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RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/2/2007 5:29:36 PM   
dcnovice


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Thanks, Polite! I appreciate it.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/2/2007 5:32:39 PM   
Politesub53


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My pleasure dcnovice

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/3/2007 6:38:22 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Sure, Thompson, here is what they say about Cocaine.

"People can be addicted to drugs, such as cocaine, that do not produce physical dependence. "  http://www.pdrhealth.com/patient_education/BHG01PS06.shtml

Feel free to provide a quote where they (or anyone)" state that cocaine is not addictive. "   or simply admit you are lying. 




luckydog:
It is rather tedious of you to constantly refer to those with whom you disagree  as liars...you,who claim to be some sort of christian, have even called god a liar...this is hardly a basis for discussion.
The site you have posted is for a consulting company that publishes a wide range of books.
The "leap of faith" you have made here is that you take one publication that Thomson Scientific publishes and ascribed its contents to a different book that that they also publish.
That is a little akin to citing a book on the occult that might be published by the same company that publishes bibles. 
The names are similar enough that someone who lacks certain skills might not notice the difference.
I do hope this clears up your confusion.
thompson

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/3/2007 6:50:20 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Aldumbrado:
You seem to have a facility to misrepresent your source.
Drug schedules are devised by the government.  My reference was to the pharmacopeia.
It is one thing to disagree with someone but to deliberately manipulate facts to disparage someone you do not agree with is ethically questionable.
This is not the first time this has been pointed out to you.
thompson



Putting up an exact quote, is misrepresenting and disparaging?
For a man who alleges to have been a school teacher you seem to have some comprehension issues.  Let me reiterate....Drug schedules are devised by the government, my reference was to the pharmacopeia.  What part of that statement eludes you?

And your insinuation that cocaine has no lethal or addictive properties is ethical?
I made no insinuation...I made a statement that there is no LD 50 for cocaine and that cocaine is not physiologically addictive.  What part of that statement eludes you?  It has nothing to do with ethics but rather the pharmacopeia.

Keep toting that Acme anvil untill you find someone to fall for it, you aren't getting any takers here.
You do seem rather enamored with cartoons.  Perhaps you might ask the publishers of the PDR if they will come up with an "illustrated novel" (funny book) version for you.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/3/2007 8:15:29 AM   
Termyn8or


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I know a crackhead. Normally you can trust him with your life but when he goes on a tooter I wouldn't trust him with a three dollar bill.

White, skilled, makes 35 an hour. Broke. That screams "There should be a law", but I do not agree. You put anything you want into your body, it doesn't bother me. Just don't steal my stuff.

Having been in jail, I noticed quite a few Blacks there. We got to talking. "Y'know why your in here for dealing, because you are on a street yelling 'DIMES DIMES anybody need some dimes ?'" I went on to say, "you're making what three grand a week or somethuing, get a fucking apartment and your own phone, keep it low key, that's how White peole get away with it for so long". The reply ? "Nope, when you are in a house they can get you cornered, on the street you can run".

I met a White guy literally made millions doing something illegal, I mean for like 25 years. My crackhead buddy is White, never got busted, but he keeps it low key. He likes it indoors, and hooks up with a few babes and they all have a real good time. I have also seem crack parties where the only goal was to get more crack. No discussion of issues, no music no games, just them sitting there scraping the the table in vain with a razor blade.

We have the right to the pursuit of happiness and if that includes destroying your life, I have the right not to watch. So I don't hang around.

Now, about Blacks in prison, yes there are more. But the disparity is waning. Even if there are four times as many Blacks in college, what is that number for Whites ? To say is politically incorrect for some reason. And I know the reason, it is the recognition of a problem created by Whites and their ilk. Slavery.

Whites came to this country voluntarily, after taking the education from home, they learned the language and worked. Blacks were brought here against their will, unable to cope with this society. They were the underdog for a long time, but they have come a long way since then.

I must offer up commendation to the Black race as a whole, they have come a long way. In about 200 years they assimilated into a society that it took Whites thousands of years to develop. Years ago many stereotypes were true, but no more. And if Whites remain stagnant and Blacks continue to develop, they will be on top. They are now doctors, academicians (I won't mention lawyers right now) and who knows what else, engineers, everything.

