RE: Gun Play (Full Version)

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RRafe -> RE: Gun Play (9/29/2007 8:18:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterC46910

I have found that a lot of people have a unreasonable fear of firearms.  They know only what they are fed on TV.  They have no real life experience with firearms.  A firearm not the living breathing monster that a lot of people believe it is.  It is only a tool, just like all the dangerous tools in my tool box.  Your neighbor's dog is a lot more dangerous to you then that firearm.

A unload firearm is a lot less dangerous then the saw or screwdriver sitting in the toolbox.  That kitchen knife in your kitchen will cut you in a minute if you are careless in reaching for it.  See any sharp edges on a gun?  You can handle it all day and it will not cut you. 

Just like a drill, don't feed it power and it will not do any damage.  Don't feed a gun bullets and it is nothing  but a piece of pretty metal.


exactly.



DocRudy -> RE: Gun Play (9/29/2007 10:06:17 AM)

Yes, but as was touched on, there's a catch-22 here...

If you take the necessary safety precautions, and your sub trusts you that you do so, the firearm is harmless as a spatula. However, sex play with a spatula isn't the goal, because that doesn't arouse that fear, that thrill.

The way to fix that issue is to remove all the safety precautions from gun play but for "control" of your index finger. But I think most sane people will agree that the concept of doing this with the person you love is hazardous at best, and criminal at worst.

There's a third option as a loophole, and that is keeping your sub "on their toes" and not allowing them to be assured that you either removed the safety precautions or not. But IMO this is stupid, as doing it jeapordizes the trust that you and your partner have together.

-DR



camille65 -> RE: Gun Play (9/29/2007 10:12:10 AM)

DocRudy you hit on the very thing that I was talking about earlier in regards to gun play.

If I trust him enough to know he wouldn't play with a loaded gun then for me it would totally remove the entire adrenaline and fear angle.

Stephann pointed out that I (or his sub) would not know if it were indeed loaded, but I wouldn't be in a position where someone had a loaded gun and had play in mind!

Whew. Thanks.



conquer4love -> RE: Gun Play (9/30/2007 3:13:57 PM)

I am very sorry MrDiscipline44 but I have to disagree with you.

quote:

Oh bullshit!! You are exagerating and you know it. Either that or you don't deal with guns on a real and/or regular basis. I have dealt with guns ranging from a 9mm Berreta upto a 30mm chaingun. They can be made "safe" enough to let a novice handle.


If you take a semiautomatic .22 or .25, remove the firing pin and jack rounds through the chamber the gun WILL eventually discharge. Though the gun may be disabled a live round never is. Now .22 and .25 round are well known for going off due to the fact that the entire rear of the casing is the primer so even a small jolt can cause the munition to discharge. The reason I took the time to bring this up is because the orig. poster did not say what type of weapon they intended to use.

Now I will have to agree with you on this point: A dummy round can be safe assuming the person does not confuse "dummy round" and "blank". Blanks can still cause injury and death.

When dealing with a situation like this I think people should look at the fact that the weapon is of little danger, The round however can be deadly.



ManOfAdventures -> RE: Gun Play (10/15/2007 10:37:16 AM)

I do not condone or recommend the use of a real firearm in the course of gun play. But in the interest of keeping people who will ignore that advice and do it anyway from maiming or hurting someone, I recommend following the Canadian “ACTS & PROVE” acronyms to ensure a firearm issafe. ACTS means you should:

Assume every firearm is loaded.
Control the muzzle direction at all times.
Trigger finger must be kept off the trigger and out of the trigger guard.
See that the firearm is unloaded - PROVE it safe.
Clearly gun play would preclude you from properly doing ACTS, as part of the play would likely be pointing the firearm at your sub / slave. Again, consider using a replica, there are some very real looking ones out there with the proper weight, sounds, and actions to appear very real.

The only part of ACTS that you can do is the last one See that the firearm is unloaded - PROVE it safe. This means that immediately before play (so that at no point the gun is not in your hand so that a round could not accidentally enter the chamber – I’ve seen it happen) you should:

Point the firearm in the safest available direction
Remove all cartridges
Observe the chamber
Verify the feeding path
Examine the bore
As previous poster have indicated anyone foolish enough to try this with a real gun should also remove the firing pin. Guns like the Heckler and Koch P7 have easily removable firing pins and an addition “squeeze cocker” safety to make them extra safe.

But do yourself a favor don’t use a real gun. My pity comment is it’s hard to find someone submissive enough to do this with you, why on earth would you want to risk losing them? But more seriously if something went wrong your sub may not be around to testify that it was an accident and you were playing. You’ll have ended a human life and pay for it psychologically forever. Not to mention the very real possibility of becoming a prison slave yourself to a very different kind of Dom for the rest of your life (You'd deserve it and worse by the way).

