RE: Heritage or Hate?

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slaveluci -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 7:58:12 PM)
I'm not going to argue round and round about this because it's obvious one can't debate civilly with a bigot. By that, do I mean the ones who wear the rebel flag shirts? Nope. The ones who assume that everyone who does wear one is stupid, poor white trash. It is absolutely mind-boggling to me that the same people who wish to show how very enlightened, intellectual and "non-racist" they are are the exact same people who can't discuss an issue like this without dismissing a whole group as trash. To them, it's so horrible to wear a flag that symbolizes (to them) racism, ignorance, bigotry and hatred. So, to show how against all those awful things they are, they engage in it themselves by simply changing the color of the "trash" to white. It's horrible to appear in any way racist unless it's against all the poor white "trash" and then it's ok. I say give me a fuckin' break. If you honestly think you're snobbery against such so-called racist rednecks is ANY better than any white person's negative feelings toward other groups, you're delusional. If you ever find yourself using the word "trash" to describe an entire group of people, here's a reality check. YOU are a bigot too...................luci

Termyn8or -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 7:59:58 PM)
Oh boy. Sit down. Satyr, one of these days we will have to sit down for a beer or something. So many points have been raised at this point I almost don't know where to start. So I will start with something else. Any White supremacists, hear this. Black peoples' ancestors did not abandon their original country, they were taken by force. You'll find very few Euro-Americans or anyone else who can say that. White people wanted to be here because conditions in their homeland became untenable. Slavery was not the main issue in the civil war, in fact some southern states had already aboished it, Florida at the very least. But there were more. They were in fact "federalizing" in the north and expected the states to just go along with it. After the civil war, certain things happened, first of all an amendment to the national Constitution was ratified, the civil war was perfect to get rid of this problem. This was called the Titles Of Nobility Act. There was also what was called the Tariff Of The Abominations. This was tantamount to the tea tax which resulted in the Boston Tea Party. No civilized country allows slavery, and states were moving towards abolition already, while a factor, it was not at the top of the list by any means. All Black people should remember the name Roger B. Taney. He was the fourth secretary of the treasury, who put his signature on a document that led this country into a world of debt instead of wealth. His predecessors refused to do so. The administration rewarded him with a seat on the supreme court. From there he rendered the Dred Scott decision. Definitely an elitist in my opinion. But it is rarely told how he got there, he pretty much destroyed our economy back then. That lifetime job was a perk. Well he certainly earned it. Wikipedia does not mention his days in the treasury. Go figure. And when you take a close look at what happened after the civil war, you might just think the wrong side won. The reconstruction was hell on Earth. That spawned the KKK, they were into hanging judges who ruled against property holders. It really wasn't all racist in the beginning. But people fuck everything up and now the KKK are a bunch of clowns as far as I am concerned. The KKK can stay as far away as possible as far as I am concerned. I am White and I have my pride, we have done quite a bit on this fucking planet and if you can't see that I don't know what to tell you. But you have to give credit where credit is due. Other races have done many things. I would laud these with the same zeal. But not tonight. I don't want to talk about any races' accomplishments, or their developmental level. The thing is that everybody deserves equal treatment from YOU and ME. That is all. People are not equal even in the same race, that is not what equality means. Is the White cherry girl superior to the Black doctor ? You'd have to be fucking nuts to think so. But what I say, is that going in, there is no reason to treat anyone differently based on race. Equality means that we can expect the same treatment from others, and in law. This is all perverted now but I had nothing to do with it. But the root of the word really means NOT quality. That is true. The word gets used how we use it, but the E prefix does indeed denote NOT. None of us are equal unless we are all the same. If I am equal to the crackhead on the streetcorner, why should I do anything ? I have little respect for adults who have squandered their life. Kids are where it's at. Kids are inquisitive and very attentive if you are giving them what they ask for. Now do you think one such as I would give a shit about the color of their skin ? Fuck no. Those who are superior, if I may use the term, owe others whatever help they can give, to help the inferior grow and develop. And this has nothing to do with anything else. Then they won't be inferior. Look, other people helped us develop our potential, it's like a pay forward system. You got it, and if you give it away you do not lose it. DO IT. Pay forward, to your kids, your friends' kids, all of it. And to anyone who is receptive. We owe this. Yes, everyone here owes a piece of themself to humanity. I have given mine several times. How about you ? T

domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 8:08:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: feastie I live in a town where I have seen those hoods and crosses with my own two eyes, not so many years ago. A town that until recently, was all white. We're no longer all white. We are diverse. And we have let go of those symbols. We haven't seen them in years. Is it utopia? No, it's not. Yes, there are plenty of symbols, numbers and letters included, as well as the cross and the star of david which still have strong feelings attached to them. Some always will, as there are exceptions to every rule. But by carrying your torch, you're proliferating bias. You're giving it a crutch so it can continue. Each person is directly responsible for his own actions and reactions and even more, passing those forward. Make a choice that removes you and yours from the equation. Pay THAT forward. If it's to end, you have to choose to end it and you have to take the action to end it. If you continue to wallow in what was instead of what could be, then YOU are directly responsible for the continuation of hate. Not the other guy, not the white guy. You. Feastie, why did the guys wearing the hoods and the crosses disappear? Was it because those symbols were just let go? Or was it because people objected to those symbols being displayed? I find this argument to be filled with bullshit....Feastie, do you simply laugh as people overseas burn the U.S. Flag...Does the U.S. flag not mean anything to you? So if you were Jewish ...A swastika would carry the same weight as the sign for a 7-11? It is very simple for anyone to say "get over it." until you can find something that hits a chord within yourself...Then "get over it" doesn't seem to make much sense or hold much water. I find your post to lack compassion for those who have suffered...And to simply give a pass to those who still cling to relics from the past that are mired in the blood of the oppressed.

MissSCD -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 8:14:52 PM)
I feel very sory for a person who openly admits they are a racist. What a way to have to get attention. We wear shoes down here, and hang out with each other. It is getting better for the first time in a long time. Why slap it around even more? Regards, MissSCD Just in case you did not realize this, the South lost.

Zensee -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 8:14:54 PM)
That Jews could be Nazis or blacks in the south, slave owners, does not make the Nazis or slavery OK. It merely highlights the savagery of a belief system which can force people to so totally dehumanise others. The Confederate Flag is not just a symbol of state’s rights. (Right to do what? Enslave others? Marginalise them? Own them? Murder them without remorse? – get a grip please!) There are some things that are too important to be left to the States (or even countries) to decide and basic human rights is one of them. A flag created to deny those rights should not be a source of pride for decent folk and it should not be allowed as a fashion statement by kids in public school. The Swastika is an ancient and venerable symbol, perverted to an evil cause. It deserves to be restored to its former place. This artist, Manwoman, http://www.manwoman.net/ has been on task for years. The rebel rag was not conceived in light. The only light it deserves is from a Zippo. Z.

domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 8:25:53 PM)
The question was "is the rebel flag offensive?" Obviously some people find it to be offensive...I do as well...Outside of school can you wear your rebel flag shirt? You bet. Can you tack it up in the back window of your pickup...Absoloutely...I'll even defend your right to do so. When I see you with your rebel shirt or pickup truck....I will simply think that you are an asshole. Someone not worth my time. And yes... The thought of that person being perceived as a redneck or white trash is certainly a possibility....It's your choice. Do as you please. I guess it comes down to what value you place on others as well as yourself.

slaveluci -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 8:57:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy When I see you with your rebel shirt or pickup truck....I will simply think that you are an asshole. Someone not worth my time Quite a huge assumption based on a few square inches of fabric. quote: And yes... The thought of that person being perceived as a redneck or white trash is certainly a possibility As I mentioned above, how is your grouping of a whole portion of the population as "trash" any less bigoted and hateful than a white person looking at all other racial groups as somehow bad or defective? Anytime you hang a label (let alone a hateful one like "trash") on an entire group of people based solely on something they are wearing no less, that's no less ignorant than judging an entire racial group hatefully. quote: ....It's your choice. Do as you please. I guess it comes down to what value you place on others as well as yourself. I would agree. Calling anyone "trash" shows that you place no value on them. Grouping a whole group of "poor" and "white" folks as such "trash" shows racism, bigotry, and hatred. Some people apparently show their ignorance and hate by wearing a shirt that offends others. And then others show it by judging and despising them for no other reason than wearing said shirt. Guess it all comes down to how people choose to display their ignorance and loathing for groups they don't like............luci

