RE: What if I am insane?

RE: What if I am insane? (Full Version)

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MadRabbit -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:09:05 PM)
Fast Reply to No One "There is no proof that people with unusual sexual fetishes or desires are any less functional than other people. Instead, there is considerable evidence that as a group, kinky people are in the mainstream: stable, middle class family people who maintain careers and participate in their communities. In other words, they are socially functional, which is a standard of psychological normalcy." - Dr. Gloria G. Brame, "Come Hither" in rebuttal to the fallcy of "People with Kinky Desires Have Psychological Problems"

RRafe -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:17:07 PM)
There is no norm. Everyone differs on some sort of scale. Thomas Jefferson reffered to democracy as "The tyranny of the majority." So it is with the mental health field as well. In time this will change. Meanwhile? Be aware enough not to parade it down main street.[;)]

Bobkgin -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:17:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi This is something I've thought about for years and years. The 'no limits' thread brought it once again to the forefront of my mind. I like being 'abused.' I like being slapped, and choked, and used sexually for my man's pleasure. I like being told that I'm nothing without him, and that I exist to please him. I do have limits, yes, but I genuinely enjoy activities that are considered abusive by the world as a whole. I'm sure most of you are reading this and thinking, so what? That's just your kink. Your kink is fine, my kink is fine, our kinks are all fine. I wish I could believe that just as badly as I wish I could believe Christ died for my sins and I will go to a place called heaven when I die - I really really do. But I can't. I wonder, why do I have this 'kink' and is it truly sane? I'm going to ignore the actions themselves because they take two consenting people, and focus only on my thoughts. Is thinking "I like to feel violated, but that's okay because it's my kink" any different than saying "I like to fantasize about children, but that's okay because it's my kink"? And if people are hesitant to use the law as a judgement (because BDSM is considered illegal by the law, and insane by mental health standards) then what IS the paradigm of judgement? I'm not asking if my kink is "okay" because that's subjective. I'm genuinely wondering, does this kink make me insane? Is it a product of mental illness on my part, in the same way that mental illness causes people to cut themselves, bash their head against walls, or take their own lives? Is the sexual turn on actually a symptom of a deeper problem rather than the root of the kink itself? And I'm wondering, does anyone else have these thoughts? I'm not talking about a little spanky spanky that leads to orgasm for both of you, I'm talking about a deeper level of D/s dynamic where there is a craving to be abused. Not for an orgasm, not for endorphins, but enjoying the fact that someone will slap you and make you cry. Enjoying the feeling of powerlessness, helplessness, and actively searching out a 'victim' role. I'm not looking for pat answers of "it's okay if you enjoy it" or "its just a kink, don't judge yourself" - this question has been in my head for years and it's not going to heal with a mental bandaid. If anyone wants to explore this idea with me further, I will be very grateful. There is really only one person who can answer that: you. You can ask the vanilla shrinks and the people who work the women's shelters: they'll tell you you're crazy. You can ask the kinksters: they'll tell you you're okay. Going to either is just another way of being told what you want to hear. And neither matters. What matters is what you think, and how you feel.

kiyari -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:19:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Well, the good news is there is that old saying of "If you were insane, you wont know you were insane". Personally, I lust to inflict emotional, psychological, and physical pain and desire to Own another human being. Tears fuel me with powerful energy and the thought of cutting someone and watching them whither makes me hot. I like to beat, punish, flog, whip, hurt, pull hair, make the girls cry, degrade, humilate, and most of all control. Owning someone and using them for my pleasure tends to make me even hotter. By all social norms, I am demented. However, I do know two things. 1. I am a good and ethical person 2. I cant explain or change these things about me. So....I'm okay with all that. Yikies! Dear Sir/Master 'Bunnie': from whence the 'rabbit' in thy moniker??? Genuinely curious about that [:)]