Don’t do it!



ManOfAdventures -> RE: Gun Play (10/15/2007 2:26:14 PM)

To Mods: please delete the link in my post above. It links to a site that could be interpereted as violating CollarMe TOS 4.4(1):
 
quote:

4.4.(1) Sell weapons or promote the use thereof;
 
My intention in the post was quite the opposite as I am sure you can see.



DrightenPagen -> RE: Gun Play (10/16/2007 5:39:15 PM)

Nothing wrong with gun play, but before you go out and buy a real weapon at a pawn shop keep in mind that they are illegal for public scening in most jurisdictions. In addition, they are illegal for such uses in other jurisdictions. 

I am more into the mind fuck aspect and dont own real guns...hahahah go to a magic supply store and they can supply you with a fake one.  And truth be known, most of the subbies who responded most like didnt know the gun and round was completely fake.

Again, nevr bring  a fake or real weapon to a public scene...you could very well arouse police defense which would be fatal, and justifiably so.

sadly.

Carl



ManOfAdventures -> RE: Gun Play (10/16/2007 8:38:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: conquer4love
If you take a semiautomatic .22 or .25, remove the firing pin and jack rounds through the chamber the gun WILL eventually discharge. Though the gun may be disabled a live round never is. Now .22 and .25 round are well known for going off due to the fact that the entire rear of the casing is the primer so even a small jolt can cause the munition to discharge. The reason I took the time to bring this up is because the orig. poster did not say what type of weapon they intended to use.

Now I will have to agree with you on this point: A dummy round can be safe assuming the person does not confuse "dummy round" and "blank". Blanks can still cause injury and death.

When dealing with a situation like this I think people should look at the fact that the weapon is of little danger, The round however can be deadly.


Agreed, never "dry fire" anything that takes a rimfire round. 



ba5tardo -> RE: Gun Play (10/21/2007 6:23:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Do not use a real firearm.  If it can fire...it's dangerous.  It may be obvious, but it should still be said.  Guns are not toys, and they are not for "playing".



So far this is the best advice given.



MistressDoMe -> RE: Gun Play (10/21/2007 11:40:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalState

What's next?  Dynamite play? 

Seriously.



Yes, and after dynamite play, jump off a cliff play.



batshalom -> RE: Gun Play (10/21/2007 11:56:05 AM)

:: FastReply ::

Gun play can be amazing, used as a prop in role play or being used as the focal point of the scene. I agree with MD44 about the firing pin but think any safety advice past that is a little bit trite and unnecessary in a room full of adults.

For taste's sake, make sure the oil is cleaned out of the barrel if you're going to have your mouth on it. Gun oil is nasty, and (as oil does) coats what it comes into contat with and is not water-soluable (meaning it's nearly impossible to spit out, and not only that, spitting can ruin a good scene).



BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Gun Play (10/21/2007 12:06:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

What kind of advice are you looking for?  You can always write to Kimberly Grosset and ask her for some helpful tips.

~stef



Haven't read the whole thread.......... have no desire to engage in gun play, but wanted to say that my Master knows Kimberly Grosset and her family, and was old friends with her boyfriend who was killed during their gunplay.



ManOfAdventures -> RE: Gun Play (10/21/2007 10:24:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel
Haven't read the whole thread.......... have no desire to engage in gun play, but wanted to say that my Master knows Kimberly Grosset and her family, and was old friends with her boyfriend who was killed during their gunplay.


See! It is not a game, do not use a real gun ever! Bad idea. 



batshalom -> RE: Gun Play (10/22/2007 5:19:50 AM)

:: Fast Reply again ::

Aba reminded me that soap is a very good way to remove gun oil from the mouth.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Gun Play (10/22/2007 7:51:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: conquer4love

I am very sorry MrDiscipline44 but I have to disagree with you.

quote:

Oh bullshit!! You are exagerating and you know it. Either that or you don't deal with guns on a real and/or regular basis. I have dealt with guns ranging from a 9mm Berreta upto a 30mm chaingun. They can be made "safe" enough to let a novice handle.


If you take a semiautomatic .22 or .25, remove the firing pin and jack rounds through the chamber the gun WILL eventually discharge. Though the gun may be disabled a live round never is. Now .22 and .25 round are well known for going off due to the fact that the entire rear of the casing is the primer so even a small jolt can cause the munition to discharge. The reason I took the time to bring this up is because the orig. poster did not say what type of weapon they intended to use.