ChicagoSwitchMal -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:09:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan OK, ChicagoSwitchMal. Let's take what you said as a given. If Lincoln hadn't won the election of 1860, sparking southern fears that slavery would be contained or even abolished, would the southern states have attempted to seceed because of "the exploitation of southern resources by the north"? I think not. And I don't know of any reputable historian who thinks so, either. And, anyway, whatever the truth of your point may be, the Confederate flag certainly doesn't stand for resistance to the exploitation of southern resources by the north, does it? Don't take what I said as a given. Actually DO the google searches I suggested and then talk to me. For 40 years before Lincoln's election there was talk about disunion. But it was about tariffs that taxed imported goods the south needed while similar taxes on the industrial north were lax or absent. Wouldn't you fight being singled out like that? It was about Federal laws coming out that (arguably) violated state autonomy. It was about a fundimental disagreement of the interpretation of the constitution. But yes you are right. The slavery thing was the tipping point. But alot lead up to it. To suggest that southerners were all happy and dandy til Lincoln stopped by is just stupid. Also I'm not sure how many 'reputable historians' you know but please provide us readers with links so we can see your references. Lastly your closing statement is of particular interest.... "And, anyway, whatever the truth of your point may be," (because you didn't actually search it, and dismiss the possiblity that I have a point) .."the Confederate flag certainly doesn't stand for resistance to the exploitation of southern resources by the north, does it?"... That's the part you dont get. Yeah, it does.That's the history that makes it the "rebel flag".

ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:10:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci I'm not going to argue round and round about this because it's obvious one can't debate civilly with a bigot. By that, do I mean the ones who wear the rebel flag shirts? Nope. The ones who assume that everyone who does wear one is stupid, poor white trash. It is absolutely mind-boggling to me that the same people who wish to show how very enlightened, intellectual and "non-racist" they are are the exact same people who can't discuss an issue like this without dismissing a whole group as trash. To them, it's so horrible to wear a flag that symbolizes (to them) racism, ignorance, bigotry and hatred. So, to show how against all those awful things they are, they engage in it themselves by simply changing the color of the "trash" to white. It's horrible to appear in any way racist unless it's against all the poor white "trash" and then it's ok. I say give me a fuckin' break. If you honestly think you're snobbery against such so-called racist rednecks is ANY better than any white person's negative feelings toward other groups, you're delusional. If you ever find yourself using the word "trash" to describe an entire group of people, here's a reality check. YOU are a bigot too...................luci Luci, you're confused. There's lots of snobbery against southern people, rural people, and what have you. Much of it is downright sterotypical, misinformed, and biggoted. And there's no excuse for that. But the symbols you wear are your choice. People consider confederate-flag bearing individuals trashy because they choose to be trashy. Personally I think its these trashy individuals who make the South in general such an easy target for the rest of the country to laugh at, but that may just be me... When you wear the confederate flag you're trashy because you calling out for attention but not caring if you offend others. You want to be noticed, but you don't care whether or not you're liked. You're basically bullying attention out of people. You're saying you've given up trying not to offend people in the quest to satisfy your ego and image.

Alumbrado -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:15:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Couldn't you just get a bottle of RC Cola with some peanuts in it and use that as a hood ornament to show your connection to the South? [:D] dammit everyone knows it is an rc cola and a moonpie...i bet yer a dang yankee huh? I'll bet you don't have a clue as to how to get a Moonpie inside of any soda bottle. [:D]