MadRabbit -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:22:30 PM)
I enjoy paradox

submittous -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:30:12 PM)
When Iris was doing her graduate degrees in psychology she found herself and us in the DSM 3 (yea, showing our age). It was a short term crisis for us too. What we or anyone else here thinks of your sanity is of no concern, we can reassure all we want but the person who matters is you and your opinion really is important to your long term mental health. We'd suggest you work through your concerns with a kink friendly therapist or sexologist. There are resources available from lots of places to find one, the only caveat we would have is be sure you find one who is kink friendly and kink aware/knowledgable. Many therapists are totally clueless about alternative sexualities and capable of doing lots of damage rather than being helpful. For what it is worth we doubt you have a problem except maybe your acceptance of who you are, but do go get some help in understanding it all with a professional, that is what they are for. Good Luck Bill and Iris

Redoubt -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:44:57 PM)
nah. They thought people who believed the world could be round were nuts once... we've come further than we care to admit sometimes... still... can't... quite.... get... rid... of... moralrightijits tho. They should operate under our guidlines...they can do what they want, as long as I don't get to see it... squick.

IrishMist -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 7:54:45 PM)
No one is 100%, verifiably sane. Personally, I would wonder why anyone would want to be. Sounds kind of like a boring life to me. I learned more during my periods of 'insanity' than I ever would have otherwise.

Bobkgin -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 8:15:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: submittous When Iris was doing her graduate degrees in psychology she found herself and us in the DSM 3 (yea, showing our age). It was a short term crisis for us too. What we or anyone else here thinks of your sanity is of no concern, we can reassure all we want but the person who matters is you and your opinion really is important to your long term mental health. We'd suggest you work through your concerns with a kink friendly therapist or sexologist. There are resources available from lots of places to find one, the only caveat we would have is be sure you find one who is kink friendly and kink aware/knowledgable. Many therapists are totally clueless about alternative sexualities and capable of doing lots of damage rather than being helpful. For what it is worth we doubt you have a problem except maybe your acceptance of who you are, but do go get some help in understanding it all with a professional, that is what they are for. Good Luck Bill and Iris May I suggest consulting with friends and family first? I have a healthy disrespect for the mental health sciences. But I have three good friends I've known for over 25 years. All of them are aware of my lifestyle, none of them share in it. They're all working class, down-to-earth, relationship-oriented people. Good people. Normal relationships with normal people who know of my life and lifestyle reassure me I've not left planet earth. [;)]

slavepassion1 -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 8:31:41 PM)
I have wondered the same thing for many years. I'm a therapist and have knowledge of several kinks. I have often wondered "was there something that made me this way?" I also worked in jails and prisons in the past where I met many easy to get along with people who will be incarcerated for the rest of their lives because they crossed that thin line between safe, sane and consensual and illegal. It is a good question and one that we can all answer differently. It is interesting how we came to realize we have whatever particular kink we have. At this point I'm still interested in doing research to find out more about this issue, but I am also at the point personally where I think "I don't care how it came to be...that is that way I am and as long as I'm not hurting anyone in the process it's all good".

Sexynmentalinkc -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 8:32:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi Is the sexual turn on actually a symptom of a deeper problem rather than the root of the kink itself? I think you hit it with this (which is hard to say, not actually knowing you). I didn't read the entire thread but it seems like your body's reaction and arousal are, as we now know, coming from the release if endorphins and peptides that govern mood. And they occur in the same place in the brain (pleasure and pain, that is). So, part of this may simply be the chemical reaction you have and your conscious/unconscious reaction to it. The reaction, at this point, may well be Pavlovian. However, they surely didn't start that way. The start of your perception of what was happening is key. So, as you suggest, I think you have to dig for the root of where this began. One bad experience where you unconsciously tied pain/anxiety to a loved one or some 'loving' relationship wouldn't be surprising. Perhaps it was an early reaction that getting pain caused you to gain attention. Just as small children often manipulate their parents to get attention by acting out, crying or other behavior...something in your past taught you that receiving (or applying) this type of situation on yourself garnered attention and 'love'. Just my 2 units of your local denomination, tips his hat - Mr. S

