to make a case, she doesn't have to. Pushing her to do something before she is ready is only going to make things worse and cut you out of her life. Be there when needed, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Let her live her life, bumps and all.

xoxi -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:12:58 AM)
Honest advice from a girl who has made plenty of shitty decisions in relationships....especially in college...and who grew out of it: Stay the fuck out of it. She will not be grateful. She will be angry. Are you going to tell the police that she's a submissive (aka a freak) or are you going to force her to tell the cops "no I like it"??? That's a GREAT thing to do to a woman who's been raped. And then what are you going to do if you call the cops, she sends them home, and the guy DOES rape her. You think she's going to press charges? Christ it's hard enough to press rape charges without having told the cops "no its ok I like him" in the past. Do you like this girl or something...as more than friends? My only guy friends who always got involved in my relationships were the ones who thought they were better than the "half cocky jackasses" I dated. Their words, not mine. God let me get out of this thread before I strangle someone but before I do let me just tell you...you can give a friend as much advice as you want but you can not force them to take it. Why not just kidnap her and lock her in a basement? Then the guy can't get to her either. The sad part is she KNOWS how obsessive you are and that's why she won't even tell you his name. Fucking hell we're all adults, and the only way to stop making bad choices is to learn from them. For all you know she might be enjoying a cat and mouse game of playing the coquette and was dumb enough to mention it to you. Let her live her own life.

kdsub -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:15:31 AM)
Just a though…maybe…. now just maybe… she is getting what she desires but has a problem telling you that. If she is submissive she may be trying to please you both. She may pick up on your attitude towards the man and does not want to displease you. Just something to check out and be sure it is not the case otherwise you may loose her as a friend down the road when she feels she must may a choice. Butch

DiurnalVampire -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:19:39 AM)
Right now, unless you believe that thre is anything more than jus emotional use going on, there is nothing you can do but let her realize it on her own. Submissive or not, you treat someone badly for long enough and they realize it and take control. Maybe what you have seen has only been the tip of the iceberg and there is a positive side to how he treats her as well. If you have seen her with this guy, and she wont tell you his name, then introduce yourself. Just say hi, talk to him. There is a chance he ISNT as bad as you see, but that you are just seeing one side of whats going on. You might also want to talk to one of the councelors that universities have available. Tell them what you are worried about and see what they have to say. They may share your concern, and speak to her themselves. Or they may se things the way many of us have and tell you to let her make her own mistakes. Until this guy becomes dangerous, there might be nothing to do. DV

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:21:38 AM)
Hi Theophrastus, I'm going to take your concern at face value, and offer advice from the stance that this is your friend. You know her in a way we cannot. Because I can't really know your motives or hers, all I can do is assume your concern is real and work from there. First off, I don't think anything he's done so far, constitutes any real justification for being a threat EXCEPT, your friend expresses concern, appears distraught, and has shared her fears with you. The very best thing you can do to help her would be to guide her toward self sufficiency. The first concern I have, is your friends apparent lack of empowerment. Research some women's defense classes. They are usually pretty easy to find around most any college campus. Help her and encourage her to take these self defense classes. Better yet, attend the class with her. It can be very empowering to feel you can protect yourself if necessary. There are non-lethal, temporarily disabling moves that can give your friend time to escape if the worst case scenario happens. Because you state that she is at war with her own nature, I would suggest that you help her by guiding her toward a local submissive support group where she can meet other men/women who are experienced submissives. Some of the most self-assured and gracious women I know are those who are confident in their own lifestyle choices. By interacting with a positive role model, it can help her come to terms with her own nature. It may also help her network and find a more experienced and responsibile dominant than the one currently attempting to assert dominance over her. Please keep in mind, that your friend may be giving off mixed signal to this dominant guy in your scenario. He may be stumbling along in the dark, doing what he believes she wants. Because your friend is at war with herself, she may not even realize that she's putting out all these mixed and conflicting signals to you and this guy. Think how damaging this could be for the guy in question, if his motives are sincere, and all of a sudden he's faced with harrasment charges? He's a student as well, and could be as confused as your friend is about what she wants - and probably as inexperienced as she is in how to provide that dominance for her. Finally and MOST IMPORTANTLY, respect your friends wishes! No means NO. It doesn't help her self confidence to have one guy forcing his attentions on her, but it most definitely doesn't help her self confidence to have her friend who claims to be looking out for her, disregarding her wishes as well. It places you smack square into the same abusive, aggressive, non-consensual pattern of actions that you attribute to the dominant male in question. Just my thoughts on the matter - based off the very limited scope of information your shared. Charlotte

