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RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 7:51:03 AM   
canupleaseme


Posts: 775
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline 		Wow.  I had never realised that there was such a thing happening, especially in a group of people who are doing stuff fairly out of the norm anyway.   I dont have many friends who are TG but I did run a beauty therapy session once a week at a salon I worked in after hours which was directly for TG's to get treatments done.  Many felt uncomfortable going into a salon in the day because of narrowminded people.  Everyone of them was what I would call a lady.  In mannerisms movement in chat etc.  I guess because I'm very open minded I find it hard to undertand why people can be so crazy about it all.  I am all for female supremacy but if groups like the owk and such like be more accepting I say fuck them right off and find somewhere that will.  As its been suggested starting your own would be a great idea (an awful lot of time and energy) but a great idea.
I have to say Lady Ellen I had no idea you were tg untill we coresponded a while back .


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RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 7:54:40 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

Becca & I find ourselves giggling at times when we make observations on the raising of the family.

She will say... "I don't get it, I didn't do that when I was his age. I didn't do that when I was a little boy."
My reply, "My dear... you were never a little boy"



sounds familiar! I often get to saying stuff to UM M12 like, "youre too young to be looking at xxx, or doing xxxx! I never did that at your age" Then I think for a second..... "but then again maybe I'm not the right person to judge!"

And there's the joke that I and a CD friend share on the rare occasion when we're out and I buy drinks. "seven pounds for two drinks!? Good grief! Its a bit dear isnt it? That would have been two pounds when I were a lad"

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 8:09:14 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		I would never have a problem with you as you are in a "female" arena.  It is as if the bylaws suggest men would pretend to go enfemme to sneak in and have their way.  Silliness. 

Bits do not make a man or a woman, in my mind...it's all about what you feel inside you, as Passion said.  If these clubs and places were under my control I'd let you in and the rules would say that it was open to naturally born and non naturally born women

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Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 8:11:11 AM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I think I have to explain that this isnt really (as I see it anyway) about social acceptance. Heck - most people dont even realise I'm TS unless I tell them. But then I'm lucky in that I pass fairly well and it isnt the same for others.

This is about (as I see it) something which is central to the whole femdom dynamic, mainly for males, but also I would think for some ladies.

For the males, I can totally see that it could be an issue for them to play with me, and especially to be intimate with me - even if in terms of socialising they accept me as female. I think back to my ex's reaction to my transition on this; I didnt understand at first what the problem was, I was still the same person, but when I turned the situation on its head, if it were her transitioning, then I realised that friendship, socialising and so on is a whole different thing to intimacy. If she had transitioned to male, I'm sorry to say that I'm pretty sure the marriage would have been over from my side too. We're still best friends by the way.

One can accept anyone as anything as a friend - but we tend to be more peculiar over those we get closer to, and that applies I think to even casual play in bdsm too. The merest knowledge that I wasnt born as I appear now to be, is often enough to deter admirers - and sorry to say I might have the same reaction. Its not to do with prejudice, its to do with deep rooted sexuality. Thats why I do understand on one level this whole thing, but on another level dont.

E




i do hear and understand what You are saying in context of social and intimate
differences and applications. i do understand that a male might have an issue
with intimate exchange, they are afforded that right, understanding does go
both ways here. My thoughts on predjudice stem from the fact that You are
denied opportunity by those whom run the show. Is there no one whom
would welcome exchange with You, with honest knowledge of who You
are, in these events? Bias of those whom run the show deny those whom
would be accepting of such even the opportunity. i'm not sure if these
"allowances or denials" are based on a majority rules situation within these
specific groups or events, if so, not much one can do about the situation.

i'm an admitted bi boy, i realize there are those, especially male, whom
have an issue with such and would not welcome me in a group situation
where intimate contact is a possibility. i completely understand that the
sexuality they identify with has no place for mine. i can however, play
in a heterosexual scenerio and respect the boundries. For some though,
just the knowledge of who i am could remain an issue. "Oh God, he's
looking at me, he wants me, now i can't get it up." But i would resent
being kept out of events where much of the behavior i described in
my first reply was occurring, "just because" i identify with a specific
sexuality. Again, i would understand such, but i wouldn't neccessarily
like it. Anything i could do about it? Not really, beyond finding those
events which would welcome me as i am. i just think it's funny that with
all the screams for tolerance and acceptance within this genre, there
appears to be a knee-jerk reaction for some to think for all.