All this in a society that they were thrust into, not even formerly knowing that it existed !

So if there is still a disparity, it is not their fault, maybe some, but in general, if they were left alone in the beginning they would've been fine. Now that they have been assimilated into "western" society, albeit against their will, don't cry when they leave their mark.

Someday we might have a Black President, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does better than the last few at least.

As far as the incarceration rate, I and some of my people were taught how to deal with the legal system. I will admit that I probably still belong in prison for stuff I did 20-30 years ago. While I never hurt anyone who didn't hurt me, or was an imminent threat, many of the incarcerated can truthfully say that as well.

The problem is that we lock up the wrong people. That has been mentioned, and if we locked up the right people the government offices would be quite sparse in occupancy.

When I was in jail years ago, I talked with some Black guys, they had no idea of how a court case works or anything. I sort of became the jailhouse law professor. No, that is when you refuse to sign - if they need you to sign they do not have the authority to do what they are trying to do. Many people lack that basic concept, and it kills them in court.

Another thing, the DUI test refusal form. YOU are about to sign it right ? Well just blot out, with the same pen and hand, the word driver everywhere it appears. Then sign it. There is a legal meaning to doing this, even though you are never going to use it, it demonstrates a knowledge of the law. To avoid a trial, they will offer you a slightly better deal. That is the kind of shit that keeps some people out of jail, and I told them.

So there are many factors to this racial imbalance in the justice system. First and foremost it is education. My lawyer works for me, and we will proceed in the direction I proscribe. We only cop a plea under my conditions, and you file for discovery the first day I hire you.

It seems Black people do not know about their rights in court and alot of other things in these matters. They don't know how to work the system. Sorry for making a generality, but that is my conclusion from personal experience with Black incarcerated males. When they charge you with an offense, their idea is to put you in jail. They pile on the charges so that it looks hopeless, and if you know how to play the game, your fare alot better. Even if you did do it, you can get less time and a lower fine by working the system just right. You can't really win, but you can lose by less.

Just like the taxman, they have been closing loopholes for decades, yet some people still beat them. Why ? Learning. There are still three very powerful methods that work to off the IRS. They hesitate to close those remaining loopholes because they are intended for certain people to use, their buddies.

Knowing shit like this is the key to working the system to operate, let's say, less out of your favor. They are never going to operate in your favor, but there are things you can do.

Many many people just think they can hit the phone book and find a kickass lawyer. That is rare. If I had to do it in a new city, my first question would be "Who do you know in _____city ?" and that answer is very important. Eventually you get to the one you choose and drive down there with your tickets, summons' or whatever. You will usually take the deal and avoid litigation in a criminal case, usually. Always put in a jury demand, always.

It would be a hell of alot harder to railroad me than most others. What's more there is always the last resort, representing myself pro se. I am not licensed by them to defend me, so I can challenge law as well as fact. They don't like it, but they can't really stop it.

But if you do that you better be damn sure that you can sway the jury to acquit, because if not you will get the maximum sentence.

If you use a lawyer, find one who wins your type of case often, not that you want to litigate, but the prosecution will consider this when offering the deal.

It really is a shame the the system works like this, but we simply must adapt.

T

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/3/2007 12:19:57 PM   
Alumbrado


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Is my allegation about being a school teacher something that you can come up with a direct link to? (Unlike a link supporting your claim that the PDR literally says cocaine is not addictive)?


And yes, your imagined feats of intellect and heroism can be treated as flights of cartoon like fantasy, when they are so at odds with the reality...and intellectual honesty.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/3/2007 5:08:54 PM   
luckydog1


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Nope thompson, the PDR is online.  I quoted it to you.  As I said before feel free to post a quote where they or anyone states that Cocaine is not addictive, or admit you were lying.  The time to say you made a mistake is now past. 

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/3/2007 8:17:25 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Is my allegation about being a school teacher something that you can come up with a direct link to?
Are you saying that you have not been a teacher?  I was pretty sure you had mentioned it.  I could be wrong.