xoxi -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:26:28 AM)
quote: He may be stumbling along in the dark, doing what he believes she wants. Because your friend is at war with herself, she may not even realize that she's putting out all these mixed and conflicting signals to you and this guy. Think how damaging this could be for the guy in question, if his motives are sincere, and all of a sudden he's faced with harrasment charges? That is SO true...for all you know she could have told him "wouldn't it be hot if you just broke into my dorm one night and held me down and kissed me?" when she was allllll about it and then he did it at a time when she was all feeling women's-lib-guilt about her desires and it freaked her out. Please please please please don't be a shithead about this, OP. This is honestly none of your business. If she calls the cops, you can be there to say that she had been discussing this for weeks leading up to it and back up her word. But you have no right to do it yourself, if anything you will just make her MORE confused about her desires and convince her they are something she has to shut up in a box because men slapping women is ALWAYS illegal and wrong, and men holding women down and kissing them is ALWAYS illegal and wrong. Just let this one go. If you honestly can't do that, you should get counseling for yourself and figure out why.

xoxi -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:28:23 AM)
Oh yeah. This too. quote: It places you smack square into the same abusive, aggressive, non-consensual pattern of actions that you attribute to the dominant male in question. And just for emphasis: It places you smack square into the same abusive, aggressive, non-consensual pattern of actions that you attribute to the dominant male in question. It places you smack square into the same abusive, aggressive, non-consensual pattern of actions that you attribute to the dominant male in question. So quit it already.

Mercnbeth -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:29:58 AM)
Theo, Are you alone in the assessment of the "problem"? As disjointed and convoluted as the story you relate, the drama it presents is far from unique in your current environment. Many people seek out drama and seek enablers who support it. Her claims to have been "raped before" and "got over it"; indicate either a much deeper problem or 'soap opera' drama. The fact that her situation would end up "...dragging the whole campus through the ordeal."; and won't acknowledge his name, leans me toward drama. Who knows this could all be some on-line fantasy she's playing. What is her motivation to continue it and what is yours - because obviously there are options available short of accusations of "sexual harassment" and the associated far ranging and long term consequences that come with that accusation. Many factors could be contributing. Is this her first year and first time away from home? Is she mentally and emotionally ready to be living alone? Is her "submission" a function of experiencing, for the first time of her life, self determination and accountability? The other person, the "dom" may be taking advantage of her, but so could you. Whether at the Psych 101 level or a grad student in psychology you are far too close to the problem to properly assess it. Suggestion? STOP enabling; you aren't solving any problem you are a factor in it continuing. You've done enough listening and pointed out the options available, you can't help someone who responds to every legitimate suggestion with a reason they "just can't" do whatever it takes. I have a sense that she just loves the attention she's getting from you. Maybe the best way to end her problems is stop the attention. You want to "help" - report exactly what she's related to you to the appropriate authority at the college. You have no need of the name of the perpetration to do so. If what she relates is real - she'll get help. It will involve the authorities at the school as well as the local police. The issues of her past rape will be out in the open. It would be the best thing for her - unless of course its all made up. Oh and btw - "submission", as its referred to by most here, has no resemblance to her behavior. Her "submission" seems to be a rationalization for excusing what may, or may not, have happened to her in the past and provides a convenient excuse for what is allegedly happening to her now.

