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RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 7:20:59 AM

RRafe

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And let's also put it this way-no one ever gives a bad refference of themselves-ask around instead.

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RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 7:45:58 AM

LadyXtine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire
This isnt a job, . . . . .

And for me I approach it more as a job than a relationship so of course I ask for references and I give mine when requested. I suppose it has to do with the fact that I'm not particularly looking for love in a slave, I'm looking for functionality.

First off, don't ever give someone as a reference unless you've asked them first! You call your friend and say, "someone would like a reference on me, would you mind providing one and how would you prefer that this person contact you?" If they're your friend they don't mind doing this!

And let's be sensible, in the big, bad, vanilla world references are not about who you've loved before but simply a list of your friends and isn't it important to have friends? And if you're interested in someone don't you want to know their friends too? And isn't it important to have friends? What does it say about someone who has no friends that you're allowed to talk to?? To me it says something scary.

And just like in that world mentioned above, no one is going to give you a reference from someone who doesn't like them because it they do, they're dumb and run away from them quickly.

I ask for references all the time and I always contact them. I prefer to contact them on the phone because that's a lot harder to 'forge' whereas it's pretty easy to create a bunch of online identities. I asked a potential slave from London for a reference and he put me in contact with a friend in Texas so geographics or local community is hardly the point for me, either.

In a nutshell, I want references because I like to know that someone has friends, is willing to let me into their lives a little bit and is not an isolationist.

The way I insist that people check my references is the most effective way I know of for someone who is not a 'private player'. I have them go to the largest Yahoo group in Southern California and ask about me. "Lady Xtine has asked me to check her references. Can anyone in this group who has offline experience of her provide them?" Many can, will and do. But this also gives the folks who don't like me the opportunity to speak up too (although, to their credit, they never have).

This is my two cents but you can have it for free.

Lady Xtine
*complete with references, two dogs and a few slaves*

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Post #: 22

RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 8:05:08 AM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
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FR

Although my Master is very experienced he has never played in public and never attends munches etc. He met his last long time slave (his wife) on the internet and they were together for over 8 years. When I met him online we chatted and then progressed to meeting. We talked about all sorts of things during our online and real life meetings and got to know each other that way. There would have been no way for him to provide me with a reference (his wife is dead), so should I have assumed he was not a "real" Dom becuase of that?

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RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 9:09:00 AM

LordODiscipline

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First:
It would depend on the reason for meeting and how the arrangement was made

If it were a possible partnership (romantic or business), then that would be significant and would require the most stringent consideration for me.

If that was the reason for meeting, I would definitively ask for references.

They would not HAVE to be BDSM/Leather/MOUSE references - not everyone has them.

However, if a business interaction, then they ought to have business references... if personal interaction/romatic - everyone should have personal/romatic references readily available.

There is no reason why they could not do this.

If they are private and secretive, then they should not be out in public seeking personal interaction at that level.

The fact is: References being provided is not all about what the reference says about that individual - it is also the quality of the person who is used as a reference - and, what they DO NOT or WILL NOT say about the person being referenced for.

As far as references -
I would weigh them the same as any other tool to decide on that person... how I (personally feel about them, how other people react/feel about them, what I know of their dealings from watching and listening, etc)

It is a tool to make a determination - no more no less.

~J
Who assumes that people reading this understand that this is what "I" do - and, will not behave as though this is directed at or to them and will act accordingly.

(I do find it interesting how many people get violently upset when this subject is brought up in forums)

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RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 9:24:43 AM

chellekitty

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i figure if you can't provide a reference then you can't fault me for wanting to meet you with 20 to 30 of my closest friends a lot of whom carry concealed weapons, though most of them are not firearms........and if you don't want to meet me there, you don't want to meet me that bad...

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RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 9:46:46 AM

LordODiscipline

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I'm wit chew on dat, goil!

~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

i figure if you can't provide a reference then you can't fault me for wanting to meet you with 20 to 30 of my closest friends a lot of whom carry concealed weapons, though most of them are not firearms........and if you don't want to meet me there, you don't want to meet me that bad...