Society simply makes me laugh, all stumbling over itself to align what
is or isn't acceptable at the moment. Perhaps i was wrong, but here,
i was hoping to find a broader inclusion of myself and others for the
complete person we each are. Issues will occur, understood, but
again, are there souls out there being denied exhange because a
few control the access to the arena? That i believe, needs adjusting.

chia* (the pet)

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You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 8:17:48 AM   
TheIronHorse


Posts: 149
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline 		Lady Ellen,

Am I to understand that you're having problems with genetic women within femdom groups?   While I wouldnt call it bias against the TG community, I'd call it a lack of experience on their part. I've been in and out of the lifestyle for some 17 years.  I think the mainstreaming of the lifestyle through the popular media (and internet) attracts many who dont grasp the larger picture, or the roots in which modern BDSM came from. 

My formative experiences in the lifestyle came from within the gay lesbian and transgendered culture, so maybe that colors my views.  If I am engaged in casual conversation with a TG person, his/her origins are none of my business.  If I am looking to interact with that person in more than a casual manner, I feel I am entitled to know the truth. 






quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Hi Ms Lilac

Now its funny you should ask whether I considered starting a group myself!

Its something I've thought about for a while - a trans friendly femdom group, where its understood from the outset that trans dommes are involved - but without making it exclusively trans, just exclusively femdom.

That way, I'm thinking that no one's going to be unnecessarily identified if theyre living stealth like me (apart from here), as there would be natural female dommes involved too. And that in turn, means we're not being exclusive and potentially setting ourselves against anyone - which is important to me, because I have a lot of natural female domme friends, and also means we could share members and thus gain access to expertise in organising events and so on!

E

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 8:28:59 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

It is as if the bylaws suggest men would pretend to go enfemme to sneak in and have their way.  Silliness. 



Hi

Now its funny you should mention that - because on two occasions now, its been suggested in my hearing that this is a concern, and on one occasion that this had happened to someone and it had turned out very badly.

The "turned out very badly" was related to me by a lesbian woman whose friend when she was at university had been picked up by what she thought was a woman. They went back to her place, where she was promptly beaten and raped - apparently in any case, although this story was told to me after the lesbian woman in question had unwittingly just told me her thoughts about trans women, which werent good, having taken me as a natural female lesbian too. Whether its true, or a fiction to explain her dislike I dont know, but clearly the scenario could happen assuming a male could pass as female - but equally clearly, someone who was TS would be unlikely to perform such an act, even if given hormone treatments, they were able to. Anyway, we became friends and she realised such a scenario doesnt apply and her ideas changed.

The "concern" was something raised in a femdom forum a while back, centering around the idea of TS women and TV guys changing in the female toilets at fetish clubs. Again, the idea was around the notion that guys might pretend to be gals simply to perpetrate some sort of sexual act or to catch a glimpse of women, also changing in the toilets. The person concerned wanted anyone not born natural female, banned from the ladies toilets.

I cant answer for crossdressers, but again as far I'm concerned I found this whole idea remarkably stupid. What this person thought I might want to see boobs for I dont know - I can take off my top and see some anytime I want! And on the sexual side, the same applies as above - aint possible!

Anyway, the discussion moved on and it was suggested that such a policy could be enforced by ladies providing ID with their gender marked on it, to gain entry to the toilets. That kind of fell down though, when I pointed out that my passport, my driving licence and everything else is not only marked female, but the numbers (which are ordered differently here for male and female) are also female. So I'd gain entry - meanwhile a natural woman who had forgotten her ID would be directed to the male toilets.......

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 8:34:01 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheIronHorse

If I am looking to interact with that person in more than a casual manner, I feel I am entitled to know the truth. 