Bobkgin -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:35:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi So quit it already. Yo, Xoxi [:D] Dandelion break, five minutes ... highly recommended [;)]

Theophrastus -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 11:53:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin quote: ORIGINAL: Theophrastus If I had already made my decision, why do you think I'm posting here? quote: ORIGINAL: Theophrastus I do know I want to do whatever I can to protect her from further anguish. So what do I do in this situation? If she eventually does succumb to her submissive side, is it my place to attempt to dissuade her? Can I morally disclose the situation to higher authorities without her consent? Can I morally not bring in higher authorities, knowing what may happen if I don't? There's another wrinkle to this: she won't tell me the guy's name. The course of action I must take seems clear to me: wheedle the name out of her by any means necessary, and then alert the authorities. She may be a little resentful, but for her safety, that's a price I'm willing to pay. Seems clear to me you've made up your mind. The blue is window-dressing when your intent, in red, is obvious. quote: I am looking for advice, No, you are seeking encouragement, which is why the above follows several paragraphs of your interpretation of events. Oh ye of little faith. It now seems evident to me that, at any rate, goingt o the authorities will not do me any good. Any case would have to hinge upon her testimony, and if she is unwilling to give it, then there's no point in dragging everyone through the process. I'm going to try to convince her to do so, but ideological reasons aside, it has to be her decision. That, and the slim but nonzero chance that she may be lying. Moreover, your reproaches have had their intended effect. It is indeed her life to lead, so if she eventually decides that this is the relationship she wants, I should stay out. That said, given her behavior last night, I highly doubt that that's what she's going to choose. The more likely situation is that she attempts to avoid this guy, and fails. He continues pursuiing her, and she remains in danger, but because she is unwilling to involve the authorities, he continues to be a source of anguish for her. In that situation, what would you do?

xoxi -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 12:00:00 PM)
LOL I seriously woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. I have coffee. I even have a rice krispie treat. What's the problem?? Theo, I'm really glad you're taking the advice other (nicer) people have given. In the situation I mentioned, I would emotionally distance myself. I've had two close guy friends, who through all my relationship drama of the past, just listened, and gave me a hug. That's it. They knew there was nothing they could do to 'fix' it though if anyone actually hurt me physically they would be ready to beat him with a bat. Just listen...and support her...and let her know you care. And be ready with that bat [;)]

AquaticSub -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 12:13:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Theophrastus The more likely situation is that she attempts to avoid this guy, and fails. He continues pursuiing her, and she remains in danger, but because she is unwilling to involve the authorities, he continues to be a source of anguish for her. In that situation, what would you do? What she wants. You still don't take her life into your hands. You still haven't told us about anything that would put her in danger. I have changed my habits to avoid men I didn't want to deal with but was in no danger from so her changing her habits doesn't mean danger. If she doesn't want to involve the authorities, you have to respect her decision to do so. She is over 18 and not your submissive. That said - if you think that you are in danger because of this man feel free to call the police. I urged one friend to call the police because he was being threatened by a woman's pyscho ex. Of course, he went the "manly" route and decided not to, but I can't live his life for him.

SusanofO -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 12:28:02 PM)
I agree wtih AquaticSub. Someone else mentioned the term "Drama queen" IMO, and it seems apt here. Granted, she is young and may not know better really (and in that sense it is probasbly good she has you there), but whenever I've felt my life was genuinely being endangered by a guy (and it has only happened to me twice, thank God) but - I know everyone is different, but - all I am saying is - I never ever even hesitated to get the police involved, once I realized it would indeed make me safer (which at most, in one case, took me a day to decide to do). I think if she actually was terribly worried, she would call the police, IMO. This way, she gets loads of attention from you, but she still doesn't do anything to fix what she seems intent on complaining about. I have to kind of wonder what her point is in doing that. She might just really be confused about the whole situation, in which case, I agree with what someone esle said - just listen to her, but know you can't change her situation. She is the one who has to decide to do that. Good luck. - Susan

Aswad -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 12:35:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi Just let this one go. If you honestly can't do that, you should get counseling for yourself and figure out why. And that's really all that needs to be said. If the OP can't let her go, then the OP is the one with the problem. Health, al-Aswad.

