RE: What if I am insane?

RE: What if I am insane? (Full Version)

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Squeakers -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:19:50 PM)
First, I think that everyone wonders from time to time why they are lead to this lifestyle. I've pondered it myself, but I don't do it too often, I've sort of gotten to a point of accepting that I am here and the how's and why's simply do not matter because I am not willing to move away from what I enjoy. I think there is a line between mental illness and insanity. Perhaps I am wrong but I believe the difference is---if one is insane, they are no longer able to function in the real world in a healthy manner and are a threat to themselves and/or those around them. There are many many people who suffer a mental illness who are still able to lead a productive 'normal' life. Now, it is true that S/M is defined as a mental illness. But so was homosexuality at one time and many still believe that it is a mental illness. I truly believe that society is slowly changing it's views regarding sexuality. It is a slow process. This lifestyle is really going to take time for the views to change. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime. I really do feel that defining this lifestyle as a mental illness is SOMETIMES very valid however but it depends on the circumstances and it depends on who is judging it. For example, everyone has heard a story about someone who meets someone on the net, (vanilla or otherwise) they quit their job, give up their home, sell their belongings and take all their UM's in tow and relocate to live with someone they have talked to for two and half weeks. Personally, I would find this an insane act BUT sometimes it works out well. The bottom line is, what do you think? You are the best judge of yourself. Do you feel your acts are insane? I think personally if you are making your choices in a healthy state of mind, you really should not worry about it.

xoxi -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:20:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth You may be crazy - At my income level I qualify as "eccentric". [8D] Heh. Okay that just made me LOL. Quit it! This thread is srs bzns, yo! [sm=cool.gif]

MadRabbit -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:20:15 PM)
insanity 1 : a deranged state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder (as schizophrenia) 2 : such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or as removes one from criminal or civil responsibility 3 a : extreme folly or unreasonableness b : something utterly foolish or unreasonable Well, given definition 1, someone with the mental disorder of ADD would be insane so I would worry mostly about definition of 2 and 3. (Also given definition 3, I would say the "No Limits" thread falls reasonably within the margin of that definition as well as the beleivers of the 1000 year old BDSM society so...hey...your doing better than quite a few people)

breatheasone -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:20:53 PM)
xoxi, when I would cut..or hurt myself in other ways, it wasn't the disfigurement for me...it was ALL about the pain...It almost reminded me I was alive....and that I could FEEL.....I haven't done that sort of thing for a very long time...(I had a GREAT Psychiatrist) I don't look at WIITWD as harming myself. I look at it as a healthy outlet for my inner most desires and cravings. I KNOW I have worth...I know I have value. I believe I'm basically a good woman...wife....mother ...daughter...sister...niece... slave. I just don't see how "controlled abuse" is harming myself

UR2Badored -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:26:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi UR2BA - I don't think the cure is simply social acceptance. I think that my desires would be considered counterproductive and not in my best interest. I can't justify saying I want to be raped by my boyfriend by saying it turns me on, because it's not like the act itself feels good. It turns me on mentally to know he can do that...just like it excites cutters mentally to know they are disfiguring themselves. I was not trying to imply that your thoughts could be simply cured with social acceptance. I was just pointing out that there is a medical term condemning BDSM, and I was refering to my general beliefs. I am sorry for any hard feelings..........I did not even mention cutters or meant to imply as such.... In your situation, I dont think your necessarilly alone in having these thoughts. There are several threads about eating disorders on here and such.

