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How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 1:26:55 PM

joshslave111

Posts: 19
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

Hello A/all.

So after years and years of searching both on and offline, I've decided to expand my search to the vanilla world for "the One".

I have no problems getting vanilla dates so perhaps it would be easier this way.

After a number of dates with a woman, I'll wait for the conversation of sex to come up. Then I'll drop a few small hints here and there and I usually find that the reaction pans out like this:

75% are totally uninterested in any form of BDSM at all.
25% are curious but want to be submissive.

I'm wondering if I'm just not going about it the right way. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to best bring up the subject?

Keep in mind, I'm looking for a relationship not just casual play. Casual play is easy to find.

Post #: 1

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 2:06:39 PM

james2Jay

Posts: 15
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline

for me, the best advice is proactive. Find a sub girl into pleasing you.

change yer profile to "Dom" and train a sub girl to top service you. They listen better than the dom ladies.

of course, what pleases you may be hard to figure out for a submissive girl but the sub girl wants to please you, so it shouldn't be too hard for her to follow your orders and figure out what works and what doesn't work for your tastes getting yourself dominated.

(in reply to joshslave111)

Post #: 2

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 2:38:08 PM

Laura

Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

I think someone like jamesjay should just keep paying for it.

If you want to find a Dom woman talk to women. Go to local events. I don't think you should consider women vanilla or not. Someone could enjoy Domming but not call it that or not like to think of themselves as into "that stuff". Find the person you want to be with and then see what you have in common.

_____________________________

Bait & Switch - Adult column

(in reply to james2Jay)

Post #: 3

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 4:20:23 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: james2Jay

for me, the best advice is proactive. Find a sub girl into pleasing you.

change yer profile to "Dom" and train a sub girl to top service you. They listen better than the dom ladies.

of course, what pleases you may be hard to figure out for a submissive girl but the sub girl wants to please you, so it shouldn't be too hard for her to follow your orders and figure out what works and what doesn't work for your tastes getting yourself dominated.

This wont ever work... Sure you could find a submissive woman and get her to top you from time to time. The simple fact is, she wont ever be dominant, at least not naturally, therefore you wont ever be submissive. All you will be in this type of relationship is pulling the strings.

(in reply to james2Jay)

Post #: 4

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 4:32:51 PM

MySweetSubmssive

Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline

I think he was being tongue in cheek ...

MSS

_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 5

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 5:08:09 PM

joyinslavery

Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

'Vanilla' is the way to go brother.

Assuming of course you're comfortable with and can move easily within the 'vanilla' dating scene. I think most here can't.

Best of luck!

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to joshslave111)

Post #: 6

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 5:09:37 PM

james2Jay

Posts: 15
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: james2Jay

for me, the best advice is proactive. Find a sub girl into pleasing you.

change yer profile to "Dom" and train a sub girl to top service you. They listen better than the dom ladies.

of course, what pleases you may be hard to figure out for a submissive girl but the sub girl wants to please you, so it shouldn't be too hard for her to follow your orders and figure out what works and what doesn't work for your tastes getting yourself dominated.

This wont ever work... Sure you could find a submissive woman and get her to top you from time to time. The simple fact is, she wont ever be dominant, at least not naturally, therefore you wont ever be submissive. All you will be in this type of relationship is pulling the strings.

hey now, I thought that's what most of the "subs" secretly do and demand around here anyway: to get to pull the strings with their dominas?

< Message edited by james2Jay -- 9/23/2007 5:12:27 PM >

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 7

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 5:21:53 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

Josh I think you need to weigh just how important BDSM is to you. If you get into a relationship with someone not interested, someone you hope will grow the interest then what you are doing is setting both of you up.
You can't force someone to be dominant or submissive, hoping that they will suddenly find that within themselves because 'you' need that just won't work.
There is a strong possibility of you growing to resent them because you have a need within yourself that isn't being met.
It isn't fair to go into a relationship with the hope they will change. I actually see it as beginning something with false pretense.

Sure it can happen but what would you do if it didn't?

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to joshslave111)

Post #: 8

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 5:57:50 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I agree with politesub, I'm not interested in topping my dominant. I would not beinterested in someone who was submissive, but calling themself a dominant to manipulate me into topping them. And yes lieing about your orentation is manipulation in my book.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: james2Jay

for me, the best advice is proactive. Find a sub girl into pleasing you.

change yer profile to "Dom" and train a sub girl to top service you. They listen better than the dom ladies.