Bobkgin -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 12:35:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Theophrastus Oh ye of little faith. You are still worrying me. Here's why ... quote: It now seems evident to me that, at any rate, going to the authorities will not do me any good. Any case would have to hinge upon her testimony, and if she is unwilling to give it, then there's no point in dragging everyone through the process. I'm going to try to convince her to do so, but ideological reasons aside, it has to be her decision. This bothers me on several grounds: 1. you are giving up because you don't think you can force her to testify, and 2. "ideological reasons aside, it has to be her decision", and 3. this is still about you. It is precisely because of "ideological reasons" that it must be her decision. quote: That, and the slim but nonzero chance that she may be lying. And no chance of you being in error? quote: Moreover, your reproaches have had their intended effect. It is indeed her life to lead, so if she eventually decides that this is the relationship she wants, I should stay out. That said, given her behavior last night, I highly doubt that that's what she's going to choose. The more likely situation is that she attempts to avoid this guy, and fails. He continues pursuiing her, and she remains in danger, but because she is unwilling to involve the authorities, he continues to be a source of anguish for her. In that situation, what would you do? Wouldn't that depend upon what she is asking me to do?

Aswad -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 12:36:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi It places you smack square into the same abusive, aggressive, non-consensual pattern of actions that you attribute to the dominant male in question. Projection is nothing new under the sun. By ourselves, we know/judge others, and all of that. Health, al-Aswad.

SirMIkeSD -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 12:43:16 PM)
Theophrastus, You have the right to be concerned for her. You do not have the right to involve any outside authorities unless you are there witnessing abuse, or have her concerance on it and request for help. You have the right to talk to her about it, of course she may tell you it's none of your concern. I have to ask, what if we are at a play party and don't like the way I beat or talk to my boy but he is fine with it. Are you going to run to the DM? Is it your concern NO. As adults we have to take responsibility for ourselfs, that includes subs and slave as well as everyone else. Mike

iammachine -> RE: A friend of mine may be in danger. What do I do? (9/18/2007 1:26:55 PM)
I am of the opinion that she is a big girl and can take care of herself. From your description, she may be something of a wilting violet and may have difficulty asserting herself. She's also may be feeling guilty about submissive feelings that she has, and has trouble differentiating submission from violation or abuse. The guy that she is seeing seems to me like he may be a little overbearing, but nothing that you have described screams "Danger! Will Robinson!" to me. Submissive, wilting violet or no, if the chick really wants to get away from the guy, she'll tell him to take a hike. From what I can tell, she hasn't done that. She's feeling squirly about his advances, but she hasn't really done anything to stop them. Your anecdote about closing the dorm door could go either way. That could be an intimidation tactic, or it could be his way of (albeit rather abrasively) showing her that she really doesn't have anything to be afraid of. The only way to get over a fear is to face it, allow yourself to feel uncomfortable, and to see for yourself that the world will not end because of it. Did anything bad happen on that occasion, or is she just carrying uneasy feelings? If I'm on pretty friendly terms with someone, a lack of a no in regards to, say, entering a dorm or apartment constitutes as consent to me. It may have freaked her out, but having a "forced" 2-minute-long kiss seems pretty hot to me. Did she resist it? Did she try to stop him? Did she say no? She seems pretty fragile by your description. She may be freaked out that he "took advantage" of her inability to assert herself, or she may be freaked out that she liked it. It could go either way. In the end, she's a big girl and she can take care of herself. It is her responsiblity to do what is in her best interest and to be responsible for her own wellbeing and make her own decisions. From what I can gather, you seem to be enabling her insecurity. I think the best thing you can do, is just exist. Be a friend, listen to her, be supportive and shut up. Just let her say what she needs to say, and help her come to her own decisions - not your decisions about what you think is in her best interest, but her own.

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