< Message edited by thompsonx -- 10/3/2007 8:20:54 PM >

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/4/2007 10:08:49 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Nope thompson, the PDR is online.  I quoted it to you.  As I said before feel free to post a quote where they or anyone states that Cocaine is not addictive, or admit you were lying.  The time to say you made a mistake is now past. 

luckydog:
You are mistaken.  The website you quoted is not the PDR.  The website you quoted and posted is called pdrhealth.com.  It is not the PDR.  It is, as I mentioned in my previous post, by the same company (Thomson scientific) who publishes the PDR.
You obviously do not know what the PDR is or even looks like.  I do not believe it is on line but you could drop by your local library or your doctor will also have a copy he might let you look at.
Just because you do not wish to do any research that involves more than a key stroke to find the answer you automatically assume that you are being lied to.  This is hardly a mature way to have a discussion.
thompson

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/4/2007 10:20:36 PM   
luckydog1


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The drug information on PDRhealth is written in plain English and based on the FDA-approved drug information found in the PDR. [enter]

Same company, same information.

And for the 5th time, simply quote the PDR (or any source) that "states  cocaine is not addictive"  It would be so simple to prove me wrong here, but you can't because you are lying.  Why you wish to remain looking foolish over this is beyond me, but I am very happy to play.

I do not really care what the book looks like, the color of the cover is not meaningfull in anyway.  the information in it is.  and the information is on-line, from the same publisher.  And that information is that Cocaine is indeed addictive.  The opposite of what you are claiming.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/4/2007 10:28:22 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anguisette1

Toxicology has no responsibility (or need) to categorize sex. What's your point? ...or is there one?

Anguisette:
Physical dependence on a substance is called addiction.
Psychological dependence on a substance is not addiction.  If you want to call it addiction be my guest.  You may also call the sun the moon if you choose.
My point is that sex is psychologically addicting but not addiction in the sense that one goes through physical withdrawal symptoms if you do not get sex.  Cocaine is the same way...it produces a pleasurable sensation that many people enjoy.  If you withdraw cocaine from those people they do not go through physical withdrawal symptoms.
The anti drug folks lacking the proof that cocaine is "addicting" have chosen to add to the vocabulary with the concept of psychological addiction.  It sounds nice but it is just so much intellectual masturbation.  If you enjoy that sort of thing then by all means stroke away, but please do not expect me to engage in your fantasy.
thompson

(in reply to Anguisette1)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/4/2007 10:37:56 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The drug information on PDRhealth is written in plain English and based on the FDA-approved drug information found in the PDR. [enter]

Same company, same information.

And for the 5th time, simply quote the PDR (or any source) that "states  cocaine is not addictive"  It would be so simple to prove me wrong here, but you can't because you are lying.  Why you wish to remain looking foolish over this is beyond me, but I am very happy to play.

I do not really care what the book looks like, the color of the cover is not meaningfull in anyway.  the information in it is.  and the information is on-line, from the same publisher.  And that information is that Cocaine is indeed addictive.  The opposite of what you are claiming.

luckydog:
If the PDR is on line as you allege then would you please give us all a link to it.  The link you provided is still the same one you had before.  I have looked for and cannot find the PDR on line.  Perhaps your superior research skills could bring us a bit of clarity here.
btw: Welcome back to the unmoderated world.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 10/4/2007 10:39:41 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/4/2007 10:51:33 PM   
luckydog1


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Thanks for the re-welcome.

The publisher of the PDR book, and the PDR health Website say it is the same information.  I do not care what the physical book looks like.  I imagine it changes with every new edition.  I care about information, which is on line at the PDR health website.

You however are the one making an extroidanary claim, and need to put up some evidence, for your wild assertion, or come off looking like ...... 

I asume you are looking at a list of addictive properties of prescribed Pharmacueticals, not finding coke on the list, and making the conclusion that they state it is not addicitve, while ignoring the information on non prescribed drugs, where they explicitly state it is addictive, or something like that.  Very sloppy thinking if that is the case.

Or even worse are quoting off a pro drug abuse blog that is saying that the PDR says what you claimed.  Very Very bad thinking if the case.

Provide evidence, or concede and lets get on to a more interesting subject of debate. 

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/5/2007 5:50:52 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Is my allegation about being a school teacher something that you can come up with a direct link to?
Are you saying that you have not been a teacher?  I was pretty sure you had mentioned it.  I could be wrong.