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Post #: 26

RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 9:57:32 AM

chellekitty

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not that any of them would use those weapons on you unnecessarily...unless you asked them too...(trying to ease the noob's minds)

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Post #: 27

RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 10:44:58 AM

OriginalStuff

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pj decided to pose this question to the message boards to get a broader range of questions, and responses not fueled by a heated debate tossed out in a chat room.

The chat room scenerio quickly went ugly because one individual chose to attack a group of people enjoying an evening of nonsense chat by insisiting the Dommes in the room weren't real because they did not feel it was necessary to provide references to just anyone so they could "talk" to that person. It went further downhill when the word "real" was tossed out into the discussion.

A comment about references being provided by a Professional for services was made, but as far as personal relationships, written references were not the "norm".

"References" being those made by others within the BDSM communities and not so much getting to know mutual friends and forming an INFORMED opinion of a person as a whole. Groups I belong to are 1) not public and require membership to post to their message boards.... doubtful they will just sit and click "accept membership" to allow people THEY DO NOT KNOW in to ask about one of their members (who's giving THEM a reference to join "our" group?) 2) The munches I attend are located in a public place and if I were talking to someone..they could certainly meet Me at said munch and get to know not only Me, but My friends as well.

When I was seeking, I took the time to get to know someone for who they were. Had someone approached me with a list of references, I would have wondered why they felt it was necessary to have someone "vouch for them". As if they couldn't do it on their own?

For a casual play partner or for someone considering a Professional...yes, check that person out. For a personal relationship...take the time to get to know them and their friends. Now, if they don't want to let you meet their friends. Run like hell.

OriginalStuff
a "real" Dommes with references but instead of calling them...come have dinner with us as a group and form your own opinions. And yes Chelle, you can bring your friends too lol (pj perked at "weapons")

since someone else mentioned the critters....
3 dogs, 8 cats, 1 ferret and one very spoiled pj

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RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 12:01:29 PM

iammachine

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I think references are handy, but not 100% reliable.

I tend to use them as a means of jump starting a negotiation process, and will offer to provide references if a new friend/potential play would feel more comfortable with them.

There's a hitch, though. What and who constitutes as reputable? In my case, I can whip out the card of an international title holder as a character reference - but someone that isn't familiar with that part of the community may not be familiar with him, so how much weight does that reference carry for them? The issue is compounded in local communities, where someone might have a shining reputation in their back yard - but if the person wanting the reference is not fromt that region, how are they going to know that person is reputable, as opposed to some buddy that's willing to put in the good word?

I, personally like references as a tool in addition to getting to know someone. The fact that someone has references available, to me, signifies that they are at least somewhat known in whatever community I'm looking at. I don't care about who's who in that regard - but what I do care about, is the fact that if they are at all known in the community, that means they probably haven't done anything to get ejected from it. Having references means you have nothing to hide.

Which leads to another problem. What about people that are new to the community, or are not "out"? They may not have references, or a reputation. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have anything hide, they just may not have anything to show, either. In that case, I can't fault the person for being new, or not being "out" and involved, I just need to take more time to get to know them.

So, for me, references aren't about a strong BDSM resume, though that of course doesn't hurt. I just think that they're handy dandy, and if I feel I can trust the source, they may speed things along a little bit for me.

< Message edited by iammachine -- 9/22/2007 12:03:35 PM >

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RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 12:24:35 PM

Satyr6406

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Okay, I'm an oddball. We all know that but, if a lady asks me for a reference, I take her to the karaoke bar that I've been going to for about 7 years.

There, she'll find out that I have plenty of "friendly associations", I have been known to know my share of ladies (negative point), I don't get drunk, I'm level-headed and even tempered, and I have a bit of an ego that karaoke helps me feed/sate.

If that isn't good enough, she needs to look, elsewhere because I'm not here to impress anyone or jump through their hoops.