feastie -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:32:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: feastie I live in a town where I have seen those hoods and crosses with my own two eyes, not so many years ago. A town that until recently, was all white. We're no longer all white. We are diverse. And we have let go of those symbols. We haven't seen them in years. Is it utopia? No, it's not. Yes, there are plenty of symbols, numbers and letters included, as well as the cross and the star of david which still have strong feelings attached to them. Some always will, as there are exceptions to every rule. But by carrying your torch, you're proliferating bias. You're giving it a crutch so it can continue. Each person is directly responsible for his own actions and reactions and even more, passing those forward. Make a choice that removes you and yours from the equation. Pay THAT forward. If it's to end, you have to choose to end it and you have to take the action to end it. If you continue to wallow in what was instead of what could be, then YOU are directly responsible for the continuation of hate. Not the other guy, not the white guy. You. Feastie, why did the guys wearing the hoods and the crosses disappear? Was it because those symbols were just let go? Or was it because people objected to those symbols being displayed? People didn't object. They went quietly away. I find this argument to be filled with bullshit....Feastie, do you simply laugh as people overseas burn the U.S. Flag...Does the U.S. flag not mean anything to you? The U.S. Flag is a symbol of my country, but it is not my country. You wanna burn my flag? Burn my flag. You have every right to do so, even if you're not from my country. Am I a proud American? You betcha! But you can't hurt me by burning the flag of my country unless I let you and I won't let you. I refuse to give you that power over me. So if you were Jewish ...A swastika would carry the same weight as the sign for a 7-11? How do you know that I am not Jewish or of Jewish descent? My great-grandparents came to America from Poland before the war. It's possible they were getting while the getting was good. I've never said that the atrocities of the Holocaust are irrelevant or were not staggeringly horrible. They definitely were. No, I wouldn't wear a swastika and I'd certainly not wear it where it would hurt anyone. Shoe being on the other foot, I'd not give the person that did wear it the power to hurt me or piss me off or whatever. It is very simple for anyone to say "get over it." until you can find something that hits a chord within yourself...Then "get over it" doesn't seem to make much sense or hold much water. Of course, it's human nature. But that doesn't mean we, as humans, shouldn't make every attempt to grow past that. Is it really worth carrying around hate in your heart? I find your post to lack compassion for those who have suffered...And to simply give a pass to those who still cling to relics from the past that are mired in the blood of the oppressed. My post doesn't lack compassion for anyone who has suffered at all. What my post does say, is to be better and be stronger and find it within yourself not to pass hate along. That includes those that would use a symbol to hurt someone else or to call attention to themselves by an act of sensationalism. And, honestly, if people would let it go, it would no longer be an attractive means of sensationalism for others.

Sinergy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:43:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan the confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the institution of slavery. The confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the Constitutionally guaranteed power of the individual state control over centralized federal control. Slavery was not ended until 2 years into the war, only in the states in rebellion, and only because France and England refused to assist Lincoln in his war until he outlawed slavery. Try to keep the facts straight about the war of secession in the United States. Slavery in the United States was outlawed after the war. Sinergy

domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:44:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy When I see you with your rebel shirt or pickup truck....I will simply think that you are an asshole. Someone not worth my time Quite a huge assumption based on a few square inches of fabric. quote: And yes... The thought of that person being perceived as a redneck or white trash is certainly a possibility As I mentioned above, how is your grouping of a whole portion of the population as "trash" any less bigoted and hateful than a white person looking at all other racial groups as somehow bad or defective? Anytime you hang a label (let alone a hateful one like "trash") on an entire group of people based solely on something they are wearing no less, that's no less ignorant than judging an entire racial group hatefully. quote: ....It's your choice. Do as you please. I guess it comes down to what value you place on others as well as yourself. I would agree. Calling anyone "trash" shows that you place no value on them. Grouping a whole group of "poor" and "white" folks as such "trash" shows racism, bigotry, and hatred. Some people apparently show their ignorance and hate by wearing a shirt that offends others. And then others show it by judging and despising them for no other reason than wearing said shirt. Guess it all comes down to how people choose to display their ignorance and loathing for groups they don't like............luci No it is not an assumption...People out here have already told you that they find it to be offensive and they have given their reasons. Based upon what that few inches of fabric symbolizes to them....A swastika does not have to be "large" for some people to have a reaction to it. As far as grouping some people as "rednecks" or "white trash" would be based upon the fact that they understand that some people will be offended by the wearing or displaying of the confederate flag....But they care not....I have the ability to judge them on that merit anyways I see fit. What's so hard to understand about that? Your lack of an ability to stay within the confines of an argument without making broad sweeping generalizations has always amused me....I said people who choose to wear the flag or promote it run the risks of being viewed as rednecks or white trash...They might not care how I feel...They probably will never know. I am judging only those people who partake in a certain activity...If this is a "whole group" of the population who chooses to act in this manner...then let me make it clear to you...I think they are assholes....And yeah the thought of them being rednecks or white trash might just cross my mind....Now whether I thought the were "poor" would depend on the model and year and possibly the upkeep on the truck in question....The shirt is much harder to judge...Probably some cheap tshirt....Is it 100% cotton or is it a blend? Does the kid wear a mullet....Does he say "ain't" and use double negatives?...Is he the offspring of 1st cousins? Does he live in a trailer? To difficult to ascertain all of that data from one tshirt. quote: slaveluci Anytime you hang a label (let alone a hateful one like "trash") on an entire group of people based solely on something they are wearing no less, that's no less ignorant than judging an entire racial group hatefully. This is probably one of the lesser comments I have ever seen posted...So I see someone wearing "the lovely confederate flag" I have a choice....Ok. this person could either care less that many will be offended by wearing such a shirt, is actually glad they will be offended, or is so stupid that the thought never even crossed their mind......I am judging this person specifically for what they are wearing and yeah they are either some sort of callous piece of shit or they are so fucking stupid that they are not worth my time. Now, If they were wearing a Jeff Gordon tshirt I would figure they still had a lil' redneck thang going on....But not necessarily trash...Alot of pretty affluent people for some reason get a kick out of NASCAR....How I weep for the future. Now because some white folks choose to garnish the rebel flag does not reflect poorly on all white folks....Is that too much for you to handle? I could type it slower or larger if that would help.

Sinergy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:46:15 PM)
Please do not attack me personally, I think slavery is abhorrent and I would be the first to throw things at some cretin wearing a Confederate flag as being an ignorant bigoted racist. However, I am also a historian and prefer we all keep our facts straight. Sinergy

ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:46:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Satyr6406 quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: Satyr6406 So, when a black person calls me "white boy" or says: "of course you're a racist. Look at the color of your skin!" What then? Should I NOT be offended? BULLSHIT!!! If it is not right for me to treat people a certain way, based upon the color of their skin (and it isn't) then, it shouldn't be right for them to do the same thing. Case closed. Peace and comfort, Michael How often does this really happen? I have never had anyone who was black ever refer to me as "whiteboy"....Or say anything like..."Look at the color of your skin, of course you are a rascist."....Maybe they were jealous because you are so dreamy?...Did you ever take that into consideration? Actually, being the only "white" guy for a couple of block, it happens quite often. My neighbors think it's cute, when they say: "Nah, he's one of the good white boys." Like that's a fucking compliment. I'm not saying it ruins my life. I am saying that it a small thing and I recognize it as such so, why is a small thing so much of an issue to other people? I repeat: because we are becoming a society of "professional victims" and whoever presents themselves as the most aggrieved appears to get to have their say. To take this kind of back to the original point: The "Civil" (huh? What?) War was actually about states' rights (one of them being slavery). It was a war against the federalization of our country. Now, I don't support slavery, in ANY form but, I have flown the "Stars and Bars" (along with the original, thirteen-starred flag of the United States) as a way of saying that I support the attempt to stop the federalization. So, I guess since it's a symbol, it depends on what it symbolizes to different people. Rap "music" is offensive to me. It paints "white" people and "police officers" in a horrible way and suggests that we are beneath contempt and worthy of death on site ["sight", even. That' what happens when you work with webSITES, all day] (Thank you, Ice-T, you "Cop Killa", you!). I think we should put an end to rap music. Ridiculous. Ain't it? Peace and comfort, Michael - Michael, all through the immigration/national language threads, I've kept my peice. I didn't want to blow your spot. But I live in New Brunswick too, dammit, and I'm sick of holding my tounge. Michael is probably right, he's probably the only white person living in blocks around his house, if he's in the right nehborhood. Being stuck in traffic on 27 is being magically transported to Mexico. And how ironically named is our 'white castle'?! But, Michael, you're missing an important point. New Brunswick is racially and economically divided in the worst way. Just because what might be/seems like alot of blacks and mexicans here are also racist doesnt mean the confederate flag shouldn't be every bit as offensive to them as they are to you. I don't know if you have some notion that as a caucasian looking man you're supposed to be on the 'good' end of racism, but thats why racism, even by you're well-meaning nehbors sucks- racist people come from racist places, and this racism affects everybody. Just because the person is a minority doesnt make them any less likely to be racist. Oh and about your rap-music hijack: Drive around town with the windows down listening to Sage Francis or The Streets or some other lyrically decent, non-cop killing white rapper. Not Eminem-the point of the experiment is it has to be good enough to be worth listening to. The suburbanite Rutgers kids will look at you with hope and amazment-like you're some messiah uplifting their white race from years of the derogatory repression they've been force-fed in the clubs and on the radio. The Mexican and Black kids usually smirk, turn away, and try to hide the fact their facsinated and straining to hear more. It wont exactly end Jersey's segregation issues...but it's a hell of a lot more amuzing and stronger of a message than a 20th century invented "confederate" flag. Next time you hear a great beat and an English accent crawling down 27, look for the guy chugging his afternoon Redbull and do wave? -definatly Xak and not Madame G, who has better taste than this...