This wont ever work... Sure you could find a submissive woman and get her to top you from time to time. The simple fact is, she wont ever be dominant, at least not naturally, therefore you wont ever be submissive. All you will be in this type of relationship is pulling the strings.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 9

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 6:05:50 PM

joshslave111

Posts: 19
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

Thank you for the honesty everyone. Keep in mind, I'm not thinking of dragging on a relationship and then one day handing her a collar asking to put it on me. I've been going on mostly vanilla dates (if I could go on lifestyle dates I would, though even at events here Dommes are few and far between) lately and if I really click with the person, then I'll tell them.

Just wondering if there's a better way to break it to them than I have been.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 10

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 6:08:21 PM

BlackKnight

Posts: 767
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

How to educate a vanilla woman: BRAINWASH!

_____________________________

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284"
George Santayana

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get me!

(in reply to joshslave111)

Post #: 11

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 7:26:23 PM

LadyLynx

Posts: 1098
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline

Well recently I had posted in my profile on a vanilla site about some of my BDSM interests. And currently in touch with a guy who is cautiously interested. so yes actively looking in the vanilla world can work. That being said, I think your best bet is to continue looking in the BDSM community. Go to play parties,munches,classes/workshops. it will take time, but worth it.

_____________________________

Our community maybe openminded as a whole, but it is still made up of individuals who bring in their own opinions,baggage and agendas!

Known as SwitchWitch in my local community,and on IRC Bondage.

I also go by the nic SwitchWitch on MDS.

(in reply to BlackKnight)

Post #: 12

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 9:45:04 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

There are more Dominant women out there than people know. The trouble is our backwards society has brainwashed them into thinking that its not a good thing. Nothing could be further from the truth

If your going to try to introduce a vanilla woman into the wonderful world of Femdom, the best way to do it is to find someone who is open minded, assertive and wants to be pleased by a man. Also she has to have some interest in BDSM or some form of kinky sex, if she doesn't then your barking up the wrong tree.

I know a few "submissive" women who are anything but submissive. They want to experience the sensations, the attention and therefore qualify more as bottoms to my way of thinking.

Good luck,

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to joshslave111)

Post #: 13

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 10:40:07 PM

subiugo

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline

i am a believer in Female Supremacy. This means i believe 'all' Women are dominant and should be encouraged to take up Their dominant roles. Present day society suppresses this natural tendency for dominance in Women. So, it is a great job for men who understand their submissive position to 'wake up' the dominant feelings in a Woman who is not yet aware of it.

The main question for you should be: what is 'in it' for a gorgeous Woman to be dominant? A straightforward answer could be: the knowledge that She is served by the submissive male in every need She has. Most probably, Her sexual needs are not the first She thinks of. It starts with small things like holding the door for Her, taking Her coat, not discuss Her choice of movie... If you behave 'submissive' in these day to day issues, She will quiete naturally learn to be dominant (because She feels it works...). And if you are lucky, She will become more dominant in sexual play too.

If being a 'Dominatrix' is sexual play is not Her cup of tea, well, so be it. As a submissive male you have to accept it. The fact that you prove to be a slave to Her real needs as She defines them must be a reward for you.

subiugo
proud to serve and to worship Supreme Goddess Lorena of goddessclub.com

(in reply to joshslave111)

Post #: 14

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/23/2007 11:20:04 PM

Aimtoplease101

Posts: 319
Joined: 2/8/2006
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

There are plenty of seemingly vanilla woman out there who are either "closet" dominants or, once exposed to the D/s dynamic, become dominant. I've met a few dommes who initially "learned the ropes" as a sub, and then realized their dominant streak. I've also had the pleasure of introducing some "vanilla" women to D/s, and some of them have oriented as dommes.

The thing is, until you introduce the dynamic, you don't know how the woman will react, whether negatively, positively as a sub, positively as a domme, or as a switch. You can make some guesses based on their external personality, but those are just guesses and one's D/s orientation can differ from one's vanilla environment temperment.

You may want to read some of the advice by Elise Sutton and other femdom writers about how to introduce a woman to a femdom lifestyle.

From a behavioral perspective, there's much you can do in the form of service to send the message that you want to submit. Chores, unfailing politeness, unsolicited foot rubs, bringing beverages, etc., will usually elicit an appreciative response. You can use that to initiate a dialogue about how you like doing things for her, how it excites you to see her pleased, how much you enjoy treating her like a queen.

Sexually, of course, you can send a lot of messages by what you do. Massages, prolonged oral worship (if she enjoys it), woman on top positions, etc., can send the message that her pleasure is paramount to you, and that you sublimate your own to her enjoyment. Provide verbal feedback and encouragement when she touches you-- especially your nipples, genitals, or ass. Tell her how much you enjoy being her plaything. If she has dormant tendencies, these cues may awaken them.