Invictus754 -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:27:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi This is something I've thought about for years and years. The 'no limits' thread brought it once again to the forefront of my mind. I like being 'abused.' I like being slapped, and choked, and used sexually for my man's pleasure. I like being told that I'm nothing without him, and that I exist to please him. I do have limits, yes, but I genuinely enjoy activities that are considered abusive by the world as a whole. I'm sure most of you are reading this and thinking, so what? That's just your kink. Your kink is fine, my kink is fine, our kinks are all fine. I wish I could believe that just as badly as I wish I could believe Christ died for my sins and I will go to a place called heaven when I die - I really really do. But I can't. I wonder, why do I have this 'kink' and is it truly sane? I'm going to ignore the actions themselves because they take two consenting people, and focus only on my thoughts. Is thinking "I like to feel violated, but that's okay because it's my kink" any different than saying "I like to fantasize about children, but that's okay because it's my kink"? And if people are hesitant to use the law as a judgement (because BDSM is considered illegal by the law, and insane by mental health standards) then what IS the paradigm of judgement? I'm not asking if my kink is "okay" because that's subjective. I'm genuinely wondering, does this kink make me insane? Is it a product of mental illness on my part, in the same way that mental illness causes people to cut themselves, bash their head against walls, or take their own lives? Is the sexual turn on actually a symptom of a deeper problem rather than the root of the kink itself? And I'm wondering, does anyone else have these thoughts? I'm not talking about a little spanky spanky that leads to orgasm for both of you, I'm talking about a deeper level of D/s dynamic where there is a craving to be abused. Not for an orgasm, not for endorphins, but enjoying the fact that someone will slap you and make you cry. Enjoying the feeling of powerlessness, helplessness, and actively searching out a 'victim' role. I'm not looking for pat answers of "it's okay if you enjoy it" or "its just a kink, don't judge yourself" - this question has been in my head for years and it's not going to heal with a mental bandaid. If anyone wants to explore this idea with me further, I will be very grateful. Why believe society's definition of 'insane'? It is just to one side of what society preaches as "normal". And why is there "judgement" in the equation? Can't you live life without trying to give it a meaning? Life is just that - life. Enjoy it as no other animal can - with the self-awareness that you understand things about the multiverse other animals do not, and with the satisfaction of knowing that you are part of a race who has conquered need (whether we practice our knowledge correctly is a completely different topic). You live in a time and place that isn't a subsistance living and you have the opportunity to use your body for pleasure as YOU see fit. Don't fret about what other's wrongly believe is "the truth". Do what YOU want as long as it does not hurt someone else. So you like certain things that excite you and not others; that does not make you insane. Insane is the Geneva conventions - a gentleman's guide to committing wartime atrocities. Insane is going into a frenzy and covering yourself with snakes during Christian worship. Insane is driving at 110 miles per hour during rush hour because you are late for work. You aren't close to insane.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:27:45 PM)
As a pragmastic, the key issue for me has always been level of functioning. Do you create and maintain long term healthy fulfilling relationships? Do you maintain a positive level of stability and security in your life overall? If so, then I think the rest is just irrelevant for the most part. It's just you being you.

teamnoir -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:33:57 PM)
What if you are? I mean, would it change anything that you're doing or how you're living your life?

MadRabbit -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:35:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UR2Badored I was just pointing out that there is a medical term condemning BDSM, and I was refering to my general beliefs. From the article you presented... "Paraphilias are problems with controlling impulses that are characterized by recurrent and intense sexual fantasies, urges, and behaviors involving unusual objects, activities, or situations not considered sexually arousing to others. In addition, these objects, activities or situations often are necessary for the person's sexual functioning. With a paraphilia, the individual's urges and behaviors cause significant distress and/or personal, social or occupational dysfunction. Someone with a paraphilia may be referred to as "kinky" or "perverted," and these behaviors may have serious social and legal consequences." I would specifically note these two bolded phrases, because I have absolutely no issues controlling my impulses nor do I have any significant distress or social, personal or occupational dysfunction. Someone with a paraphilia may be referred to as "kinky" or "perverted", but this doesnt mean that people who identity as "kinky" automatically fall within the scope of this mental disease here. This kind of thesis reminds me a lot on essays regarding a "clinical sadist" and a "clinical pedohile". Its at best, a generalization, and one targeting kinky people, but inaccurate regarding "kinky people" as a whole. I would also say that it is best described as a "problem among kinky people" and not "the problem with being kinky"

breatheasone -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:40:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: UR2Badored I was just pointing out that there is a medical term condemning BDSM, and I was refering to my general beliefs. From the article you presented... "Paraphilias are problems with controlling impulses that are characterized by recurrent and intense sexual fantasies, urges, and behaviors involving unusual objects, activities, or situations not considered sexually arousing to others. In addition, these objects, activities or situations often are necessary for the person's sexual functioning. With a paraphilia, the individual's urges and behaviors cause significant distress and/or personal, social or occupational dysfunction. Someone with a paraphilia may be referred to as "kinky" or "perverted," and these behaviors may have serious social and legal consequences." I would specifically note these two bolded phrases, because I have absolutely no issues controlling my impulses nor do I have any significant distress or social, personal or occupational dysfunction. Someone with a paraphilia may be referred to as "kinky" or "perverted", but this doesnt mean that people who identity as "kinky" automatically fall within the scope of this mental disease here. This kind of thesis reminds me a lot on essays regarding a "clinical sadist" and a "clinical pedohile". Its at best, a generalization, and one targeting kinky people, but inaccurate regarding "kinky people" as a whole. I would also say that it is best described as a "problem among kinky people" and not "the problem with being kinky" I couldn't agree more....Very good points about how being kinky doesn't mean you can't control yourself, or that you can't function in society

