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Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 9:13:01 AM

grlneedstolearn

Posts: 728
Joined: 1/29/2007
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Ok, this is going to sound like a vent and i apologize.
So i have been looking at and trying to find reasons why "training someone" is looked down and frowned upon. For someone who is training with a Dom/Domme but does not want a full relationship with him or her, whether it be full time without living with each other or 24/7, is that sub or slave looked down upon as well as his/her Dom/Domme? i am actually in that scenario right now, training with someone that i do not want to be with forever, but he was the first that i made contact with after numerous messages and chatting with others. We have gotten along great and i know that every Dom is different and so is their training methods. But for someone to just basically learn the basics, i'm a hands on person and can not just go into a bdsm club watch somone do it a few times and be like,"ok that is what i want to happen to me." Because in the end i may or may not like it. i've also learned to overcome some of my fears and anxieties and i know that's a good thing. And most of you will probably disagree with this and that's ok, and some may agree. Since i'm thinking i'm not the only one in the boat with learning basic training through someone who they are not going to live with or be with forever. i'm happy with my situation but once i find my own Dom that i can relate to as far as age and interests both in this lifestyle and out, then at least i'll have the basic knowledge to apply to him. If it's a special name that i need to call him, talking with him everyday, etc. i'm just trying to figure this whole thing out as to why people don't take to others with training with someone else well. Any input on this to possibly help me understand would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

Post #: 1

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 9:17:40 AM

Pyrrsefanie

Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
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See, the way training works in my twisted li'l head... every Dom or Domme is different in their preferences and will train a sub accordingly. So if you train with one person and then end up in a relationship with another, you'd essentially have to be re-trained. You're talking about learning "the basics," but really it seems like all you'd be doing is experimenting with different play styles and figuring out which ones you like and which ones you don't like.

I'm not trying to be snarky or say that you're wrong or anything though, opinions are like emotional baggage, everyone's got 'em...

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 2

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 9:38:51 AM

grlneedstolearn

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Joined: 1/29/2007
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i do agree with you on the different play styles that one person is learning and i know that i'd have to be retrained to match the other person's teaching methods. Your not being snarky in anyway and i do appreciate your answer. Basics i mean as far as kneeling, doing ritual tasks when he's not around, how to address him, etc.

(in reply to Pyrrsefanie)

Post #: 3

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 10:02:41 AM

Pyrrsefanie

Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
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So basically, you're training to get yourself into the HABIT of doing these things, kind of getting used to it... mmkay mmkay, excellent point then, actually.

That'd make it easier for when you do find Dom(me) Charming, then... you'd be going in with at least some experience so that when they tell you to do something you don't give them a look like 'Huh?'

I think some people can feel squicky about training with a -- forgive me but I can't think of any other way to say this -- temporary Dom/me just because BDSM does tend to require a good deal of affection and trust. There are those who would say that it's a trust and love you can only find with the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. But to be honest, even if you know your current Dom is not the one for you, you still must respect and care about him as a person to be able to follow his orders. Obviously he's a good person if he warrants your trust. All the bases are covered, so I say more power to you!

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 4

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 10:15:28 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Define "training someone"

Define "the basics"

Until you do that, I have no idea what you are talking about. Most people get into "training" when they really mean "Do kinky stuff together without feeling threatened that it's this big relationship thing"

As well, a lot of people just chafe at the whole concept of training, this I don't really understand. I find training an laudable thing to be well versed and adaptable towards for everyone- shows great discipline.