Now I will have to agree with you on this point: A dummy round can be safe assuming the person does not confuse "dummy round" and "blank". Blanks can still cause injury and death.

When dealing with a situation like this I think people should look at the fact that the weapon is of little danger, The round however can be deadly.



Guns are well designed to kill people and nothing is as lethal as the mix of ignorance, arrogance, and firearms.  .25 auto, also known as 6.35 Browning, he being the designer of the cartridge, is a center fire round, not rimfire.

I doubt that there is a group of people on this site who's combined knowledge of firearms approach my own.  That isn't a boast, it is a simple fact. 

I have never heard of a .22 going off simply by being jacked through a gun but the theory is right on and the possibility is way too high for me to fuck around with.

I would NEVER EVER consider doing gun play with a real firearm.  Remember, people only accidentally kill people with "safe" and or "unloaded" firearms. 

To me, guns are useful tools to kill people with and I just can't imagine incorporating them into play.  If someone asked my advice, I would say, play with the real one as part of the opening scene, let them feel the heft or something, bang it on a table to they can hear the weight and hardness and then play with a lightweight plastic gun but even then it would give me the hebe jeebies.

I would also leave any playspace where someone was doing it.  If I wouldn't trust my control over fate, I sure as hell wouldn't trust anyone elses!



SimplyMichael -> RE: Gun Play (10/22/2007 7:54:42 AM)

Another problem with gun play is the instantaneousness and lethality of any mistake. 

Take noose play, say I have a woman in a noose on a chair, if the chair breaks, I have a few moments to cut her down and if I am prepared, I can save  her.  Same goes for knife play, if she sneezes while I have the 12" chefs knife shoved up her cunt, I can rush her to the hospital after stuffing cotton in her cunt and probably save her.

Nobody has yet figured out how to pour brains back into someones skull, if they do I might reconsider my stance.



Guilty1974 -> RE: Gun Play (10/22/2007 10:13:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Take noose play, say I have a woman in a noose on a chair, if the chair breaks, I have a few moments to cut her down and if I am prepared, I can save  her.  Same goes for knife play, if she sneezes while I have the 12" chefs knife shoved up her cunt, I can rush her to the hospital after stuffing cotton in her cunt and probably save her.


But if you suspend someone inverted and the rope breaks or the hard point fails, you don't have that second to catch her before her neck breaks. You really dont't. So, are we gonna stop doing that too?

That said, I'm glad guns are quite illegal here (well, at least getting a license isn't that easy) so hardly anyone considers gun play (and we have a markedly lower crime rate, but that's another discussion). But after 9 pages of discussion I'd still say that well informed people should be free to choose for themselves what risks to take.



farmslave100 -> RE: Gun Play (10/22/2007 10:17:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOfAdventures

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel
Haven't read the whole thread.......... have no desire to engage in gun play, but wanted to say that my Master knows Kimberly Grosset and her family, and was old friends with her boyfriend who was killed during their gunplay.


See! It is not a game, do not use a real gun ever! Bad idea. 


Nope...Never play with latex, rubber, or rope either.  Bondage is deadly and should never be practiced by anyone.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gqHaGfuvljV91tlzVbAt9GmsP6QQD8S77IBG0



celticlord2112 -> RE: Gun Play (10/22/2007 10:33:11 AM)

quote:

But if you suspend someone inverted and the rope breaks or the hard point fails, you don't have that second to catch her before her neck breaks. You really dont't. So, are we gonna stop doing that too?


Yet another straw man argument.

One would never be able to catch a person in such a scenario (and in fact the attempt would likely pose a greater threat than gravity), but one can have sufficient safety precautions to minimize the chance of spinal cord injury should the rope break. 

With guns, there are no safety precautions available if the weapon discharges.



Guilty1974 -> RE: Gun Play (10/22/2007 10:51:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
With guns, there are no safety precautions available if the weapon discharges.


With many suspensions there are no safety precautions available either (not any that eliminate the risk). And it's not just suspensions. There's no safe way to play out a japenese style crucifiction either. When you play japanese style bondage the hard way, there's no precautions against breaking necks and backs, not against permanent nerve injuries, ruining shoulder forever etc. (but these latter are, admittedly, less deadly than a bullet in your head). There simply aren't. Sure, you can try to limit the risks, but I've heard a few suggestions on guns that limit - but not eliminate - the risks as well. Bondage can get you killed, and if you include self-bondage, my guess is the number of fatalities outnumber gunplay multiple times.

Responding with a good old straw man reply only shows you're not willing to listen because you think only your own message counts. Gun play is not the only kind of that can get you killed easily in case of a fuck up. It's a good thing to point those dangers out to people without taking the responsibility for their lifes from them.



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