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Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 3:37:56 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi All

As many will know already, I’m TS. That’s pretty unusual in itself – we make up a tiny percentage of the population and a similarly small proportion of the membership here on CM. What’s even more unusual though, is that I’m active as a domme when it seems many in my position are more inclined towards the sub or slave role.

And when it comes to CDs, (TS is different, in case anyone doesn’t know by now after my many lectures!), its even more rare to find them as dommes; there are hundreds, if not thousands of submissive crossdressers it seems, but very few CD dommes.

Now, I get along fine with many natural female dommes, and with quite a few male subs too in terms of socialising and so on. When it comes to play or a relationship with male subs though, there is more of an issue – and I understand this totally; this is not a piss and moan thread! There are some for whom my past is not an issue, and some for whom its something they cant get out of their head – and that’s fine.

Its similar with natural female dommes – some just accept me as another woman, whilst some do not – and that’s fine too, whether its because they cant get my past out of their head, have had bad experiences in the past with someone allegedly TS, or for what I see as the less viable reason of simple prejudice. I’m big enough and ugly enough to know that not everyone will like me, just as I don’t like everyone else; all I can do is be myself and hope to be judged on that basis, realising that that isn’t going to happen every time.

But something bugs me, and I wondered what the views out there were. There are a few femdom societies in the UK, some of which I am a member. These societies organise parties and events and the like –which I am not permitted to attend, for the reason that I am not a natural born female. Its similar with OWK, to which I am not permitted entry for the same reason. Now I understand this to an extent, for the same reasons described above and in the light of the group nature of the activities it could become difficult if someone objected to me being there as a TS domme. Meanwhile of course, sub TS females and sub crossdressers are more than welcome.

But, assuming I brought my own (more than willing) sub/slave to such a party or event, and didn’t get into playing with other dommes’ subs/slaves, would it be a problem still I wondered? Turns out, that yes it still would be.

So, the question is I suppose, for those ladies who do tolerate / accept / welcome even, the likes of me (and the likes of crossdressers), is it purely on the understanding that we remain males regardless, and therefore should be submissive? Is it upsetting the whole femdom dynamic, for me as a TS female, to be a domme?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 4:19:53 AM   
CandyLover


Posts: 68
Joined: 6/5/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think it's completely on the (mistaken) understanding that you remain males regardless--it's on the (also mistaken) assumption that if the only difference between the dommes and their subs is some hormones and a good surgeon, then there's nothing really special about them.  To some dommes, their entire perspective of dominance is based on gender; transgender individuals present a threat to their view.  Where do you draw the line?  With groups, it's far more difficult to come to a consensus on where to draw it (Post-op only?  Pre-op ok too?  What about if they wear a really feminine cap?), so they just pigeonhole anyone with a Y chromosome.

Some of it may be due to feedback from the submissives, too.  There are a lot of men out there with a terrible fear of other Y chromosomes, and I'm sure they have pretty significant input on many of these clubs, even if they're on the s side of a power exchange.

I'm satisfied with just calling it sour grapes, though.  Any society that has a policy like that probably isn't worth joining.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 4:40:36 AM   
MsLilac


Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
Status: offline 		Hi LadyEllen,

I know very little about OWK, but I certainly see the double standard you point out. I believe OWK is a commercial venture? (please correct me if I am wrong). To me it seems rather discriminatory, especially if you were to bring along your own sub. In the sense of a commercial venture, I think OWK are missing out, because as you put it, TS Dommes are particularly rare, and could well be star guests! More fool them. Of course, it’s there own dictatorship, they can do as they please, but surely they ‘celebrate’ Female Domination in all its shades? The fact of the matter is though, that sub TS’s and CD’s subs are more commercially viable.

Apart from the obvious, I emotionally and intellectually see CD’s and TS’s as very different. My limited experience is that TS’s know they are female in all aspects, just so happens they were born into the wrong body, for whatever reason. So to answer your question then no, I do not see it as upsetting the dynamic at all, nor do I think TS’s (or CD’s) should automatically ‘be’ submissive.

If I were personally running a Fem Dom organisation, and a TS wanted to join, then by all means! I mean they are female, and Domme - enough said. But perhaps I am naïve in that opinion, but that’s how I see and cut it.

I assume there are groups out there specifically for TS Dommes? But I can see that kind of defeats the object of what one is trying to reach with their body modification - female, and not some grey shade in between the two genders.

I have a hard time seeing why a non-commercial Domme group would not want you there because of your past. I don’t agree with that, but the decision isn’t up to me sadly. Have you found any that accept your past, and what you are now?

_____________________________

I’m sorry, I don’t do autographs

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 4:46:00 AM   
MamaDomme


Posts: 283
Joined: 12/28/2006
Status: offline 		Lady Ellen,
I've had many, many friends over the years that are TS, TG, and CD.  I have always related to them wholely as how they personally identify themselves.  I suppose I may be one of the rare ones in that regard.  My spiritual path has allowed me to believe that the soul has no gender nor race and it is what it is. 