UR2Badored -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:42:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UR2Badored According to the definition of paraphilia <--click here (actual mental diagnosis), some might believe BDSM activities are symptoms of an illness . quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: UR2Badored I was just pointing out that there is a medical term condemning BDSM, and I was refering to my general beliefs. From the article you presented... "Paraphilias are problems with controlling impulses that are characterized by recurrent and intense sexual fantasies, urges, and behaviors involving unusual objects, activities, or situations not considered sexually arousing to others. In addition, these objects, activities or situations often are necessary for the person's sexual functioning. With a paraphilia, the individual's urges and behaviors cause significant distress and/or personal, social or occupational dysfunction. Someone with a paraphilia may be referred to as "kinky" or "perverted," and these behaviors may have serious social and legal consequences." I would specifically note these two bolded phrases, because I have absolutely no issues controlling my impulses nor do I have any significant distress or social, personal or occupational dysfunction. MadRabbit: Good for you. I would argue the same thing except I need to inform Dominants that according to this article "The participants are aware that the behavior is a "game," and actual pain and injury is avoided." That sucks....and I think the whole thing is baloney which was my point with exception to some listed. I regret that I did not make myself clear. I was being sarcastic. I will call a truce...... I dont want to take over this thread ....You can quote all you want, and I wont respond and allow you the last word. I am already the guilty culprit of that other dreadful thread. Peace --(note: by the time I edited this we were on the same page :-)

Celeste43 -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:43:03 PM)
Can you balance a checkbook? Can you hold a job? Are you capable of raising a family? Do you hear voices in your head and then do what they tell you to do? Those are the kinds of things that are closer to insanity. Now I'm not into s&m, neither emotionally nor physically so I can't talk about that. But I will say that I am much happier and stronger submitting to him. And not just I but my therapist agrees. And she's clinically trained with a doctorate so I have to figure she knows what she's talking about. Putting aside insane or not, are you happier and healthier in this relationship or out of it? Does it help you function better or prevent you from functioning. The only way I'm not as strong is driving. He doesn't trust me to drive long distances to places I don't know. Actually he doesn't like me driving much at all. So since I don't do it so much anymore, I'm worse at it. But with everything else I'm doing better. And I would rather he drove at night even if it's just two miles away, I hate night driving.

MadRabbit -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:45:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UR2Badored quote: ORIGINAL: UR2Badored According to the definition of paraphilia <--click herer (actual mental diagnosis), some might believe BDSM activities are symptoms of an illness . MadRabbit: Good for you I realize you said that, but I was disagreeing with your statement that the article was condemning BDSM. Edited to Add : I just didnt take it like that at all, but were both in agreement regarding this issue and I dont want to start talking over each on a tangenet [:D]

RaptureOfDesire -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 5:46:54 PM)
I am new to this website, and really, very new to this lifestyle. However, I have had thoughts and desires closely related to yours for a very long time, but never thought I would find the right person to live this "lifestyle" with. So, even though I am very green, here are my thoughts. First off, for me, I can only imagine letting one person do those sorts of things to me. I love him deeply, he is my soulmate. He is the only one I could ever trust to do these sorts of things. He cuts me, fogs, slaps, burns, humilates, rapes and makes me feel t he lowest I have ever been in my life. But, I NEED to feel these things. And yes, it is sexual and I receive great pleasure from it. But more so than the sexual nature, I need this mentally. It fulfills my life and makes me feel complete. I cannot imagine my life without this now. So, basically, I can my situation being different than most, after reading lots and lots of posts, most of you have had several BSDM partners.......I could never do this with anyone but the one I love. Am I insane? Well, to me insanity is a condition that you cannot control, that could possibly cause harm to yourself or others. I know not everyone shares that definition, but it's mine. I can control this, however, I dont want to. We live in that "NO Limits" realm, however, I have complete trust in him that he will not kill me or disfigure me to the extreme, therefore, this is not harmful to anyone. If I am insane, then I do not care. I have had a rather good life too - never beat or been in bad relationships, or anything like that. I came from a good family, college educated and I have many friends. So the thought that this may lead to something deeper within me, doesnt even cross my mind. I have had no experiences in my life that would cause me to commit suicide or anything like that. So basically, I just consider this part of my desires, both mentally, sexually, and this is basically just something that I need to fill...to make me complete and to complete the man I love. I hope this helps.