HotFaerieMama -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:50:49 PM)
as as white southern girl who grew up in a trailer went to schools that are diverse i was called every name in the book and i think it is stupid and wrong to make assumptions of someone based on what they wear or look like i do not judge at all untill i have met them and actually know them. i do wear shirts with dixie on them does that make me "white trash" or an "racist asshole" no it does not. if i wear a malcom x shirt would that mean that i am racist against my own kind no it dosen't making judgements based on what you see and not getting to know the person is really stupid. i would know i've had it done to me my whole life.

domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 9:59:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HotFaerieMama as as white southern girl who grew up in a trailer went to schools that are diverse i was called every name in the book and i think it is stupid and wrong to make assumptions of someone based on what they wear or look like i do not judge at all untill i have met them and actually know them. i do wear shirts with dixie on them does that make me "white trash" or an "racist asshole" no it does not. if i wear a malcom x shirt would that mean that i am racist against my own kind no it dosen't making judgements based on what you see and not getting to know the person is really stupid. i would know i've had it done to me my whole life. Well you should be grateful that now you know better....Because many people who see you wearing your cute lil' dixie shirt will think that you are an asshole or white trash and never take the time to speak to you....So they will never have the pleasure to find out just how "special" you truly are...Why even allow yourself to be put into that position? No need to thank me....Just trying to keep you all up on how people actually think in the real world.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 10:07:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan As I understood it, the question that began this little debate was, is the Confederate flag offensive? Not, is it offensive to you! Because it's not offensive to you, doesn't mean it's not offensive! Now, I'm not, on the other hand, saying it's offensive simply because it's offensive to me (which it is). I'm saying it's offensive to LOTS of people! Therefore, it's offensive. You may not be offended by anything! But, that doesn't mean that nothing is offensive! I didn't say it wasn't offensive to some people. Merely that it is wrong to prevent someone from doing something ONLY because someone finds it offensive.

domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 10:11:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Please do not attack me personally, I think slavery is abhorrent and I would be the first to throw things at some cretin wearing a Confederate flag as being an ignorant bigoted racist. However, I am also a historian and prefer we all keep our facts straight. Sinergy And sinergy is correct of course....Finally no sarcasm...But the confederate flag does seem to symbolize for many the persecution and the treatment of blacks in the South as second class citizens or worse.

domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 10:13:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan As I understood it, the question that began this little debate was, is the Confederate flag offensive? Not, is it offensive to you! Because it's not offensive to you, doesn't mean it's not offensive! Now, I'm not, on the other hand, saying it's offensive simply because it's offensive to me (which it is). I'm saying it's offensive to LOTS of people! Therefore, it's offensive. You may not be offended by anything! But, that doesn't mean that nothing is offensive! I didn't say it wasn't offensive to some people. Merely that it is wrong to prevent someone from doing something ONLY because someone finds it offensive. And of course, LA is correct as usual.

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