I view you as a woman.  I view you as a Dominant woman, and one that I admire greatly.

As for those that see you differently, I feel they really are losing out on a very chance to know someone that is honest to themselves and filled with courage and pride.

I applaud all that you do!

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 4:47:30 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		LadyEllen,

Some people are just close minded gits. I accept and respect you as a WOMAN because that is how you identify yourself. Who am I to question who you are? Who is anyone to question who you are? As far as I am concerned you are a Domme and a member of the Femdom community. If I was having a party or an event you would be more than welcome to come.

I do not understand how some of  the BDSM community say that we are open minded to all when in actuality nothing could be further from the truth. I see a lot of bias in the community and I think this is a reflection of our society. Humans simply haven't evolved as far as we would like to think we have. There are still some among us who hold onto old outdated views and other misinformation.

As you know I am a big supporter of crossdressers and the transgender community. To me these are people who have to struggle much harder than the average person just to be who they truly are. Society gives them a hard path to take and why? Because people fear that which is different than themselves. It is sad because I know some wonderful crossdressers who are great guys and they have to do what they do in total secret because of fear of rejection by the ones they love and society.

LadyEllen in closing all I have to say is this, you are much more of a Lady then those that reject you.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 5:04:38 AM   
DistantThunder


Posts: 48
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline 		Extraordinarily well stated points of view, I look forward to seeing where this thread leads.

As for me, one of my best and I do mean best friends is TG, got off to a rather unusual if not humorous start (She was Pre Op at that point) but with that out of the way and some... as does one say this... TRUTHS revealed... yeah that works, I have been blessed with a dear soul that I know will be there in any circumstances.

So by looking beyond the flesh, I have gained a soul... fair trade in my opinion. No... I retract that... I believe I have the lion's share in this trade.

As for the opinions of others, when I want it, I will either ask them for it or beat it out of them and even then it has minimal impact on my decisions as to my freinds, my philosophies or my perceptions.

Remember loves, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and 9 out of 10 of them stink... Just collect to you those that shares yours and either ignore or point and laugh at those who differ, but accept them into this creepy family of ours like that strange aunt who shows up at family reunions even though no one likes her *winks*

Dazvidanya,
D.T.

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 5:07:39 AM   
DistantThunder


Posts: 48
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline 		And I again entirely with Lashra... I would wager your ability to impress a crowd as a "Lady" than 80% of those who even care to make the attempt... and that is only out of the 10% who even try anymore.

D.T.

(in reply to DistantThunder)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 5:24:07 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I don't understand why it should even be an issue that you are TS. At all. To me, it's ridiculous. Ignore them (if you can).  IMO, these predjudiced types are not fit to wipe your shoes clean.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/19/2007 5:25:04 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to DistantThunder)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 5:33:04 AM   
RosaB


Posts: 852
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

So, the question is I suppose, for those ladies who do tolerate / accept / welcome even, the likes of me (and the likes of crossdressers), is it purely on the understanding that we remain males regardless, and therefore should be submissive? Is it upsetting the whole femdom dynamic, for me as a TS female, to be a domme?

E


Personally for me, once someone identifies themselves as female, male etc. that's who I accept them as; so, I wouldn't have a problem with their presence in any sense.  If you feel and say you are a woman, who am I to contradict that.  I would welcome your presence

Rosa

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 5:38:23 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLilac

I assume there are groups out there specifically for TS Dommes? But I can see that kind of defeats the object of what one is trying to reach with their body modification - female, and not some grey shade in between the two genders.

I have a hard time seeing why a non-commercial Domme group would not want you there because of your past. I don’t agree with that, but the decision isn’t up to me sadly. Have you found any that accept your past, and what you are now?


Hi Ms Lilac

Regrettably, there doesnt seem to be any comparable society out there for trans dommes at the moment - and youre right, it would really defeat the object all in all.

Its not that I'm not welcome to join femdom societies over here, (I'm a member of some already) - its that when it comes to events and parties, there's an issue. Socially there isnt an issue, and with a few there isnt an issue for playtime, but from my viewpoint it seems there is an issue once there is a general event. The message I get is that regardless of the positive views of some, in general I "aint a gal".

It just seems silly to me - but then again, I can see that a "no TS" policy is likely the only way they can go, because otherwise it could be that anyone goes?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to MsLilac)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 6:06:40 AM   
MsLilac


Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLilac

I assume there are groups out there specifically for TS Dommes? But I can see that kind of defeats the object of what one is trying to reach with their body modification - female, and not some grey shade in between the two genders.

