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Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 5:08:37 PM

probablyknowme

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Joined: 9/19/2007
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Hi y'all. (yes I'm from Oklahoma

) I was doing some journaling the other day, and started to think about the differences in D/s and M/s. While I identify myself and my role in this lifestyle as a submissive painslut, I have been told that I am a bottom rather than a submissive. Now when I first found that there were other people who liked and did this thing we do, I did a lot of research. As a result of what I read I was under the impression that the word "bottom" had a negative connotation. i.e. girl scenes with several Tops/Dominants "She's such a bottom!" said in a dirisive tone.

I think I am confused and would appreciate some help in clarifying these terms.

thanks,
kat

Post #: 1

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 5:16:22 PM

DCroommate

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Joined: 2/7/2007
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Bottom is use to refer to the person who is on the receiving end of a play scene..
Top is the giver in a play scene..

Tops and Bottoms are usually just for the scene.. not for a relationship..
Dom and sub is more about the relationship power exchange

Neither top or bottom have to do with your power exchange or relationship.. case in point: Master Griffin, is a Top but also likes to bottom sometimes.... i am His slave but i have been know to Top someone now and then.. (usually fun stuff or sensations, not much into giving out pain) He is still a Master even if His enjoys a bottoming scene.. and i am still His slave if i am waxing someone..

submissive is someone who is in a role with someone where they take the submissive (duh!) side and give up a negotiated amount of power to the other person..

Neither is a bad term or negative connotation.. they just help to identify who and what we are..

(in reply to probablyknowme)

Post #: 2

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 5:42:25 PM

BoiJen

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You can be just a top...you can be just a bottom...you can be a submissive top or a Dominant top you can be a service top. You can be a dominat bottom a submissive bottom and a service bottom...there's a wide variety of different combonations that describe people...some people feel that being just a bottom is negative. I persoanlly feel whatever you do for you and you enjoy doesn't really concern me or anyone else other than those your'e involved with.

Says the servant-boi-bottom-masochist-service-top-daddy-sadist

(in reply to DCroommate)

Post #: 3

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 7:42:47 PM

glycerine

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Most of the time, I find that these are all subjective terms anyway. I refer to myself as a bottom, Sir laughs and says I am submissive. As long as you are comfortable with what you call youself, well that is really all that matters.

I wouldn't say that the term bottom is negative per se, moreso it is a reflection of how it is used.

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Post #: 4

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 7:53:17 PM

RRafe

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I like bottoms. Less cling generally-they are more honest about just liking kink............no catholic guilt that insists on dressing it up as "sacred." Some happen to have submissive personalities,others are about as submissive as a Mack truck. As long as they were real-and avoided playing games with me-we got along fine.

Subs on the other hand, were needy and demanding for the most part. I didn't get along with their lists of expectations and rules-I felt more like a slave than I did with my first Domme-way back when. So when someone starts rattling off the castle realm routine to me these days.." I just wince and think "good lord, another lunatic-just....go.....away..........."

That's my mileage-I'm sure yours varies.

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RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 8:47:52 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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People prefer clean boxes.

People never actually fit into clean boxes.

You can be both a bottom and a sub, you can be both a sub and a masochist.

A lot of people DO use the term bottom as "less than" a sub and a sub as "less than" a slave.

It's crap and the reasonable people all know better.

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Post #: 6

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 8:52:13 PM

chellekitty

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my box is over flowing...cause sometimes i am a bottom-sub-slave-servant-masochist-kitty-little-girly-girl...and i don't want a bigger box....they will make me pay more for storage...

*sticks her tongue out at LA for leaving early and just ending up at home on the computer...(hehehe...i know what would have made it even better with the laying on the ground sideways...a black and white filter..)*

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Post #: 7

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 8:52:55 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

A lot of people DO use the term bottom as "less than" a sub and a sub as "less than" a slave.

Many such individuals may mean that a bottom is "less submissive than" a sub which is "less submissive" than a slave. I do not see how you could disagree.

I fear too many mistake the quality of submission with an individual's value, mistaking bottoms as less valueable than subs, etc.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 8

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 9:04:02 PM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

A lot of people DO use the term bottom as "less than" a sub and a sub as "less than" a slave.

Many such individuals may mean that a bottom is "less submissive than" a sub which is "less submissive" than a slave. I do not see how you could disagree.

I fear too many mistake the quality of submission with an individual's value, mistaking bottoms as less valueable than subs, etc.

And some make such an issue over power-that they forget about people entirely.

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Post #: 9

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 9:07:49 PM

MiladyLily

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the language you use simply reflects the values you have. i don't see that as a 'mistake'.

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 10

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/22/2007 9:17:36 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MiladyLily

the language you use simply reflects the values you have. i don't see that as a 'mistake'.

How so?