Some women may need you to first introduce D/s explicitly. This is sometimes easier to do if you play the dominant role. Tie her up and gently tease her, play with her nipples, suckle her, tickle her feet gently. Talk about it later, and ask if she'd like to reciprocate and try tying you up, and express how you'd enjoy that. If she takes you up on it, be very encouraging and responsive-- positive feedback can do wonders.

Watch movies together that have little bdsm intimations in them. React positively to those. Drop a few double entendres in a playful manner, and see if she follows up on them.

Don't push it. Don't rush it. If she's dominant, let her discover it on her own schedule, on her own terms.

Sound like topping from the bottom? Maybe a little, at first. But if you find the right lady, she'll take over the reigns herself eventually. Surrender them gracefully, and submit.

Sound like a lot of work? It can be. That's why finding a woman who already knows she's a domme, and describes herself as such, can be a lot more appealing. But given the numerical imbalance, it may be harder to find a domme with whom you mesh on all the other levels and issues that are necessary to make a relationship work in the bigger pool of the vanilla world.

Good luck.

ATP

_____________________________

Pleasing you pleases me.

(in reply to joshslave111)

Post #: 15

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/24/2007 5:45:42 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

If you can still find this video/DVD find it and watch it.

"Whipsmart: A Good Vibrations Guide to Beginning SM for Couples"

Try the Good Vibrations website to see if they still sell copies of this. I think it has to be the best introductory movie I've ever seen that is honest and helpful for folks trying to introduce kink into their lives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joshslave111

Thank you for the honesty everyone. Keep in mind, I'm not thinking of dragging on a relationship and then one day handing her a collar asking to put it on me. I've been going on mostly vanilla dates (if I could go on lifestyle dates I would, though even at events here Dommes are few and far between) lately and if I really click with the person, then I'll tell them.

Just wondering if there's a better way to break it to them than I have been.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to joshslave111)

Post #: 16

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/24/2007 6:49:52 AM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear Josh

Seriously, you live in the largest city in the US.. and one with the MOST active BDSM scenes and you cant find dominant women.. clearly you are not trying hard enough. In two minutes here is a list of BDSM sites in NYC

http://www.paddlesnyc.com/main.html

http://www.queensmunch.org/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCmunch/

http://www.tes.org/

TES is the largest and oldest BDSM organization in the United States.. please at least attempt to become involved before you whine that there arent any Dominant women out there.

SD

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 17

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/24/2007 8:05:43 AM

flowspen

Posts: 133
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Memphis
Status: offline

i have been down this road your seeking to venture into. You may find vanilla women who have an iterest in BDSM and you may even be able to get some of them to be interested if they are not. The only problem i ran into is that for 90 percent of them it was merely an interest. They had no interest being in a BDSM relationship rather they wanted the vanilla dream. Once time went past and they realize you want this as part of your life things begin to fall apart. To me most of the Vanilla world is submissive when it comes to women and unless they have a Dominant hiding inside i feel you will be spinning your wheels with little success. There are a few Vanilla women i have introduced this lifestyle too and some even loved some parts of it yet in still therer soul was not into it. So for a little play on the side it was fine but as a full blown relationship it has its problems.

i found it better to join the local BDSM clubs/community and network. At least there you know they have more than an interest in the lifestyle. i wish you luck!

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

Post #: 18

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/24/2007 4:23:22 PM

joshslave111

Posts: 19
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

Silverdawn

Thanks and I am very active in the local scene. I'm a member of both TES and MAST and go to a large number of DomSubFriends meetings.

The problem isn't finding a dominant woman, the problem is finding a dominant woman I'm attracted to, have something in common with and is looking for more than just casual play.

Hence, why I've expanded my search to the vanilla world.

(in reply to flowspen)

Post #: 19

RE: How to "educate" a vanilla woman. - 9/25/2007 7:52:48 AM

SlaveSubtoserve

Posts: 282
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Laura

I think someone like jamesjay should just keep paying for it.

If you want to find a Dom woman talk to women. Go to local events. I don't think you should consider women vanilla or not. Someone could enjoy Domming but not call it that or not like to think of themselves as into "that stuff". Find the person you want to be with and then see what you have in common.

....very good advice as i have found that to source a number of truly Femme Domme relationships that lasted over the years as we had common vanilla interests to help things along--- and i think there are many closet Dominant women who don't even realize they are in a closet until you open the door for them and invite them out to play... and give them permission and encouragement that its ok and even great.

(in reply to Laura)

Post #: 20

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