I have a hard time seeing why a non-commercial Domme group would not want you there because of your past. I don’t agree with that, but the decision isn’t up to me sadly. Have you found any that accept your past, and what you are now?


Hi Ms Lilac

Regrettably, there doesnt seem to be any comparable society out there for trans dommes at the moment - and youre right, it would really defeat the object all in all.

Its not that I'm not welcome to join femdom societies over here, (I'm a member of some already) - its that when it comes to events and parties, there's an issue. Socially there isnt an issue, and with a few there isnt an issue for playtime, but from my viewpoint it seems there is an issue once there is a general event. The message I get is that regardless of the positive views of some, in general I "aint a gal".

It just seems silly to me - but then again, I can see that a "no TS" policy is likely the only way they can go, because otherwise it could be that anyone goes?

E



It is silly. There’s the double standard coming in again, my suggestion to them is practice what they preach! Lol. That seems so wrong to me. I can’t imagine how that would feel, but I commend you on being so calm and rational in the face of ignorance, hypocrisy and rudeness.

I don’t agree that allowing a TS Domme to enter there society is allowing “anyone” to go. Because for me a TS Domme, is a woman, whose orientation is dominant, just as the criteria states, but I see your point. As simple and as this may sound, it’s their loss, and would anyone want to be a part of a hypocritical group?

Have you considered starting your own Fem Dom group LadyEllen?


_____________________________

I’m sorry, I don’t do autographs

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 6:38:59 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi Ms Lilac

Now its funny you should ask whether I considered starting a group myself!

Its something I've thought about for a while - a trans friendly femdom group, where its understood from the outset that trans dommes are involved - but without making it exclusively trans, just exclusively femdom.

That way, I'm thinking that no one's going to be unnecessarily identified if theyre living stealth like me (apart from here), as there would be natural female dommes involved too. And that in turn, means we're not being exclusive and potentially setting ourselves against anyone - which is important to me, because I have a lot of natural female domme friends, and also means we could share members and thus gain access to expertise in organising events and so on!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to MsLilac)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 6:44:23 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		One day... just maybe, people will come to understand & realize that gender is not based on the presence or absence of dangly bits.

My partner is a woman. Doesn't matter that she has to do a small bit of reconstructive surgery so that the body mirrors her mind & everything else that makes her who she is... she is a woman & realistically & quite honestly, she never was a man.




_____________________________

MstrssPassion


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 6:54:22 AM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline 		LadyEllen,

i realize You are asking a question of the other Dommes here, but like You,
i tend to enjoy traveling the opposite direction on a one way street.

It is interesting to find that in a genre such as D/s, M/s, BDSM, where the
chorus constantly sings out for acceptance and tolerance of one another
and that which it is we do, there remains a fear of that which some do not
understand. Fear leads to predjudice, intolerance and discrimination, the
ugly side of mankind which we pretend doesn't happen within the ranks
of our lovely little world. "It is not me, puff, puff, therefore it is not."

Scat, piss, blood, knives, needles, whips, crops, chains, electro, branding,
piercing, scarring, mummification, breath play, forced, coerced, denied,
castration, humiliation, and i'm sure somewhere, chainsaw games, and we
cannot accept a soul whom identified with being a Female and having the
wherewithall to do something about it. Tsk, tsk, and shame on us.

Unfortunately, simple minds will remain simple minds even in the age of
Google and the endless opportunities such provide the masses to expand
their knowledge and understanding. No simple answer, no quick fix.

In the meantime, slip on that tee shirt which proudly states;

"Hey, I'm LadyEllen, You Can Kiss My Ass, And While You're Down
There, See If You Can Find Anything Else That Might Bother You"

All i can offer is understanding, respect and support.

chia* (the pet) 

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 7:01:18 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		A bit further on the ratio of subs/doms within the trans community

I happen to know quite a few (both f2m & m2f) that are dominant. Granted far more of the m2f are submissive but I think a lot of this comes from the fact that they have had to micromanage every aspect of their existence.... right down to their posture & the words they used prior to coming out, that when they did come out, they were exhausted by the control they placed upon themselves while attempting to pull off their costume party of concealing their true gender while attempting to present the one that was expected of them.

As for the f2m doms... I think that is just part of being a man in many regards. A lot of men stereotypically think that to be a man's man... you are on top of your game, you call the shots, you are in control, you make the rules. The transmen I know both in & out of the "lifestyle" are very much like this in many regards because the transition from woman to man conditioned them to be achievers. To not only become a man but then to have to exist in the man's world & compete among your own (if you will). I knew a few male-identifying boi's over the years, though not trans nor would they ever transition... they were male in every regard when it came to their energy. Some of the other boi's I've known who were very comfortable in their skin could go either way when it came to "all things kinky" but they are just being true to their nature... adventurous boys... lol.