I don't ask for "references". I'm pretty good at figuring people out.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: references required? - 9/22/2007 10:42:58 PM

chellekitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginalStuff
3 dogs, 8 cats, 1 ferret and one very spoiled pj

holy crap monkeys....
what is this runion time....
LOD is on this thread. now OS Ma'am and pj...how the heck are ya'll....totally didn't click when i saw pj's nickname....but how many "OriginalStuff"'s are there out there with very spoiled pj's...and all those critters...i can't send out email on CM but i can recieve email on the other side and send out email on yahoo....hint hint...lol...

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RE: references required? - 9/23/2007 10:05:19 AM

OriginalStuff

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Satyr

I just love Your ASS statement woooohooooooooooo god isnt that the truth.......

OS

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RE: references required? - 9/23/2007 10:37:18 AM

came4U

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quote:

Is he going to give me his ex wife's number and she'll say he's a great guy? No, because if she felt like that she wouldn't be an ex.

yep, I would. All of my ex's of any importance (even the father of my children) are important to me as mentors and part of my life. A marine, a cop (now city liason) and an investment analyst. If a guy cannot meet them and pass the test of being 'fit' for me and us as a family...he is not fit for me at all. If my ex's think he is a moron, he is GONE. I place high regard towards them, even though it didn't work out. You can tell a lot about a person from their ex's. If a guy has 7 nasty ex's, maybe it isn't her, it is HIM. lol

So far, very few dates have met my ex's, those that did, failed to impress him. Frankly it is hard now and I will not embarass myself any further by having them interact within a shorter timeframe. Since they have found wonderful spouses now, they all know my 'type of man' specifications and somehow disagree but once they meet them, these men of high esteem become disgusted that such men of lowly means claim to be dominant in any fashion (mentally, physically or financially). So now, it is like choosing a man to impress 3 fathers. The impossible. lol

Yep! that means family bbq's with my ex, his fiance and others. Yep, that includes vacations with them. They are good people, we get along and do not want an immature sh*t disturber. They hope I find a real man, not a pinoccio.

I would hope, if he were a decent man that his ex spouse/children and others are invited too. No drama. If not, something is wrong.

< Message edited by came4U -- 9/23/2007 10:44:29 AM >

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RE: references required? - 9/23/2007 11:07:30 AM

YourhandMyAss

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I was considering someone once, and I asked in collar me chat does any one know so and so, and a woman said I do and he's a stalker and has herpee's, and he terrorized me and threatend me after I broke up with him. Well now it could of all been here say but his behavior towards me later did indeed get kind of creepy, and manipulative. I broke it off with him because of something else, but in this case, the refernce made a diffrence yes, she alerted me that this guy was whacked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

For people looking for relationships I have absolutely no understanding of why a reference from another person in the life would have any significant effect.

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RE: references required? - 9/23/2007 1:09:48 PM

subiugo

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Maybe we must make a difference between two situations:

One situation is where you are seeking to fulfil one of your preferred fetishes, and there is some danger involved in 'applying' the fetish. Then you have a quite narrow relationship, and it is just 'one step' to get to know each other, fine tune about the fetish and then having done something to you that can harm you. Then a reference can be on the safe side.

The other situation is were you meet someone, there is a kind of mutual attraction and a willingness to engage in a D/s-relationship. Then you go step by step, and your 'gut feeling' is the best reference you can have. It is the beauty of relationships that they can change people. So a 'bad reference' in one relationship doesn't mean anything in another relationship.

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RE: references required? - 9/23/2007 1:42:04 PM

littleone35

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I did not ask Master for references because i did not need them. I have very good intuation and in my (almost 38) years it has never been wrong. I am not stupid though i talked to him on the phone for a month and a half then wenw we met over the couse of 3 days talked for 16 hours so with my intution and all the talking i did not need references.