CuriousLord -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 8:48:33 PM)
It's a beautiful question, xoxi, and well stated. While I haven't read the thread just yet, I'm assuming answers aren't exactly complete. This would follow the form I've seen in human thought. What is insanity? Too many definitions, far too colloqual. I perfer to adopt definitions which cause a word to approach a more absolute concept than a transitory one, such as accepting insanty as a specific set of things defined by a governing body. To this end, I would suggest one to seek what is it that thought serves the function of. What ends are our thoughts to bring us to? Consistent thought patterns contrary to this- the ends and purpose of our thoughts- would be insanity. What ends do we seek? As life, or things which exist due to their reproductive and growing nature, we likely seek existence. Working under this assumption, should not thoughts, an expensive biological function, not serve to cause us to continue living and reproducing? To this end, it would seem we can conclude that it's likely for this lifestyle to be insanity if it contradicts continued existence, primarily in reproduction, and, to a lesser degree, our own life. How do we decide if this lifestyle is conductive to our continued life (to include reproductive considersations)? This part's the hardest to tell. There are things that, when taking this into consideration, I've found so many finding difficulty in understanding even simple things- such as TV being conductive to our life by entertaining us, which, to some degree, may be helpful. What, exactly, is the best ends for us? That's hard to tell. Regardless, I have not found this lifestyle to promote difficulty in the reproductive process. Rather, I find it rather secure, in ways, as good romantic, M/s relationships, in my experience, have been stable to an extreme. This empiracle observation is not to a magnitude to warrant a scientifically-based conclusion, yet I do find it likely that this lifestyle is not insane. To the contary, it seems productive; should it not cause too much social friction which would hinder one's ability to live and reproduce to a surficient degree, it is likely that this lifestyle could be concluded to be sane.

TNstepsout -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 8:49:44 PM)
No, I don't think it means you are insane. I think it's part of our nature to need structure and order in our lives. For some people we find that order by being the one who needs to direct and put things in order. For others it's the need to have parameters defined and a purpose established. The experience of being overpowered establishes the feeling that a strong enough power exists to properly control, contain and define you. That brings a sense of well being and excitement. For strong willed people this level of force has to be greater.

Bobkgin -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 8:50:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavepassion1 ... but I am also at the point personally where I think "I don't care how it came to be...that is that way I am and as long as I'm not hurting anyone in the process it's all good". That's easy for a submissive/slave to say. But d/m's don't get to use that reasoning. Sanity is a very real concern for the ethical d/m, because it significantly affects the validity of the consent. I can't say "I'm not hurting anyone" if they are bound and flogged. I can say I am hurting someone who has consented to it, but how valid is the consent if we assume only crazy people would give it?

Celeste43 -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 9:23:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UR2Badored However, I dont think an illness is an actually illness, if the cure is social acceptance. For example: Hysteria was a common diagnosis for women at the end of the 19th Century. Once it was not socially accepted as a diagnosis, viola! disease cured. Really? I thought hysteria ended once tight corsetting ended. Because women couldn't get enough air in during fight or flight situations. And the definition of paraphilia is not whether or not it is common in your society but whether or not it prevents you from handling daily life. So having a fondness for women's shoes that means you walk past a shoe store during lunch hour is not a paraphilia because you can go to work, have lunch, and get back to work on time. But if you miss work to fondle a shoe, can't leave the window of the shoe store in time, spend all your money on shoes and can't pay the rent, that's more likely to qualify.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 10:00:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi I apologize, I was speaking of my own experience with that problem. I didn't mean to imply all cutters have the same motivation any more than I'm trying to imply everyone into D/s has the same motivations. I truly wish you well <3 to face something and over come it. Is Something to feel good about knowing you beat a bad monkey. It can be a evil circle of hope less cold lost dark places. It just goes to show you greatness comes from with in It truly takes courage to stand up and not follow crowds or trends

