RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Polls and Other Random Stupidity

[Poll]

Has tasering run-a-muck


yes!
  40% (9)
No
  50% (11)
who is this?
  9% (2)


Total Votes : 22
(last vote on : 11/1/2007 7:57:10 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


scifi1133 -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/23/2007 11:48:34 PM)

STREET FACTS FROM ORANGE COUNTY
The Sheriff's Office study focuses on 400 cases randomly drawn from some 1,200 force confrontations across a 3-year period. Researchers analyzed the nature of resistance by suspects, the responses used by officers and the outcomes of the events in an effort to determine "the effectiveness of less-lethal weapons systems at the officer level," a subject rarely examined by the academic community.
The research team was led by Dr. Charlie Mesloh, director of the Weapons and Equipment Research Institute at Florida Gulf Coast University, and included Capt. Steven Hougland of the Orange County Sheriff's Office in Orlando, FL.
The findings, reported in the September [2005] issue of the journal "Law Enforcement Executive Forum", published by the Executive Institute of the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board, include the following:
1. Taser was by far "the most frequently used less-lethal weapon" employed in use-of-force incidents. In this study, it was relied upon to stop suspect resistance in 73% of confrontations, compared to chemical agents at 18%, defensive tactics 6% and impact weapons 3%. Bean bag rounds were used only once, in an encounter involving SWAT.
Interestingly, none of the impact weapon applications involved use of a baton, the researchers discovered. Instead, in each case, "a flashlight was utilized in this function as an improvised impact weapon."
In assessing the relative unpopularity of less-lethal options other than Taser, the researchers observe:
--Officers commonly feel that DT techniques taught by their agency are "ineffective against aggressive subjects." Officers who study martial arts on their own--particularly grappling techniques--seem most likely to apply those skills against resistant subjects.
--OC, considered "the cutting edge less-lethal weapon of its time," is plagued by "issues regarding cross-contamination of back-up officers and a growing number of reports that suspects were able to fight through the burning pain."
--Baton configuration has changed in recent years, with "high-visibility nightsticks and side-handled batons" having "gone out of style" and been replaced with collapsible straight batons which, in effect, are "little more than a metal club to be used for striking and blocking….[M]any of the advanced control techniques…possible with the PR-24" are now "difficult if not impossible."
2. "[I]n all cases in which deadly force would have been sanctioned and a less-lethal weapon was used, Taser was the only weapon selected by officers." The researchers conclude that "it is clear that a substantial number of suspects' lives were spared as a result of Taser deployments."
The research data did not reveal, however, "whether officers made a conscious decision to take a more humane approach" (in avoiding deadly force) or the Taser "was already in hand and the time required to transition [to a gun] was too great." Regardless, the outcome was strongly to the suspects' benefit.
3. Officers perceived that Taser is the "only [less-lethal] tool available that has the ability to prevent escape." Overall, "Taser was used to stop fleeing suspects…84% of the time." Other less-lethal options, "such as chemical agents and impact weapons, are generally ineffective at stopping a fleeing suspect" due to distance considerations.
Narcotics offenses are the ones most likely to escalate into use-of-force encounters, the study shows, and 63% of narcotics suspects "originally resisted by taking flight." Across all categories of suspects, "flight was the most common type of resistance" and was encountered nearly one-third of the time.
In terms of active resistance, suspects most often wrestled with or struck officers (27% and 13.5% of resistance respectively). Less than 5% of resistance involved armed suspects threatening or using weapons against officers. Taser was the most frequent less-lethal option used in response to offenders with weapons.
4. A single application of a Taser could not be relied upon to be successful unfailingly. Indeed, Taser was "ineffective" 23% of the time from a single application. However, the researchers point out, "Taser training stresses the use of multiple applications in order to bring a suspect under control."
When deployed a second time, Taser's "ineffectiveness dropped to less than 3%." Then, it was deployed a third time or the officer switched to a different less-lethal option or the suspect escaped, with officers "unprepared to engage in a foot pursuit."
The study notes that successful escape "occurred more frequently" after a Taser failure, "as officers were accustomed to immediate compliance on the part of the suspect and it is extremely difficult to run with a weapon and drag 21 feet of wire and probes."