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Post #: 11

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/23/2007 3:20:40 AM

probablyknowme

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Joined: 9/19/2007
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Hi y'all

So, what y'all are saying is don't sweat it right? I mean, as long as I am aware of my own motivations and needs blah blah blah... It took me quite a while to accept the word painslut, I'm not sure if I can get my brain around bottom too.

says the submissive-masochist-bottom-housemaid-painslut-slut-puppy-with Top fantasies...oh goodness, I should shut up now huh?

pssssst...I thought this quote was funny

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(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 12

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/23/2007 9:21:26 AM

HollyBlue

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Joined: 9/13/2007
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My understanding is that a bottom is someone who enjoys being dominated and/or subjected to pain and/or humiliation for their own pleasure, and a submissive is someone who enjoys those same things but is a bit more focused on the pleasure of the Dominant, Master, or Top.

One example would be: My Master loves to beat my inner thighs. And although I enjoy many kinds of pain, I hate having my inner thighs beaten. I derive no intrinsic physical pleasure from it. However, I derive a ton of emotional pleasure from it, as well as sexual arousal, because I know it pleases and arouses my Master so much to do it.

I believe I am both a bottom and a submissive. If I were a bottom only, and not also submissive, I would probably negotiate scening so that my Top did not beat my inner thighs much, or might safe out at some point, or I might choose a Top who did not like to do that particular thing, or other things I don't enjoy.

Another example would be that I am very good at deep-throating, and have worked hard to get to be so. I continue to work hard to be even better. Nevertheless, I hate deep-throating. I find it unpleasant, as it requires extreme concentration to let go of the need to gag, while stimulating my Master's cock as well as I possibly can, keeping my teeth off of him as much as I possibly can, and resisting the increasing panic caused by lack of air.

Despite the fact that I hate deep-throating, though, I do it multiple times every day. I work to stay down longer and longer, because I know that it pleases my Master enormously, and his pleasure is, ultimately, at least as important, and usually more important, to me than my own.

I also think his desire to repeatedly shove his cock down my throat is also what differentiates him as a Dominant/Sadist/Top from another kind of Top. He derives pleasure intrinsically from making me do what he knows I don't want to do. He derives intrinsic pleasure from causing me pain (but not from causing me lasting or permanent harm).

Don't know if everyone would agree with these definitions, but it's how I understand it the best.

I also believe that no one thing is any better than another. There is nothing wrong with being a bottom but not a submissive, and BTW, contrary to what an earlier poster said, not all "submissives" are whiny. It sounds like most of the submissives he has encountered are brats, which is a separate issue entirely.

Anyway, I think what matters, far more than what one is, is knowing how to find one's match. A very submissive bottom will probably not be totally satisfied with a Top who does not push her limits, whereas a bottom who is not very submissive will probably struggle with and have conflict with a Top who wants to constantly push her limits. Whatever you are, find your match, and you'll be okay, IMO.

Just for fun, the other day someone posted a link to an OK Cupid test (geared toward women) to see if you are a bottom or a sub. Of course, I have no idea as to the credentials of the test's creator, or the real significance of the results, but it's still fun:

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/11747945660806295159/female-submission

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(in reply to probablyknowme)

Post #: 13

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/23/2007 6:22:04 PM

ImpGrrl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Many such individuals may mean that a bottom is "less submissive than" a sub which is "less submissive" than a slave. I do not see how you could disagree.

Because it's not always, or even "generally", true.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 14

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/23/2007 7:08:07 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Many such individuals may mean that a bottom is "less submissive than" a sub which is "less submissive" than a slave. I do not see how you could disagree.

Because it's not always, or even "generally", true.

People are entities in constant flux. I get a bit pissy when folks seem to think they can be classified as constants-that's just irrational. And ignores the reality of humanity.

You really CAN take objectification too far.

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Post #: 15

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/23/2007 7:16:58 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

A lot of people DO use the term bottom as "less than" a sub and a sub as "less than" a slave.

Many such individuals may mean that a bottom is "less submissive than" a sub which is "less submissive" than a slave. I do not see how you could disagree.

I fear too many mistake the quality of submission with an individual's value, mistaking bottoms as less valueable than subs, etc.

And some make such an issue over power-that they forget about people entirely.

Mmmhmmm....

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(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 16

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/23/2007 7:21:10 PM

chellekitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
You really CAN take objectification too far.

but i CAN be a foot rest 24/7....my knee won't start to hurt after 20 minutes, and i won't have to go pee after an hour and a half, and i won't get hungry after 3 or 4 hours.................

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 17

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/23/2007 7:23:24 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
You really CAN take objectification too far.

but i CAN be a foot rest 24/7....my knee won't start to hurt after 20 minutes, and i won't have to go pee after an hour and a half, and i won't get hungry after 3 or 4 hours.................

And people wonder why a "twue slave" needs diapers.

They feel a bit crinkly under the feet-but the furniture can stay in place through the entire football game...........What convenience!

See why the whole "no limits" thing is SO important?

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 18

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/23/2007 7:28:57 PM

chellekitty

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Joined: 3/27/2005
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or you can just put a litter box between my legs

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 19

RE: Bottom vs submissive - 9/23/2007 7:31:25 PM

RRafe

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Joined: 8/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

or you can just put a litter box between my legs

What?

And deal with her going out of position? Heaven forbid-she just goes and changes the diaper at half time.

It's supposed to be all about the master in fantasy land-right?

< Message edited by RRafe -- 9/23/2007 7:34:48 PM >

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

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Post #: 20

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