Matt's littleone

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RE: references required? - 9/23/2007 3:09:45 PM

Archer

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A few well stated but seemingly overlooked statements paraphrased:

References need not be from Ex's (counters the entire Ex's argument set pretty well)

Introduce them to folks from your regular/ vanilla freinds groups. (See the reference can be as basic as the opinion most of the folks at the local watering hole have formed over the years)

The person mentions they are a member of XYZ group I contact XYZ group and see about their reputation within that group. (Counters the you're not going to get anything but possitive pre selected opinions).

References are NOT NOT NOT the be all end all of finding out about the person, they are ADDITIONAL INFORMATION that might be available.
When looking at someone for a serious commitment Mor Information is almost always better than Less Information.

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RE: references required? - 9/23/2007 3:37:07 PM

eyesopened

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

A few well stated but seemingly overlooked statements paraphrased:

References need not be from Ex's (counters the entire Ex's argument set pretty well)

Introduce them to folks from your regular/ vanilla freinds groups. (See the reference can be as basic as the opinion most of the folks at the local watering hole have formed over the years)

The person mentions they are a member of XYZ group I contact XYZ group and see about their reputation within that group. (Counters the you're not going to get anything but possitive pre selected opinions).

References are NOT NOT NOT the be all end all of finding out about the person, they are ADDITIONAL INFORMATION that might be available.
When looking at someone for a serious commitment Mor Information is almost always better than Less Information.

Excellent points! If asked, i could provide names of folks with whom i have not played or had a relationship with who do know me or at least have some association with me. They would vouch for my not having any negative reputation. There are a couple of people i have met, played with briefly and we agreed to remain friends and meant it. We are still friends. i would gladly supply references for them and they for me.

But like the majority of others, i don't ask for references because frankly the opinion of a stranger holds no real meaning for me. My wonderful, fantastic, handsome, stirs my heart and holds my soul, Dominant isn't a member of any group and came to me with no references. i was very lucky to form my own opinion based on my own point of view, needs, wants, desires and personality. How someone fits with one person is no basis for how they will fit with another.

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RE: references required? - 9/23/2007 4:06:32 PM

camille65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

Is he going to give me his ex wife's number and she'll say he's a great guy? No, because if she felt like that she wouldn't be an ex.

yep, I would. All of my ex's of any importance (even the father of my children) are important to me as mentors and part of my life. A marine, a cop (now city liason) and an investment analyst. If a guy cannot meet them and pass the test of being 'fit' for me and us as a family...he is not fit for me at all. If my ex's think he is a moron, he is GONE. I place high regard towards them, even though it didn't work out. You can tell a lot about a person from their ex's. If a guy has 7 nasty ex's, maybe it isn't her, it is HIM. lol

So far, very few dates have met my ex's, those that did, failed to impress him. Frankly it is hard now and I will not embarass myself any further by having them interact within a shorter timeframe. Since they have found wonderful spouses now, they all know my 'type of man' specifications and somehow disagree but once they meet them, these men of high esteem become disgusted that such men of lowly means claim to be dominant in any fashion (mentally, physically or financially). So now, it is like choosing a man to impress 3 fathers. The impossible. lol

Yep! that means family bbq's with my ex, his fiance and others. Yep, that includes vacations with them. They are good people, we get along and do not want an immature sh*t disturber. They hope I find a real man, not a pinoccio.

I would hope, if he were a decent man that his ex spouse/children and others are invited too. No drama. If not, something is wrong.

I have given myself as a reference for my ex husband. We were married 17+ years, have been divorced just over 2 and we are each others best friend. In fact he spend the weekend at my [previously 'our'] home.
We couldn't be married to each other because he hasn't a dominant nor kinky bone in his body. Of course there are other reasons but that huge gap in our needs not being met with each other really was biggest detriment.

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RE: references required? - 9/23/2007 9:44:06 PM

came4U

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Camille that is most impressive! You must be great person that he enjoys your company, still.

I find it suspicious when others don't or cannot socialize with previous lovers/spouses or talk badly about them. If kids are involved even more sad.

Friends are ok for a reference but no one knows a guy behind closed doors like a former spouse. Friends only know his 'public' side. Groups? never.

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