When I train someone- I train their mindsets and long term behavioral habits. Training for me has nothing to do with kink.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Pyrrsefanie)

Post #: 5

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 11:54:45 AM

grlneedstolearn

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Joined: 1/29/2007
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LA, it's what Pyrrsefanie says. Basic training for me consists of learning the and getting into the habits of learning basic things that i will be able to carry over into the next relationship. Kind of like what i said before: how to kneel, address the person, getting into the habit of getting prepard for punishments, learning how to do simple tasks when he can't be there to directly give them to me, etc.
Training someone i see it as: Teaching someone who is brand new to get over their fears, (if this applies to a person who has had a bad past with guys or females through abuse, tormnet, etc.), to gain more hands on insight, to know and learn new play ideas, (role play, wax play, floggings, obediance-addressing someone, etc). This is how i see it. And i hope this helps clarify some confusion

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 6

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 5:07:03 PM

ElvesUK

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Joined: 8/28/2004
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I have to admit to wishing for a better definition of the terms. To me it just sounds like enjoying play with people to better understand yourself and your desires. You train a pet to carry out a specific behaviour, in play we prefer diversity to uniformity.

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 7

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 5:28:05 PM

DCroommate

Posts: 29
Joined: 2/7/2007
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There are a lot of places that offer "training" and it seldom has anything to do with personal preference skill..

Folks are right that each Dominant will train their girl or boy to do things the way they want them done.

Most good training locations/houses/Doms are not worried about how you fold the sheets or serve their coffee as if you will do that forever with every Dom you serve. They are more focused on working with your attitude, acceptance, role acquisition, ability to accept change and training, self examination and desires.. They might offer some skills that are not normally found in the vanilla world such as valet service, boot blacking, formal dinners, tea service.. but most usually offer more intellectual training then skills.. Play and sex often have only a small part of a formal training program.

Training is the not the same as hooking up with a Dom/Top who says he will train you and then just wants to play/beat/and sexually use you and calls that training..

~ann
slave-mate to Griffin,
Majordomo to Castle Griffin

(in reply to ElvesUK)

Post #: 8

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 5:32:20 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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I really don't understand this training thing.
I mean if I kneel, it's kneeling to whomever I am with. It's a direct response to them not a mechanistic thing I learned to do. Actually I don't really ever remember learning to be submissive. I was submissive when I was in a vanilla relationships and I suspect it got missed, or over looked, or misinterpreted or those failed vanilla relationships were with other subs and so it got nowhere.
I am not invalidating what anyone is saying here. I think it's all valid and training is a valid concept for some. Now learning a particular skill, like with cling film, or rope or edge splay with needles and knives...then that I would consider needs a training period.
I mean is it so called Old Guard...I suspect it is, to have the right terms of deference and exact dress codes. But if there is a written (overt contract) or unwritten (covert contract) between a d and a s then it is always individualistic and personal chemistry.
if you are so called training then all you are doing is carrying the idea that it is going to be finite with this person and you are going to take the skill onto another and into another dynamic.
One could train for a role but not for a disposition. No-ones ever trained me to hit the deck crawling or to subvert my gaze, or to run up and downstairs balancing well-prepared food on a tray in the middle of the night or to say goodbye and never know when He's going to want me again. These things are not in the manual, wherever that is...............

xxxx

(in reply to ElvesUK)

Post #: 9

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 5:32:43 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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Only once in my life did I successfully train someone for another person -- tried a second time and ended cause I frankly wasn't feeling anything that was enough motivation on my end.

That first gentleman was a success as far as I'm concerned though I'm not sure his wife/mistress was completely happy to get back a slave who could actually say what he liked and wanted instead of just suffering silently. I did warn them both though that I don't train robots, I train submissives to be good slaves and that, in my opinion, requires thinking and speaking up both.

Now if someone just wants training or a test relationship to see "does this Ds thing or slavery really work for me?" hey, if you both go into with your eyes wide open and aware it can be useful. I know that folks I've trained but did not go on to own became some of coolest and most active scene folks in their local communities. They always have told me years later they learned a lot. Always makes my day, heck my week or month, to hear that.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 10

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 6:14:10 PM

SexyBlackMan2

Posts: 108
Status: offline

I agree with some of the other posts in that it may present a dilemna. Since you don't have a Dom, you may have a need to feel the ownership or Mastery that comes with a relationship. However, the experience could lend itself useful if the person training you has your interests at heart. Then you won't be as much of a novice when you find the right Dom. But, as a Dom who has had experienced slaves, I have always had to go through a period of retraining.