came4U -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/23/2007 11:53:17 PM)

Studies also showed that training on the tazer equipment was brief and vague. Thus the curiosity of the shooters to want to 'try it out' with gung-ho intent.   




scifi1133 -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/23/2007 11:55:35 PM)

Parolee with ax subdued by taser
Thursday, March 22, 2007

Gail Gilmore

It was a tense 20 minutes last week as half a dozen sheriff’s deputies held off an ax-wielding parole violator.
Two Azle police officers used a Taser electric shock weapon to end the fracas 20 minutes after it started, according to police chief Steve Myers.
At 11 a.m. March 14, Sgt. S.L. Roy of Tarrant County Sheriff’s Office (TCSO) recognized a vehicle and driver as he patrolled Highway 199 south of Azle, according to his supervisor, Lt. Charles Eckert.

Roy stopped the vehicle in the parking lot of a gas station at Nine Mile Bridge Road. Roy verified that the driver, John Ledbetter, 38, was wanted for a parole violation and called for assistance, Eckert said, adding that Ledbetter has a reputation for violence.
When Sgt. Jerry Brown and Sgt. Mike Tosh (an Azle native) arrived, they asked Ledbetter to leave the vehicle.
He came out wielding a long-handled, doubled-bladed ax.
“We did everything short of shooting him,” TCSO spokesman Terry Grisham said. “We used pepper spray, baton strikes, nothing stopped him.
“We don’t carry Tasers,” Grisham continued. “Azle does.

“It saved that guy’s life.”
The deputies took several risks as they attempted to subdue Ledbetter without deadly force, Eckert said.
“Sgt Tosh leaned into the vehicle and took the keys out” when Ledbetter attempted to drive away, Eckert said. “We used almost a whole can of pepper spray on him and an asp (baton) on his ax arm.”
Using the spray and baton brought deputies well within reach of the ax.
“I’m so proud of these guys, at the restraint they used,” said Eckert, who reviewed a videotape of the incident. “There were several times they were justified in using deadly force.”
Eckert said the parking lot afforded deputies room to maneuver and surround Ledbetter.
At one point, civilians in harm’s way were ordered into the store. The store clerk was ordered to lock the door.
The deputies, now including two additional officers, managed to get Ledbetter to the back side of the store and surrounded him with their weapons drawn.
That was the situation as Azle police, Sgt. Bob Jones and officer Billy Thomson, arrived.
Jones had a brief conversation with the deputies “as he arrived,” Myers said this week.
“Then he tased (Ledbetter).”
“It worked,” Grisham said.
All parties contacted this week noted that one brief shot with the Taser resulted in immediate compliance.
“One Taser shot and he was down on the ground,” chief deputy Jay Six said. “Our department showed significant restraint.”
Azle police have seven Tasers, purchased for about $800 each with sales tax revenue collected by the city’s Crime Control and Prevention District.
The weapon has been a part of the Azle police arsenal for about two years.
Using a Taser is “not something we take lightly,” Myers said this week.
“Officers who carry one are re-trained every year. We file a report if the weapon is displayed (but not used) and if it is used,” he said. This was the third time Azle police have used a Taser, he said.
“You hear about the times someone dies” from a Taser hit, Myers said. “You don’t hear of the times like this when probably saved his life.”
“We’ve chosen not to carry (Tasers) because of those stories,” Grisham said of the TCSO. “But we were glad of Azle’s assistance.”




scifi1133 -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:00:15 AM)