Absolutely. I'm pretty sure that if I didnt disclose then I wouldnt have a problem, you know? Apart from feeling that I had knowingly deceived someone, which would be a bigger problem.

Friends and acquaintances and colleagues - some know, some dont. Its a need to know basis, and even those who know usually only know because they knew me in a past life.

Anyone closer than that deserves to know, its that simple.
E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 8:41:51 AM   
TheIronHorse


Posts: 149
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline 		Right,

If you're accepted as a peer with similar interests and goals, your status, for lack of a better word, is no ones business.  


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheIronHorse

If I am looking to interact with that person in more than a casual manner, I feel I am entitled to know the truth. 



Absolutely. I'm pretty sure that if I didnt disclose then I wouldnt have a problem, you know? Apart from feeling that I had knowingly deceived someone, which would be a bigger problem.

Friends and acquaintances and colleagues - some know, some dont. Its a need to know basis, and even those who know usually only know because they knew me in a past life.

Anyone closer than that deserves to know, its that simple.
E

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 10:30:58 AM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline 		I respect transfolk as the gender they really are versus the accident/birth defect that screwed up their bodies to begin with.

One of the issues that any dungeon play group may be familiar with however is cross dressers who are *not* trans and identify only temporarily as the other gender for the purposes of sexual, kinky or fetish play.  Not that there's anything wrong with this either, but you can see where it's reasonable to state that heterosexual male submissives at a femdom event should not be expected to submit to other men, even if those men are currently dressed as women. 

Of course the words "no thank you" work just fine, but a lot of heterosexual men have a way of being weirdly homophobic, so a lot of groups cater (excessively, I think) to their comfort level.  Especially the ones who make their money primarily off of heterosexual men.

I have no problem accepting a transgender individual as their proper gender regardless of their dangly bits, but some folks do - probably the same heterosexual homophobic males.  And again some groups are going to cater to their personal narrowness by excluding transfolk.  Lame, isn't it?  As if "no thanks" isn't perfectly sufficient if you are approached by someone who doesn't fit your personal tastes for whatever reason. 

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 1:00:11 PM   
rhythmboi


Posts: 46
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline 		so, it goes like this ( http://www.sheerchaos.org/comics/ct2001/page1.html ) but with more leather?

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 1:21:51 PM   
TheIronHorse


Posts: 149
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline 		Interesting "graphic novel", the bias LadyEllen spoke of is not unique...

TIH

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhythmboi

so, it goes like this ( http://www.sheerchaos.org/comics/ct2001/page1.html ) but with more leather?

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 1:37:26 PM   
FullfigRIMaam


Posts: 718
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

But something bugs me, and I wondered what the views out there were. There are a few femdom societies in the UK, some of which I am a member. These societies organise parties and events and the like –which I am not permitted to attend, for the reason that I am not a natural born female. Its similar with OWK, to which I am not permitted entry for the same reason. Now I understand this to an extent, for the same reasons described above and in the light of the group nature of the activities it could become difficult if someone objected to me being there as a TS domme. Meanwhile of course, sub TS females and sub crossdressers are more than welcome.

But, assuming I brought my own (more than willing) sub/slave to such a party or event, and didn’t get into playing with other dommes’ subs/slaves, would it be a problem still I wondered? Turns out, that yes it still would be
Wow, it's hard to believe that you'd have such difficulty in the UK.   I thought they had less stiffness up their rears in regards to sex.
I would absolutely not have a problem with a CD or TS attending a play party or playing along with other fem dominants.   It's not terribly surprising to me as I feel a lot of these types of groups are cliquy and I guess insecurity rules.  Why would anyone be threatened by whether one was born with extra organs that perhaps didn't rightly belong there?    I am grateful that I didn't feel shunned the couple of times I've attended parties, but I would never even belong to a group who treated me the way they are treating you.   I understand you are stronger and can face them and their prejudices, but I'm not to big on turning the other cheek to people who mistreat me, or cannot come to accept/respect me as a person. 
Good luck in getting them to change their minds,   M