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 10:02:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Fast Reply to No One "There is no proof that people with unusual sexual fetishes or desires are any less functional than other people. Instead, there is considerable evidence that as a group, kinky people are in the mainstream: stable, middle class family people who maintain careers and participate in their communities. In other words, they are socially functional, which is a standard of psychological normalcy." - Dr. Gloria G. Brame, "Come Hither" in rebuttal to the fallcy of "People with Kinky Desires Have Psychological Problems" It is Only that way when it becomes OCD then there is a problem

domiguy -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 10:23:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi This is something I've thought about for years and years. The 'no limits' thread brought it once again to the forefront of my mind. I like being 'abused.' I like being slapped, and choked, and used sexually for my man's pleasure. I like being told that I'm nothing without him, and that I exist to please him. I do have limits, yes, but I genuinely enjoy activities that are considered abusive by the world as a whole. I'm sure most of you are reading this and thinking, so what? That's just your kink. Your kink is fine, my kink is fine, our kinks are all fine. I wish I could believe that just as badly as I wish I could believe Christ died for my sins and I will go to a place called heaven when I die - I really really do. But I can't. I wonder, why do I have this 'kink' and is it truly sane? I'm going to ignore the actions themselves because they take two consenting people, and focus only on my thoughts. Is thinking "I like to feel violated, but that's okay because it's my kink" any different than saying "I like to fantasize about children, but that's okay because it's my kink"? And if people are hesitant to use the law as a judgement (because BDSM is considered illegal by the law, and insane by mental health standards) then what IS the paradigm of judgement? I'm not asking if my kink is "okay" because that's subjective. I'm genuinely wondering, does this kink make me insane? Is it a product of mental illness on my part, in the same way that mental illness causes people to cut themselves, bash their head against walls, or take their own lives? Is the sexual turn on actually a symptom of a deeper problem rather than the root of the kink itself? And I'm wondering, does anyone else have these thoughts? I'm not talking about a little spanky spanky that leads to orgasm for both of you, I'm talking about a deeper level of D/s dynamic where there is a craving to be abused. Not for an orgasm, not for endorphins, but enjoying the fact that someone will slap you and make you cry. Enjoying the feeling of powerlessness, helplessness, and actively searching out a 'victim' role. I'm not looking for pat answers of "it's okay if you enjoy it" or "its just a kink, don't judge yourself" - this question has been in my head for years and it's not going to heal with a mental bandaid. If anyone wants to explore this idea with me further, I will be very grateful. There is really only one person who can answer that: you. You can ask the vanilla shrinks and the people who work the women's shelters: they'll tell you you're crazy. You can ask the kinksters: they'll tell you you're okay. Going to either is just another way of being told what you want to hear. And neither matters. What matters is what you think, and how you feel. Nonsense!....We need someone to identify the crazies of this land...Of course that person would have their hands full for years just to identify the majority of the people who post here on CM... Let the crazy people determine if they are in fact crazy? No way! Crazy attracts crazy....This is one way to determine if you are fucking nuts....You may not be able to see it inside of yourself, but if you are seeing someone and you think that they are crazy....Trust me, go check into the nearest psych ward....you are probably a raving loony as well. Just because you like to be fucked harder than Jesus on the cross doesn't mean that you are dipped in bat shit....Now if you like being fucked hard, have rape fantasies and attend sca functions welcome to the Haldol hall of fame. Most of the peeps out here are wacked....Not a guess...It's a fact...As one of the most sought after wackedologist on the planet....I assure you, that while in most cases to accurately determine the level of one's psychosis an autopsy is often the only reliable tool...I have concluded with just one fuck and blow job....I can accurately diagnose just how much of a misguided miscreant you are and save you the pain and embarrassment of an autopsy.