I am posting these two articles because all anyone ever hears about is the harmful effects of tasers....yes they can be dangerous and should not be used lightly.....BUT as someone who has used and carries his on a regular basis.....they do serve a very useful purpose and cause a very small risk to the general public....as with anything else it has to be used responsibly but to have a general call of charging an officer with a felony if he hits his trigger more than once while it is deployed is equally irresponsible.
Fact in point the taser has saved alot of lives on both sides of the law......and no i do not agree with using them on mentally ill children and i know of no department that does it....dont get me wrong im sure they are out there I am speaking of personal knowledge.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:01:21 AM)

Whatever she was on, it sure didn't stop her from feeling the pain. I have seen other video clips that were similar, that was just the most recent. This has been going on for some time. The fact that the US government hasn't made a 1 taze law just shows how evil it is. Police get paid leave for non-consentual sadistic torture but consentual bdsm is illegal. Police can get away with almost anything.




came4U -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:05:46 AM)

quote:

I am posting these two articles because all anyone ever hears about is the harmful effects of tasers


Hard to tell if they would/could make mistakes if they had owned and used such equipment (on others) when you are comparing a police force that doesn't have tazers as part of their on-site, escalated danger potential equipment. 

quote:

Police get paid leave for non-consentual sadistic torture but consentual bdsm is illegal. Police can get away with almost anything.
  

No leave was given but a hefty settlement and review of standards. Fine with me, with my apology. 




tsatske -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:05:48 AM)

How dangerous? You said they could be dangerous, so I'm asking. What precautions or limitations would you recomend if someone wanted to play with one?
And as to under trained civil servants being anxious to try them out - I know in the best training programs for mace, they mace each other, so that they will have experienced it once and know what it does and does not do. Should perhaps the same be true of tasering training programs?




came4U -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:10:08 AM)

quote:

play with one?


omy gods. where is that thread on 'gun play turns bad'.

it is not a toy, it is a weapon (possibly lethal).




defiantbadgirl -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:22:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

"Taser training stresses the use of multiple applications in order to bring a suspect under control."
 
 
 
I guess that explains why someone who is already on the ground is tortured over and over again. If one taze doesn't bring every suspect down, I guess I can understand why there isn't a one taze rule. But that still doesn't explain why there isn't a law against further tazing once someone is down. The fact that they stress the use of multiple applications to bring someone "under control" instead of only tazing until the suspect is on the ground shows that police are encouraged to be sick and cruel sadists.





scifi1133 -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:22:52 AM)

in responce to tsat i was hit with pepper spray when i was trained to used it.
i was also hit with a taser as part of our training in the use of the equipment.
different departments have a final say in the use or non use of the taser. itis regulated at the state level not the federal level.

edited to correct spelling mistake




scifi1133 -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:25:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

"Taser training stresses the use of multiple applications in order to bring a suspect under control."
 
 
 
I guess that explains why someone who is already on the ground is tortured over and over again. If one taze doesn't bring every suspect down, I guess I can understand why there isn't a one taze rule. But that still doesn't explain why there isn't a law against further tazing once someone is down. The fact that they stress the use of multiple applications to bring someone "under control" instead of only tazing until the suspect is on the ground shows that police are encouraged to be sick and cruel sadists.



I completely disagree that police are trained and encouraged to be cruel and sadistic. Anyone who thinks that has no idea the amount of paperwork and questioning that goes on when force is used in any situation.




came4U -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:34:44 AM)

quote:

I completely disagree that police are trained and encouraged to be cruel and sadistic. Anyone who thinks that has no idea the amount of paperwork and questioning that goes on when force is used in any situation.


and that paperwork can be used to show liability in court.

The aren't trained to be sadistic and cruel, some were like that long before and use 'non-lethal' weapons as an excuse to over-react perhaps.  If you practiced with tazers, not likely you had more than one zap.  I think it took me 7ish (??) times before I went down.  The count was lost and did not add up because of the loss of one discharge from a battery pack.




ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:38:19 AM)

quote:

completely disagree that police are trained and encouraged to be cruel and sadistic. Anyone who thinks that has no idea the amount of paperwork and questioning that goes on when force is used in any situation.


