RE: Heritage or Hate? (Full Version)

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Alumbrado -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 8:15:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Maybe he'll get over about the time you get over speaking on behalf of everyone else in the world, other than BlaakMaan.




Oooops... forgot to wink... ;)


Z.

PS: Winking makes it ok to be rude, right?



Hell, around here, winking doesn't even make it OK to be right.  [:D]

Saaaaay.... You're not from around here, are you?[>:]




Blaakmaan -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 8:25:46 AM)

Really?

You live in Louisiana?

You saw what happened during Hurricane Katrina?  Lots and lots and lots of white people in the water, weren't there?  And, you really must commend the federal government on moving Heaven and Earth to get relief to the few black people that were in need.

Or did you miss that?  You were watching another channel?

You at least HEARD OF what happened in Jena, LA?

Those white students sure were persecuted, weren't they?  How do they bear it?

And that's just Louisiana in the past couple of years...

Whiteness is a liability?  In the United States of America?  In 2007???

That would be funny, if you didn't appear to be so serious...

And, believe it or not, you are part of a waning generation, unless your time machine is running backwards.  Just ask my granddaughter.

At least my generation knows fact from fiction!




Blaakmaan -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 8:30:28 AM)

So, let me get this right...

The people who object to the Confederate flag are the demagogues?

And the people who fly it, or stand beneath it and say things like "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever" are the innocents whose motives are being wrongfully impugned?

Now, what can I possibly say to that???




LadyEllen -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:02:50 AM)

You know, I cant get over the confusion I feel that an idea such as
"everyone who feels an affinity for this/that symbol/flag/whatever, is a racist piece of shit"
can be held to be true, whilst an idea such as
"all women long to serve men" or
"all men are inferior to the supreme female sex"
is immediately refuted by all and sundry - even those for whom such latter ideas are attractive fantasies.

Lesson number 1 on CM Forums surely has to be that all-encompassing, sweeping generalisations are generally untrue and therefore generally worthless when making a point or passing a comment. How is it that this only applies to certain all-encompassing, sweeping generalisations I fail to understand. That is, I do understand but...... well, you know?

E




Alumbrado -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:07:05 AM)

quote:

"everyone who feels an affinity for this/that symbol/flag/whatever, is a racist piece of shit"


Could you provide a link to the place where that quoted text was copied from? Because I sure don't remember it being said here.




LadyEllen -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:26:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

"everyone who feels an affinity for this/that symbol/flag/whatever, is a racist piece of shit"


Could you provide a link to the place where that quoted text was copied from? Because I sure don't remember it being said here.


I dont recall saying I copied it from anywhere or indeed that it had been said in those exact words in this thread? It is more a summary of my comprehension of the point being made by some here, summarised for the purpose of my post; that is to indicate the rather strange inconsistency in approach in this instance.

E




Pulpsmack -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:28:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Really?

You live in Louisiana?

You saw what happened during Hurricane Katrina?  Lots and lots and lots of white people in the water, weren't there?  And, you really must commend the federal government on moving Heaven and Earth to get relief to the few black people that were in need.



What happened during hurricane Katrina (barring exceptional circumstances, like infirmed and elderly in homes) was a bunch of complacent people who grew weary of evacuating over false alarms, making the decision to put their lives at risk by wagering this was another such occurance. They put themselves in harm's way, then cried in outrage that the government wasn't there to get them out of the fix they were in. Barring those who had no possible way out (which is a slim minority) I have zero sympathy for the outraged idiots who made a bad decision then blamed the government for not bailing them out of their predicament.


As for what I saw with my own eyes regarding the hurricane, you won't want to hear it... It doesn't bode well for your argument at all.

quote:

You at least HEARD OF what happened in Jena, LA?

Those white students sure were persecuted, weren't they?  How do they bear it?

And that's just Louisiana in the past couple of years...



There is a complete thread on the topic where I suggest you address that issue.


quote:

Whiteness is a liability?  In the United States of America?  In 2007???

That would be funny, if you didn't appear to be so serious...


And, believe it or not, you are part of a waning generation, unless your time machine is running backwards.  Just ask my granddaughter.

At least my generation knows fact from fiction!




I
am glad you recognize the subject as lacking in humor, and I am deadly serious.

All this from a man approaching retirement age. Your "facts" of yesterday are rapidly becoming "fiction" today, and it is clear you are out of touch with reality with respect to certain pertinent issues. Do you know anything about higher learning or the entry side of the professional job market today? I have witnessed first hand the amount of discrimination that happens at the universities, admitting under qualified minorities (because the qualified ones have been recruited to top schools) at the expense of cutting qualified majorities. I am even aware of a clandestine "leap program" available only for under qualified minorities that gives unfair advantages to help these underperformers hack the competitive environment they are in amidst their qualified colleagues.  The job market is the same in the professional market as well. If you have a shred of competency and a minority status, you are marketable, whereas the majority status job seekers must have something more to remain marketable in the competitive market. Title VII provides minorities with astounding leverage in the workplace and the university, but the courts have read that an unprecedented burden of proof will be necessary to prove such discrimination with the majority race.