Very few if any crossdressers I have ever encountered displayed dominance. I think that was part of the role they took on when they played the gender fence... to play the girl they played the demure aspect of the feminine. Sure, not all women are demure but all would have to agree that demure is not a masculine trait. To temporarily transition their selves into the woman of their minds eye they wished to be the opposite of the man they are expected to be each day.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 9/19/2007 7:04:38 AM >

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 7:02:46 AM   
MsLilac


Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Hi Ms Lilac

Now its funny you should ask whether I considered starting a group myself!

Its something I've thought about for a while - a trans friendly femdom group, where its understood from the outset that trans dommes are involved - but without making it exclusively trans, just exclusively femdom.

That way, I'm thinking that no one's going to be unnecessarily identified if theyre living stealth like me (apart from here), as there would be natural female dommes involved too. And that in turn, means we're not being exclusive and potentially setting ourselves against anyone - which is important to me, because I have a lot of natural female domme friends, and also means we could share members and thus gain access to expertise in organising events and so on!

E


Hi LadyEllen,

That sounds like a great idea to me!  Would love to hear about it if you do decide to go ahead with it.

_____________________________

I’m sorry, I don’t do autographs

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 7:11:44 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I think I have to explain that this isnt really (as I see it anyway) about social acceptance. Heck - most people dont even realise I'm TS unless I tell them. But then I'm lucky in that I pass fairly well and it isnt the same for others.

This is about (as I see it) something which is central to the whole femdom dynamic, mainly for males, but also I would think for some ladies.

For the males, I can totally see that it could be an issue for them to play with me, and especially to be intimate with me - even if in terms of socialising they accept me as female. I think back to my ex's reaction to my transition on this; I didnt understand at first what the problem was, I was still the same person, but when I turned the situation on its head, if it were her transitioning, then I realised that friendship, socialising and so on is a whole different thing to intimacy. If she had transitioned to male, I'm sorry to say that I'm pretty sure the marriage would have been over from my side too. We're still best friends by the way.

One can accept anyone as anything as a friend - but we tend to be more peculiar over those we get closer to, and that applies I think to even casual play in bdsm too. The merest knowledge that I wasnt born as I appear now to be, is often enough to deter admirers - and sorry to say I might have the same reaction. Its not to do with prejudice, its to do with deep rooted sexuality. Thats why I do understand on one level this whole thing, but on another level dont.

E



_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to chiaThePet)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 7:16:29 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I think I have to explain that this isnt really (as I see it anyway) about social acceptance. Heck - most people dont even realise I'm TS unless I tell them. But then I'm lucky in that I pass fairly well and it isnt the same for others.

This is about (as I see it) something which is central to the whole femdom dynamic, mainly for males, but also I would think for some ladies.

For the males, I can totally see that it could be an issue for them to play with me, and especially to be intimate with me - even if in terms of socialising they accept me as female. I think back to my ex's reaction to my transition on this; I didnt understand at first what the problem was, I was still the same person, but when I turned the situation on its head, if it were her transitioning, then I realised that friendship, socialising and so on is a whole different thing to intimacy. If she had transitioned to male, I'm sorry to say that I'm pretty sure the marriage would have been over from my side too. We're still best friends by the way.

One can accept anyone as anything as a friend - but we tend to be more peculiar over those we get closer to, and that applies I think to even casual play in bdsm too. The merest knowledge that I wasnt born as I appear now to be, is often enough to deter admirers - and sorry to say I might have the same reaction. Its not to do with prejudice, its to do with deep rooted sexuality. Thats why I do understand on one level this whole thing, but on another level dont.

E




Your marriage ending was not because of her not accepting you for who you are... we already know that YOU didn't change.. only the packaging.

Same regard for your comment about your ex if she had been the one to transition. I assume this is based on orientation moreso than the sum of the person. I assume that you prefer the female form as for intimacy rather than the masculine... or am I not reading this correctly. ( I have been off the boards for a while now)




_____________________________

MstrssPassion


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 7:27:00 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi MissP

Yes, from my point of view only my "packaging" had changed, so I didnt get it at first as to why it would be an issue.

But, thinking about it, if she had done the reverse and I was "normal" - then the idea of her growing a beard, developing a deep voice and so on, would have definitely been a problem. I guess the same thing applies for me now with crossdresser guys - I dont have anything against crossdressing and as guys they're often the nicest around, but I prefer guys to be guys and to look like guys, you know? So yes, for my ex it was an issue of orientation overall I think - she prefers guys. Quite what she was doing with me is another question.......!

That said though, transition did change me - quite a lot as it happens, once the brakes were off!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 7:47:19 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		Becca & I find ourselves giggling at times when we make observations on the raising of the family.

She will say... "I don't get it, I didn't do that when I was his age. I didn't do that when I was a little boy."
My reply, "My dear... you were never a little boy"


_____________________________

MstrssPassion


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 20
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