-Look at the recent Kerry video: 3 officers holding a scrawny college kid down already, and one of them uses a tazer after the kid begs like a baby not to be tazed: how can this be anything but sadistic? And sure paper-work sucks, but it's hardly a deterant from the sudden, violent impulses of people with authoritarian complexs (i.e. that unfortunate and small minority of 'criminal cops'...)




came4U -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:40:50 AM)

weren't those guys campus cops??

thank god campus police have no weapons here.




scifi1133 -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:44:49 AM)

yet again the small minority that you speak of taints every officer in the country...by those standards then every american is a serial killer because of the minorty that are. I  am not cruel or sadistic in my work nor is any other officer I work with.




came4U -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:48:26 AM)

Some are responsible users I am sure..  I am sure there are also many that are not qualified. Hopefully the ratio is leaning towards the 'qualified'. 




defiantbadgirl -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:49:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

No leave was given but a hefty settlement and review of standards. Fine with me, with my apology. 


I must have seen it on a different channel then. All the information they gave about the officer was that he was suspended with pay. The station also showed the interview with the autistic 15 year old that had been tazed. For those of you who don't believe that tazers are used in schools, they most certainly are. This has been highly publicized as well. My son is prone to autistic fits due to  frustration at his inability to speak. I wonder how many shocks it would take to bring him "under control." They may not notice if he goes into a life threatening seizure because they'd be too busy repeatedly tazing him. He's already been duct taped and no attorney would take the case because they didn't want to be a part of suing a school. Even if he did survive being repeatedly tazed, that kind of trauma could make him go inside himself where he would never make eye contact or communicate with anyone ever again. Because of my son's autism, he's in more danger of being tazed than most children are. His autistic fits are caused by his autism. He doesn't know any better and he can't help it.




ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:50:41 AM)

personally, I'm glad cops have tazers-less police officers get hurt in physical fights, and less perps get hurt in the same fights.

But anyone who uses a tazer instead of a gun is a fool-they serve differant jobs. One will probably immobilize temporarily, the other you use against someone deadly. So they arn't really a gun 'replacement' at all.

And I can't see how their much of a 'deterrant' either-if the possibility of leathal knives and handguns in grandma's purse /cops belts don't stop crime, how could a non-leathal tazer stop it?

And anyone who ignores the numerous and growing, documented cases of tazers being abused needs to get their head out of the sand. Unfair represenation or not, these vid's fuel the flames of disrespect for cops like nothing since the war on drugs.

a simple law saying once someone is pinned on the ground they can't be tazed, and that multiple tazings are excessive force, would go a long way to ensuring a perp doesnt become a victim.

-If the tazer doesnt stop someone the first time, why keep reling on it as a weapon? Isn't that just using it as a crutch because its so easy?

-criminal apprehension is a violent thing and sometimes people's agression gets the better of them. And tazers are so easy to use and a tempting outlet for agression...there needs to be laws about how their used just like any other sort of weapon.  




came4U -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:54:23 AM)

I'm a short-shit,105lbs soaking wet.  They weren't initially effective on me.  I never fell officially until the damn biggest guy with the riot sheild was on my entire body.  Why? so that he wouldn't get shocked lol.  I found them lacking in negotiation skills and common sense. Gung ho fools.  All that drama - for NOTHING.




ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Has tasering run-a-muck (9/24/2007 12:58:37 AM)

quote:

yet again the small minority that you speak of taints every officer in the country...by those standards then every american is a serial killer because of the minorty that are. I  am not cruel or sadistic in my work nor is any other officer I work with.


scifi, hope this doesnt end up as cop-bashing or anything-your the one who uses the tool and you're the expert. Any half-functional adult knows the majority of cops arn't cruel and sadistic.

Not every American is a serial killer, but we have laws against serial killers because SOME americans are. Same goes with tazer abuse, some (including private citizens and mall security and god knows who else) abuse them so we need laws.




Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.0625