Moreover, minority groups have license to unify and represent their own diverse interests without scrutiny. Black student associations, black entertainment network, black media, etc etc. Try that as a majority and you are a exclusionary racist. Sorry, the "One size fits all institution" where we are a majority no longer fits the bill, because it no longer represents "our diversity interests". Imagine a White Al Sharpton, oh that's right... his name was David Duke. Same ignorant race-baiting BS, only one is called out for what he is whereas the other maintains some shred of legitimacy. Relevance? The overarching theme is that one group has inherited some "sins of the fathers" class guilt and is expected to comport with strict adherence to the laws of PC and tolerance, whereas the other is free to flit about the issue using race when and if necessary.

I hope you are right that I am part of a waning generation, because my life is in many respects the polar opposite of your life experience. I grew up asking my father why there was a bat in the front seat of his car and was led to understand that there were a lot of "angry people" downtown who were upset about things and they wanted to take it out on us. I grew up knowing a ritual known as "cracker day" in public schools, a day in which you can figure for on your own  and what happened to whom by whom. I grew up applying to schools knowing that performance was not the only factor, and that the color of skin brings advantage (only the opposite of what you know). I grew up with some "war guilt clause" in the wake of the PC movement that I was somehow collectively responsible for the state of affairs today. I have even had the escalation of such tension climax in gunfire. So my martyr friend, your downtrodden plight cuts no ice with me. I've been through the shit myself, and I would be happy to "measure dicks" on the subject of personally experienced racial injustice elsewhere if you really want to open that can of worms. Your forefather's story is your HISTORY, not YOUR story, and that collective outrage that has been cashed in over and over has run thin these days.




domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:36:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Really?

You live in Louisiana?

You saw what happened during Hurricane Katrina?  Lots and lots and lots of white people in the water, weren't there?  And, you really must commend the federal government on moving Heaven and Earth to get relief to the few black people that were in need.



What happened during hurricane Katrina (barring exceptional circumstances, like infirmed and elderly in homes) was a bunch of complacent people who grew weary of evacuating over false alarms, making the decision to put their lives at risk by wagering this was another such occurance. They put themselves in harm's way, then cried in outrage that the government wasn't there to get them out of the fix they were in. Barring those who had no possible way out (which is a slim minority) I have zero sympathy for the outraged idiots who made a bad decision then blamed the government for not bailing them out of their predicament.


As for what I saw with my own eyes regarding the hurricane, you won't want to hear it... It doesn't bode well for your argument at all.

quote:

You at least HEARD OF what happened in Jena, LA?

Those white students sure were persecuted, weren't they?  How do they bear it?

And that's just Louisiana in the past couple of years...







quote:

Whiteness is a liability?  In the United States of America?  In 2007???

That would be funny, if you didn't appear to be so serious...


And, believe it or not, you are part of a waning generation, unless your time machine is running backwards.  Just ask my granddaughter.

At least my generation knows fact from fiction!




I am glad you recognize the subject as lacking in humor, and I am deadly serious.

All this from a man approaching retirement age. Your "facts" of yesterday are rapidly becoming "fiction" today, and it is clear you are out of touch with reality with respect to certain pertinent issues. Do you know anything about higher learning or the entry side of the professional job market today? I have witnessed first hand the amount of discrimination that happens at the universities, admitting underqualified minorities (because the qualified ones have been recruited to top schools) at the expense of cutting qualified majorities. I am even aware of a clandestine "leap program" available only for underqualified minorities that gives unfair advantages to help these underperformers hack the competitive environment they are in amidst their qualified colleagues.  The job market is the same in the professional market as well. If you have a shred of competancy and a minority status, you are marketable, whereas the majority status job seekers must have something more to remain marketable in the competitive market. Title VII provides minorities with astounding leverage in the workplace and the university, but the courts have read that an unprecidented burden of proof will be necessary to prove such discrimination with the majority race.

Moreover, minority groups have license to unify and represent their own diverse interests without scrutiny. Black student associations, black entertainment network, black media, etc etc. Try that as a majority and you are a exclusionary racist. Sorry, the "One size fits all institution" where we are a majority no longer fits the bill, because it no longer represents "our diversity interests". Imagine a White Al Sharpton, oh that's right... his name was David Duke. Same ignorant race-baiting BS, only one is called out for what he is whereas the other maintians some shred of legitimacy. Relevence? The overarching theme is that one group has inherited some "sins of the fathers" class guilt and is expected to comport with strict adherance to the laws of PC and tolerance, whereas the other is free to flit about the issue using race when and if necessary.

I hope you are right that I am part of a waning generation, because I am in many respects the polar opposite of you. I grew up asking my father why there was a bat in the front seat of his car and was led to understand that there were a lot of "angry people" downtown who were upset about things and they wanted to take it out on us. I grew up knowing a ritual known as "cracker day" in public schools, a day in which you can figure for on your own  and what happened to whom by whom. I grew up applying to schools knowing that performance was not the only factor, and that the color of skin brings advantage (only the opposite of what you know). I grew up with some "war guilt clause" in the wake of the PC movement that I was somehow collectively responsible for the state of affairs today. I have even had the escalation of such tension climax in gunfire. So my martyr friend, your downtrodden plight cuts no ice with me. I've been through the shit myself, and I would be happy to "measure dicks" on the subject of personally experienced racial injustice elsewhere if you really want to open that can of worms. Your forefather's story is your HISTORY, not YOUR story, and that collective outrage that has been cashed in over and over has run thin these days.