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 11

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 8:31:44 PM

grlneedstolearn

Posts: 728
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DCroommate

There are a lot of places that offer "training" and it seldom has anything to do with personal preference skill..

Folks are right that each Dominant will train their girl or boy to do things the way they want them done.

Most good training locations/houses/Doms are not worried about how you fold the sheets or serve their coffee as if you will do that forever with every Dom you serve. They are more focused on working with your attitude, acceptance, role acquisition, ability to accept change and training, self examination and desires.. They might offer some skills that are not normally found in the vanilla world such as valet service, boot blacking, formal dinners, tea service.. but most usually offer more intellectual training then skills.. Play and sex often have only a small part of a formal training program.

Training is the not the same as hooking up with a Dom/Top who says he will train you and then just wants to play/beat/and sexually use you and calls that training..

~ann
slave-mate to Griffin,
Majordomo to Castle Griffin

Thank you, i was obviously having a hard time explaining this

(in reply to DCroommate)

Post #: 12

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 8:34:39 PM

grlneedstolearn

Posts: 728
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline

Yes he does have my interests in his heart first and foremost. Though there have been times when he's pushed my limits and i've enjoyed and appreciated it. And also yes, i am wanting ownership eventually when i find the Dom that is right for me.

(in reply to SexyBlackMan2)

Post #: 13

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 8:47:33 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: grlneedstolearn

LA, it's what Pyrrsefanie says. Basic training for me consists of learning the and getting into the habits of learning basic things that i will be able to carry over into the next relationship. Kind of like what i said before: how to kneel, address the person, getting into the habit of getting prepard for punishments, learning how to do simple tasks when he can't be there to directly give them to me, etc.
Training someone i see it as: Teaching someone who is brand new to get over their fears, (if this applies to a person who has had a bad past with guys or females through abuse, tormnet, etc.), to gain more hands on insight, to know and learn new play ideas, (role play, wax play, floggings, obediance-addressing someone, etc). This is how i see it. And i hope this helps clarify some confusion

well...honestly...these things are things are things that would be specific to your partner...so...if i may....let me give you some thoughts and ideas....
1) if you want to play...just do it...you don't need any kind of special kind of relationship to do this, but you can have one if you want...sometimes the best way to explore bdsm play is to do it with someone you would not have a relationship with.... a gay man with a woman...a lesbian with a man...a sub with a sadistic top sub (lol)...
2) an area that a lot of s-types seem to find a need for themselves to fulfill is to serve, and when they are single a good place for then fo fill that need is within the community, volunteering where ever they need help...its not about the prestige, its about being of service where they need it...and as you get to know people, you can learn more and find those things that interest you, like boot blacking or tea service or toy making or educating or valet service or manicures and pedicures or whatever trips your trigger...
3) don't stop reading and looking and learning...you don't *need* a specific person to teach you what you *need* to know...theres a whole "community" though scattered we may be, waiting to teach what was so eagerly taught to us, you seem to be on a good track...don't loose this enthusiasm...good job...

good luck....
chelle

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 14

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 8:55:13 PM

grlneedstolearn

Posts: 728
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline

Thank you chellekitty, from some of the negative talk that training another person is wrong, your perspective helps me out in understanding it. Like i've said before to, i know that when i find the right Dom for myself that he will have different methods of training or whatnot. As long as i have some ideas about what to expect i'll be alright. At least i won't be going in "blind" and not knowing what to expect to some degree.

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 15

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 9:07:22 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

some...not all...but some use the term "training" to be able to use a submissive without committing to them...i have met both...there are real people...but on the internet you tend to find the users more than the real...and even i, with all my experience...ignored a lot of red flags in my last relationship attempt...so....live and learn?

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 16

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 9:43:14 PM

apiercedkitty

Posts: 569
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline

One of the first Doms i met after deciding to investigate this lifestyle was someone that i knew wouldn't be a permanent fixture in my life. We did, however, see each other for almost a year and a half. During that time, He taught me many things. i never considered that i was being "trained" in general - just that i was learning some aspects of the lifestyle - and how to do things His way. i don't think there's anything wrong with "playing" with someone whom you don't see yourself with forever - just know that things that He likes might not be how the next Dom likes things.