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 2:07:21 PM   
Cuckme4Life


Posts: 168
Joined: 7/8/2005
From: MentallyDeranged,Tn.
Status: offline 		Im not a Mistress but my heart goes out to you

I would imagine there are quite a few factors what you are experiencing. After having lived in Houston for 6 years I was exposed to (for me a culture shock at the time) many many transgendered people. Some identified themselves in the BDSM wold as well as the TS world.  For those in the BDSM world, they too felt unwelcome at times. Some attributed the issue as being the focus of jealousies to their beauty compared to some if not most of the Dommes they encountered. Bottom line is, no matter how it is sliced, You should be identified as effiminate and not masculine as You so indentify your own self.  I view M2Fs as Feminine and Female and am very accustomed to addressing as such,  "She" and "Her".

You may not be welcome in those UK groups but You are welcome to be my Domme anytime!!  I think TSs are awesome and fascinating.  *wink* 

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/19/2007 3:34:16 PM   
orfunboi


Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		It wouldn't matter here in Detroit, at least not from what i have observed. In fact out of all the ladies that i am friendly with, who have transgendered, the majority of them are dominant or tops. The only Femmedomme group that i am aware of, only requires that you identify as female. There is a leather womens dinner that i know you would be welcomed at also. As to OWK and those like it, well it's truly their loss.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/20/2007 6:50:20 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		{fast reply}

It seems to be fairly clear to me the older I get & the more I witness

People/groups/organizations & so forth that tend to be intolerant are in all reality expressing their own insecurities

(in many cases they themselves are in denial of being the very things they fervently oppose)

"thou doest protest too much"


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MstrssPassion


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/20/2007 7:15:54 AM   
LadyLynx


Posts: 1098
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		ok, I'm confuzzed.  These groups would let in ts/tg subs but not Dommes?! WTF!  and further more, just because there aren't many many female predators that prey on other women, doesn't mean they don't exist.

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Our community maybe openminded as a whole, but it is still made up of individuals who bring in their own opinions,baggage and agendas!

Known as SwitchWitch in my local community,and on IRC Bondage.

I also go by the nic SwitchWitch on MDS.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/20/2007 8:21:08 AM   
SunNMoon


Posts: 1058
Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I’m still not calmed down from yesterday but I thought I’d give it a shoot. I’m just confused. I don’t get it at all, people are people are people. If you consider yourself female then you are, no biggie (vice versa if you’re male). It’s what’s on the inside that counts. So I’m just going to sit here and be glad that I’m upset and confused by their actions.


PS
Lady Ellen, I never knew until you mentioned it. And you’re still one of those people I’d like to get to know over a cup of coffee.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/21/2007 1:36:56 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi All

Firstly, thanks to everyone for such wonderful comments and contributions!

Secondly, I have now got myself in gear and started to do something about it all. I've set up a Yahoo discussion group so that those interested can take part in an ongoing chat about the whole thing - and made it "trans friendly" rather than simply and exclusively trans, because given the apparent interest of natural female dommes shown here, and the likely preference of some in my situation to not disclose their status, that seems the best way. Behind the scenes, the group already has a few members, both natural females and trans females.

As a crafty aside(!) it also means we can share the more open members of the exclusive femdom groups that exist without becoming a rival, and maybe also gain access to their expertise and experience in organising parties and events!

At the moment this is a UK chat group, as its intended to have trans-domme friendly femdom events in the UK - but there is no reason why friends from all over the world couldnt join and contribute - or of course start something similar in their own countries if they have a similar issue going on.

If anyone I havent contacted already is interested, then please mail me on the other side for details.

Thanks
E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/21/2007 5:53:54 AM   
BlackSakura


Posts: 131
Joined: 7/23/2006
Status: offline 		Lady Ellen.  You are not alone. I am having some of the same issues.  It never get's easy does it?! ^_^
-Miss Erica


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Before you criticize someone you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them you're a mile away, and you have their shoes!

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Trans dommes? - 9/21/2007 6:02:54 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi Erica

At least we know its only a few who have any problem with us.

Love your profile by the way!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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