laurell3 -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/20/2007 10:40:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi This is something I've thought about for years and years. The 'no limits' thread brought it once again to the forefront of my mind. I like being 'abused.' I like being slapped, and choked, and used sexually for my man's pleasure. I like being told that I'm nothing without him, and that I exist to please him. I do have limits, yes, but I genuinely enjoy activities that are considered abusive by the world as a whole. I'm sure most of you are reading this and thinking, so what? That's just your kink. Your kink is fine, my kink is fine, our kinks are all fine. I wish I could believe that just as badly as I wish I could believe Christ died for my sins and I will go to a place called heaven when I die - I really really do. But I can't. I wonder, why do I have this 'kink' and is it truly sane? I'm going to ignore the actions themselves because they take two consenting people, and focus only on my thoughts. Is thinking "I like to feel violated, but that's okay because it's my kink" any different than saying "I like to fantasize about children, but that's okay because it's my kink"? And if people are hesitant to use the law as a judgement (because BDSM is considered illegal by the law, and insane by mental health standards) then what IS the paradigm of judgement? I'm not asking if my kink is "okay" because that's subjective. I'm genuinely wondering, does this kink make me insane? Is it a product of mental illness on my part, in the same way that mental illness causes people to cut themselves, bash their head against walls, or take their own lives? Is the sexual turn on actually a symptom of a deeper problem rather than the root of the kink itself? And I'm wondering, does anyone else have these thoughts? I'm not talking about a little spanky spanky that leads to orgasm for both of you, I'm talking about a deeper level of D/s dynamic where there is a craving to be abused. Not for an orgasm, not for endorphins, but enjoying the fact that someone will slap you and make you cry. Enjoying the feeling of powerlessness, helplessness, and actively searching out a 'victim' role. I'm not looking for pat answers of "it's okay if you enjoy it" or "its just a kink, don't judge yourself" - this question has been in my head for years and it's not going to heal with a mental bandaid. If anyone wants to explore this idea with me further, I will be very grateful. There is really only one person who can answer that: you. You can ask the vanilla shrinks and the people who work the women's shelters: they'll tell you you're crazy. You can ask the kinksters: they'll tell you you're okay. Going to either is just another way of being told what you want to hear. And neither matters. What matters is what you think, and how you feel. Nonsense!....We need someone to identify the crazies of this land...Of course that person would have their hands full for years just to identify the majority of the people who post here on CM... Let the crazy people determine if they are in fact crazy? No way! Crazy attracts crazy....This is one way to determine if you are fucking nuts....You may not be able to see it inside of yourself, but if you are seeing someone and you think that they are crazy....Trust me, go check into the nearest psych ward....you are probably a raving loony as well. Just because you like to be fucked harder than Jesus on the cross doesn't mean that you are dipped in bat shit....Now if you like being fucked hard, have rape fantasies and attend sca functions welcome to the Haldol hall of fame. Most of the peeps out here are wacked....Not a guess...It's a fact...As one of the most sought after wackedologist on the planet....I assure you, that while in most cases to accurately determine the level of one's psychosis an autopsy is often the only reliable tool...I have concluded with just one fuck and blow job....I can accurately diagnose just how much of a misguided miscreant you are and save you the pain and embarrassment of an autopsy. He does have a good point, if you are crazy, most of us are too....what's the point in asking crazy people if you are crazy? [&:]

xoxi -> RE: What if I am insane? (9/21/2007 3:02:35 AM)
Heh. That is true. And I suppose my reaction to his post identifies me as insane - what sane woman would refuse to fuck the brilliant domiguy [8D] Bob - that's exactly why I was focusing on the thoughts alone and not the actions - the actions take 2 people yes, but to say 'you're not crazy if the other person consents' is irrelevant if they're crazy too and I wanted to avoid circular logic. Sexynmentalinkc - That's exactly what I've been trying to do! I wonder if it's a natural reaction as an infant to want to recieve the 'mothering' or parenting instinct that is more likely to come out when a child is helpless. And my parents were definitely the type who wouldn't do anything for me unless I literally couldn't do it myself so I wouldn't be surprised if it stemmed from a coping technique that baby me figured out a long time ago [8D] Which still makes me wonder - should I accept it or fight against it? submittous - I definitely agree -- therapy is certainly in order as soon as I can afford it :P For more reasons than this...mostly being able to come to terms with things in my past and how they're limiting me right now. I just wonder if self-acceptence is always the best route, you know? SunNMoon - very interesting questions...if I didn't have this desire I don't know if I would be any happier, but I think relationships would be easier if I didn't require it. I don't actually believe I'm nothing without a guy, and that makes it even more confusing why I would want someone to tell me that. teamnoir - I honestly don't know if knowing that my desires were insane would make me want to change them. Like Aqua said, sometimes it's best to let someone be happy in their delusions. I still haven't decided if having these desires is a 'good' or 'bad' thing...I can't decide if its something I would actively fight yet. Anyway my mind is totally processing this stuff right now...thank you all for the replies...and for taking the question seriously. I obviously can't learn to 'accept' myself until I'm convinced that what I'm accepting is in fact something I should accept, you know?

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