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RE: Dominance defined. - 7/23/2005 6:16:45 PM

Fawne

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While it may have been hinted here: hasn't anyone mentioned competance? By this I mean success in the ability to be competant, dominant, in charge and in control of his/her own life?
While all are human and have had failures as well as successes: doesn't the ability to have personal control/dominance preclude the ability to dominate another?

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RE: Dominance defined. - 7/23/2005 7:11:24 PM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawne

While it may have been hinted here: hasn't anyone mentioned competance? By this I mean success in the ability to be competant, dominant, in charge and in control of his/her own life?
While all are human and have had failures as well as successes: doesn't the ability to have personal control/dominance preclude the ability to dominate another?

That's a good point Fawne. I can interpret what you call competence in two ways, so here's some more food for thought.

The first is competence in controlling another, competence in using a flogger, tying knots, etc. Being competent in the various practices and play forms. That would be a good example of specific forms of ability to dominant within the context of the lifestyle. The other way I can interpret your description about competence is as self control. I would be tempted to flatly agree with you, but something else I was thinking about today stopped me.

For me personally (personal condition here) dominance does indeed involve self control, restraint, being able to manage my own life, emotions, etc. So for me personally I look for a submissive that responds to and respects that. So far as that goes, personally I agree with you. But, here's what stops me accepting it as general statement about dominance within the lifestyle (which covers a pretty broad spectrum). I've run in to many submissives who are excited by and thrilled by a dominant who freely indulges his whims, uses them whenever and however he might wish, pushes their limits, "breaks" them, someone who has a certain disregard for both social limits and even certain disregard for the submissive. When you stop to think about that, it sounds very much like the description of someone out of control. Someone who is letting that primal beast I mentioned in my previous post run rampant, perhaps to the point of letting the beast control them instead of the other way round. While I don't think that's a necessarily a good idea and its not my personal style, I've learned not to be judgemental about others kinks. If that's what turns them on and all involved are consenting, willing adults... well, to each their own.

Everyone has their own preferences, which is why I don't think simplistic definitions of dominance, sadism, submission, masochism, etc. are ever sufficient if they aren't qualified within the context of the lifestyle... and when dealing with individuals, within the context of that individual.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Dominance defined. - 7/23/2005 7:15:21 PM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawne

While it may have been hinted here: hasn't anyone mentioned competance?

Well that is why I had "effectively exerting authority" which specifically mentions being effective.

quote:

By this I mean success in the ability to be competant, dominant, in charge and in control of his/her own life?

Well the reality is that you don't have to do that in order to be dominant.

In order to be a GOOD dominant, or to be a good dominant in a personal relationship with someone else, then yes you need those things.

BUt that's not "dominance" in itself. One can be dominant in one aspect of life and a complete mess in another.

quote:

While all are human and have had failures as well as successes: doesn't the ability to have personal control/dominance preclude the ability to dominate another?

No. I have absolutely no competence in geography...that doesn't mean I don't know what good geography is or how to tell someone else to get directions or lead the way.

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RE: Dominance defined. - 7/23/2005 7:43:57 PM

lthrbtrfly

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Well imho GentlemanDom on here put it Best i think ~

"Ask the next man you are considering to become your Master this question? "What should be a Master first priority be when it comes to His slave?" If he answers with anything other than “Her well being.” Would you really want to call that man Master? These are the cornerstones that make up the foundation that the relationship is built upon. If any these cornerstones are missing, nothing can be built."

I think this applies to any *M* (Master/Mistress), and any Submissive or Slave.

Just my .50

Respectfully ~ LeatherButterfly

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RE: Dominance defined. - 7/23/2005 8:14:05 PM

Phoenixandnika

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I think each and every person involved within the lifestyle has a difference of what a Dominate is, or what a submissive is, or what a slave is. What is important I think is what you think the traits of a domiante are, not what me or anyone says they should be. I know some very harsh and strict Dominates and some very gentle Dominates is one better than the other, well that would depend on the slave or submissive they are involved with. Not every style of dominace works for every submissive or slave, just as not every style of submission works for ever dominate. When I 1st got invoved in this lifestle my mentor had me write about what I expected from a dominate, then told me. " That is what a dominate is to you." That has since changed in the 10 years I have involved in the lfiestyle. So for me that definition is forever changing as we as people change, as we grow. I urge you to define dominace through your eyes, define your submission through your eyes not anyone elses. However, I do applaud any Dominate that would make you think about how you perceive the role of a Dominate. Communication about views is never a bad thing.

Blessed Be,

nika, Phoenix's deviant slave

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RE: Dominance defined. - 7/23/2005 8:48:16 PM

sabis

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quote:

Padriag wrote: I enjoyed reading your essay quite a bit, I thought it to be a very clear expression of dominance with integrity from a submissives point of view. Something that I found inspirational regarding what it means to be both a dominant and a man was expressed by Rudyard Kipling in his poem If.

Padraig:

Thank you for the Kipling link - I've always enjoyed that one. i'm glad you like the piece. . . i probably wouldn't have had that level of clarity if my entire introduction to Dominance and submission wasn't from someone who truly knew himself and embodied all that I wrote about. I'm a very, very lucky girl. ::beams:: I've actually been considering sitting down and re-writing the essay every 5 years. Seeing how my perspective changes... kind of like revisiting those 500 question "Limit Lists" that float around...

i also enjoyed your views as shared to JuneCleaver. Thank you for sharing them so eloquently and thoughtfully.

~ sabis

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RE: Dominance defined. - 7/23/2005 9:35:14 PM

Padriag

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You're quite welcome Sabis, I'm glad you enjoyed both. Kipling is one of my favorite poets and that poem has been inspiring me since I was 17. I think the idea of re-visiting and re-writing that essay is a great idea and worth doing.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Dominance defined. - 7/24/2005 7:17:55 PM

Rover

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In my opinion, Dominance and submission (as opposed to "Dominant" and "submissive") are relative terms, subject to the personal interpretation and point of view of each individual. It is possible (plausible, probable?) that any single individual may express Dominance to some people, and submission to others (depending upon where each falls along that continuum).

In other words, Dominance (or submission) is whatever YOU decide that it is (for you, personally)... hence the variety and individuality of power exchange relationships.

And, given that Dominance and submission can be specific and limited to the dynamics of a personal relationship, it is possible to make a cogent argument that one is Dominant or submissive only to the other(s) engaged in their conensual power exchange relationship.

Further (and lastly), I do not believe that the two are mutually exclusive (read carefully and closely).

Just food for thought.

John

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RE: Dominance defined. - 7/24/2005 7:50:18 PM

EmeraldSlave2

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Well is the OP asking "What is dominance as it relates to the world of WIITWD?"

Or is the OP asking "What is dominance?" in a very universalized form?

I took it as the latter. I answered the literal question "what is dominance?" without the context of how we use it in a scene, but applicable to any context.

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Post #: 29