Waaaaah! ....Waaaaaaah! Waaaaaaah!  The minorities are hurting whitey...Get over it. 




Alumbrado -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:37:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

"everyone who feels an affinity for this/that symbol/flag/whatever, is a racist piece of shit"


Could you provide a link to the place where that quoted text was copied from? Because I sure don't remember it being said here.



I dont recall saying I copied it from anywhere or indeed that it had been said in those exact words in this thread? It is more a summary of my comprehension of the point being made by some here, summarised for the purpose of my post; that is to indicate the rather strange inconsistency in approach in this instance.

E


I still don't recall finding that sentiment widely expressed in this thread... 




camille65 -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:38:26 AM)

I picked up on the same feeling that LE did.




Alumbrado -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:40:45 AM)

Then one of you should be able to provide a link to where it was explicitly stated, or cleary implied.

Surely no one is projecting that feeling onto someone else's words saying something entirely different are they?




Pulpsmack -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:43:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Waaaaah! ....Waaaaaaah! Waaaaaaah!  The minorities are hurting whitey...Get over it. 


My indignation and contempt is something I use to deflate the nonsensical outrage I still hear these days, and little more. I think you have it pegged though. I will get over title VII abuses, BET, the N-word double standard, dismissal of black on white crime, while the reverse is spotlighted.etc etc. I will even throw in the ugly treatment by the Romans, the invading Huns, the external parties of the Hundred Years War, and even the French for 200 years of conflict and tension exchanged with my forefathers.

Now everybody else can get over great grandpappy's terrible plight, Jim Crow, LAPD, Michael Richards, etc etc.




Alumbrado -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:47:36 AM)

BET kept you from voting by unfairly applying poll taxes and literacy tests?  No wonder you are so upset.[sm=biggrin.gif]




Pulpsmack -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:51:15 AM)

I prefer the term "sickatated", thank you.

Anybody here experience a poll tax or a literacy test to vote?




camille65 -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 9:52:58 AM)

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/09/21/car.nooses/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

It just keeps going and worsening. Ugh.




domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 10:04:46 AM)

My grandDomi was a tremendous man....Funny, you talk about barriers being arbitrarily constructed that favor minorities but then you list the LAPD for instance which has been proven to be a racist organization that has been working in present day america....How many times have you been pulled over for DWW?  Education is far from equal in this country today, and often is of a much lesser quality in poorer areas which demographically speaking tend to adversely affect minorities.

If you look at the realities of what a boon it is to simply slide out of the womb the right color....It can't be denied even in the world of "today"...Should you spend all of your time lamenting over the obvious inequalities?...Probably not a wise approach...But to at least acknowledge that they are a continuing problem and are still present today might help these problems to vanish somewhere down the line.




Alumbrado -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 10:05:42 AM)

quote:

Anybody here experience a poll tax or a literacy test to vote?


Nobody is questioning your skill at stringing together red herrings as fast as possible to avoid the questions from pages back. 

Once more, this isn't about Civil War re-enactors, history texts, slavery throughout the centuries, or 'Heritage'

Nor is there a claim on the table that everyone displaying a rebel flag is a violent racist.

Moral relativism that lesser degrees of bad behavior from minorities washes the slate clean for those who look down on them, is a non-starter.

And argumentem ad hominem, such as requiring one to have been the victim of a recent lynching or poll tax in order to find offense, is a well known fallacy.  The fact that people were targeted for such things because of their skin color within our lifetimes,is enough to dismiss the 'just get over it' tap-dance.


So, once more into the avoidance dear friends....

If a school has a right to preserve the learning environment free of disruption, by refusing to condone cross burnings, noose drapings, Klan robe wearings, 'Kill Whitey' speeches, and Swastikas on T-shirts, why is the symbol of David Duke and Jerry Springer guests exempt?

Oh, yeah, because 'nobodies' are offended...right?[8|]




domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 10:06:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/09/21/car.nooses/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

It just keeps going and worsening. Ugh.


It's quite touching...Domiguy dabs away a tear...For the poor oppressed white folks of this country.




camille65 -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 10:08:31 AM)

Awww duz you need a hankie?




seeksfemslave -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/21/2007 10:58:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan
So, let me get this right...
The people who object to the Confederate flag are the demagogues?
And the people who fly it, or stand beneath it and say things like "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever" are the innocents whose motives are being wrongfully impugned?
Now, what can I possibly say to that???

Blaakmaan: even tho' I dont basically agree with your arguments I can see where you are coming from, but the last 2 or so posts show you  losing the plot.
The one where you list atrocities that are still ongoing or happened in living memory is just silly.
The above response to me bears no relation to what I said. No matter.

I am beginning to think you may, repeat may, spend time with apologetic white PC liberals. Since you are not getting a PC response  here you are beginning to lash out a bit.




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