_____________________________

normal is a setting on a washing machine...

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 17

RE: Training with someone else - 9/22/2007 10:12:02 PM

KiandPhoenix

Posts: 205
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

If you are looking to be trained for just some fun that is one thing, but being trained to say serve me, by learning from someone else is not going to get you any idea of what I want you to do.

quote:

how to kneel, address the person, getting into the habit of getting prepared for punishments, learning how to do simple tasks when he can't be there to directly give them to me, etc

When I got with Phoenix she knew how to kneel properly. Only thing is that I didn't care for the position and how I preferred her to kneel was different. Took her months to break her habit.

How to address someone is different in each situation. Some people want you to start and end every sentence with their preferred term, while others only ant it at specific times. I am never to be addressed by a title while in front of children. In addition my "title" is "My Lord" not Sir or Master. Call me master in front of kids and watch how fast I have to get you out the door. I can't have that around them, and have no time to break you of that habit.

Punishments vary greatly from person to person. Getting ready for a physical punishment in my house will leave you wanting. I don't do a beating to punish, only to reward. How to get ready for me can only be learned from dealing with me.

What simple tasks? The things I want and need done while I am not in my home are totally different than in my mothers home or my brothers home, or in any home for that matter. Do you learn to put the toilet paper roll on with it going over the top or under the bottom? What if your next master wants it the other way? How much of a problem is it going to be to break you of that basic training? There are so many nuances that differ from person to person, that learning even the basic things can be an issue.

My family lays carpet for a living. When I started out, I went with my uncle. The first week was hell, but by the seconded week I was a better partner than any other professional he worked with, and we could do in four hours what it took him and another professional eight or more to do. The reason is that the other person would do things their way and things would clash. I was trained to do it his way, and we fell into pace fast.

Again, if you want to have some fun, then enjoy it, but expect to have to forget basically everything when you start over with someone new.
~Ki

(in reply to apiercedkitty)

Post #: 18

RE: Training with someone else - 9/23/2007 12:10:38 AM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
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I am not as anti this sort of "training" as some. I think there is a place for a new sub to experiment with bsdm and so discover what they do and don't like, what their limits may or may not be, and what kind of partner they are ultimately going to be seeking. This could be accomplished by playing at parties with a succession of casual partners ... but that may or may not be feasible or the safest method depending upon a sub's circumstances. If a sub has been lucky enough to find a caring Dominant, who knows this sub isn't necessarily "a keeper" but cares enough to initiate them responsibly into the world of bdsm without just using them ... then the sub has the benefit of learning with One they come to trust, knowing that they have an ally when it comes to transferring to a new partner when the time comes.

I do take the point that specific behaviours are probably not helpful as it can be hard to unlearn these in the future. For example, if I am working with a newbie sub, I inform them that while some Dominants like the "eyes down" rule, others don't, so I am not going to particularly train them either way. My main interest is in exposing them carefully to different types of play activities so they have a better idea of what they do and don't like and how it makes them feel. And I try to inculcate the mind and attitude of submission through extensive education and reading. I want them to reach the point at which they can make an informed consensual decision about their future and I don't believe they can do that from a position of ignorance and naivety.

From My reading of the OP, it seems maybe some of the behaviours are a bit specific, but overall, it sounds as if the Dominant simply wants to give her a safe environment in which to explore, and that's fine by Me! I get rather pissed off when anyone who enjoys working with new subs is immediately cast into the role of "evil predator" ... some of Us born teachers get sufficient kick out of the education process to not be remotely interested in damaging someone for kicks!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to KiandPhoenix)

Post #: 19

RE: Training with someone else - 9/23/2007 5:39:34 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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The problem is the word "training" when i think most often what "training" and "basics" really means is finding someone to provide experiences in certain activities. There isn't a good word for that situation so i think folks just use the word "train" because "provide experience in some common BDSM activites" is just too much to say.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to grlneedstolearn)

Post #: 20

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