laurell3 -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 6:08:25 PM)
Yes you are completely around the bend insane, mad as a hatter, loony....so what? Everyone is insane, it's a matter of degree. The better question is can you embrace this part of you without feeling badly about yourself. Can you have a d/s relationship without loosing yourself and your self esteem? Do you do it TO feel bad, to punish yourself? to keep yourself down? Based on your prior posts, I would guess the answer to these questions is no. Don't fix what isn't broken. By the way if you've ever had the opportunity to look at the DSM, pretty much everything is a "mental illness" and as we've already discussed on these forums what is legal or not legal is determined by a very small group of people that have not much concept of reality for the rest of the world. Oral sex is still illegal in alot of places, I'm kind of doubting the senators, judges and cops in those places aren't telling their wives and/or SO's, no honey I can't have a blow job, it's not legal. Neither of these are standards by which to judge one's self. How you feel about you is. Not how HE or SHE feels about you, not some Dom/me, not nameless people on a forum. YOU and no one else determines how you feel and you are the most important thing to you always. If you is not ok with you, if you are not ok with your desire to be abused, find a way to get some help and work on it. But I think you will find that there are alot of people out there with similar desires that have struggled with it, faced it and still embraced it and live healthy productive and even helpful lives.

apiercedkitty -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 6:14:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirCache Insanity is when you seek it out in everyone, regardless of the consequences, and regardless of what everyone else wants--at the expense of everything else you hold dear. What a FABULOUS definition...

SunnyTawse -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 6:15:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie On the other side of the spectrum, a friend of mine who was majoring in psychology and also happened to be a femdomme called me in a rage one day because her psych professor was talking about BDSM being a manifestation of mental illness. So I guess even the professionals can't even make up their mind. At one time several years ago, I was in a position to be able to do academic research on bdsm, and I did it full-time for about six months. What I found was that almost all of the bdsm research out there has been done on sociopaths and on people who go to psychiatrists because some aspect of their lives are causing them distress in ways that have already been addressed in this thread. It takes a significant amount of time and money to do these studies, and the people who fund them want to solve a specific problem rather than look into whether people with happy and productive lives are interested in kink. That's why so many mental health professionals think we're manifesting mental illness--there aren't many other academic models out there for them to look at. Sunny Tawse Sadien Domina, and damn proud of it Archon of Rings http://AthenorLodge.com

BlindDescent -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 6:41:24 PM)
Let's dissect this another way. Insane implies a complete loss of stability; as opposed to having a mental illness. Mental illness has its own depth of strata as well. Troubled thoughts to full blown psychosis. Not all paranoid schizophrenics murder...not all murderers are paranoid schizophrenics. So using the term insane is a charged statement. The references to paraphillias also has a range and depth of perception and behavioral manefestation. This is parallel to terms like attraction, over valued idea, repetative behavior, obsession...as well as different, quirky, odd, bizzarre, kinky, fetishistic, psychotic, insane. Our depths of embrace to any particular theme cold be at any place on the spectrum of intensity at any time...unless of course one has lost self control. I think the the more poignant topic might be related to how does one evaluate where one in on this spectrum; considering the flexible and ever undulating boundaries that we all have. Having worked in psychiatry for over 25 years, my views of insanity have a significantly broader interpretation. One of the most important tools I use here to keep from losing my perspective/boundaries; is do my actions improve or degrade my partner's life. So conversely; does your partner promote your insanity; or do they promote your longevity? This is a significant thread, and I hope it gives pause to those who need a moment to ponder their place here. I appreciate that the responses are serious and not smirky...this is what makes aspects of our collective consciousness a positive force.

junecleaver -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:00:27 PM)
We were discussing mental illness in one of my classes recently. My professor has a friend who spent a lot of time in the African jungle area. Once he was walking from this path from a little jungle village to the closest 'city.' when some naked guy jumped out from the bush, ranting and raving and talking to invisible people. He barely looked at my professor's friend, before he disappeared back into the jungle. Later, he was discussing the event with a native. He explained that in the US we put people like that in hospitals and give them medication in order to stop the things they see. The native guy said, "You have a very unusual and cruel culture!" Insanity is a matter of opinion. But I still wouldn't let you tie me up and beat me if your best friend was invisible.

SunNMoon -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:06:42 PM)
Xoxi, Are you insane? Well I can’t judge that. But, are your desires interfering in your life? Do they make you unhappy? Do you believe you are nothing with out him? Are you truly a victim or are you just creating a situation where you are the “victim”? Going off from that do you need to seek someone out to save you from your role? (I don’t think it’s the last one at all…just seemed to follow for me.) If you didn’t have this desire would you be happy? Just some things to think about. I’ve wondered if I’m insane. I have a dark side similar to MadRabbit’s. Mind you mine’s a lot smaller and I keep it locked away (it freaks me out); think the innocent crazy girl from a dystopia that works for the evil government. All I’m saying we all have a dark side of some kind. The question is, does it have a negative impact on how we treat others, and are we able to lead happy lives? If the answer is in a positive manner then are we insane?

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