Alumbrado:
I take it from your silence that you have changed your mind, and that you now feel that you have alleged that you were a teacher?
Why then did you get your knickers all bunched up when I said it?
thompson

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/5/2007 8:13:15 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Thanks for the re-welcome.

The publisher of the PDR book, and the PDR health Website say it is the same information.  I do not care what the physical book looks like.  I imagine it changes with every new edition.  I care about information, which is on line at the PDR health website.
This appears to be saying that you cannot find the PDR on line (I could not either) so you want the other site to be the same.  Wishing something so, seldom makes it so.

You however are the one making an extroidanary claim, and need to put up some evidence, for your wild assertion, or come off looking like ...... 
My "claim" is hardly extraordinary.  You have so far been unwilling to go to the library or anyplace away from your keyboard to do research to refute my statement about what is in the PDR.

I asume you are looking at a list of addictive properties of prescribed Pharmacueticals, not finding coke on the list, and making the conclusion that they state it is not addicitve, while ignoring the information on non prescribed drugs, where they explicitly state it is addictive,
Assuming is seldom a productive course in research.

or something like that.
It appears that you are not sure of the question.  That would certainly make finding the answer more difficult.



Very sloppy thinking if that is the case.
That is not the case but rather your assumption of what the case is.

Or even worse are quoting off a pro drug abuse blog that is saying that the PDR says what you claimed.  Very Very bad thinking if the case.
Once again your assumption of what I did and not based in reality.  Perhaps you should simply do as I originally asked you to do ....go read the PDR.

Provide evidence, or concede and lets get on to a more interesting subject of debate. 
I have mentioned before I am interested in discussion and not debate.
You have repeatedly stated unequivocally that you have found the PDR on line but so far have been unable or unwilling to give us a link to it.  I can see where you may have misinterpreted the listing since the titles are similar and both publications are by the same publishing/consulting company.  This is one of the reasons that research is such a tricky task.
You will note that I do not think you are a "liar" because you have made a mistake in interpretation.  Calling people names because we disagree with their conclusions serves no function in the pursuit of knowledge.  If you have indeed found the PDR on line I would like to see a link.  My copy of the PDR is not current.  What changes in the PDR are the new drugs added to the pharmacopeia.  Well known drugs like cocaine and morphine and so forth do not normally change.  So I have no reason to believe that the data in my PDR is not still valid.

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/5/2007 10:51:22 AM   
luckydog1


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Its the same Data from the same source.  Copy the sentance from your book, and give the page number.  Or don't, look like a fool.  It simply makes anyone else who reads this realise you make stuff up, and your words should be considered suspect

LD50 which you kept refering to has nothing to do with addiction but toxicity, and your right they don't have an ld50 number for cocaine.  But that has nothing do with addiciton.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/5/2007 3:03:11 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Is my allegation about being a school teacher something that you can come up with a direct link to?
Are you saying that you have not been a teacher?  I was pretty sure you had mentioned it.  I could be wrong.







Feel free to provide some evidence for that... who knows, you might enjoy it so much that you go on to provide evidence for your other claims, that up until now are supported only by fantastic assertions.

Or keep dwelling in the make-believe land of  PDRs with no page numbers, fictitious quotes, pockets full of broomsticks, and Acme anvils.



(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/5/2007 6:16:46 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Its the same Data from the same source.  Copy the sentance from your book, and give the page number.  Or don't, look like a fool.  It simply makes anyone else who reads this realise you make stuff up, and your words should be considered suspect

LD50 which you kept refering to has nothing to do with addiction but toxicity, and your right they don't have an ld50 number for cocaine.  But that has nothing do with addiciton.

luckydog:
I have told you where to look.  You seem disinclined to put forth the effort to do so.
My statements about LD 50 were quite clear that they pertain to toxicity.  Why do you now want to imply that they were ever otherwise?
thompson

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/5/2007 6:19:13 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Is my allegation about being a school teacher something that you can come up with a direct link to?
Are you saying that you have not been a teacher?  I was pretty sure you had mentioned it.  I could be wrong.







Feel free to provide some evidence for that... who knows, you might enjoy it so much that you go on to provide evidence for your other claims, that up until now are supported only by fantastic assertions.

Or keep dwelling in the make-believe land of  PDRs with no page numbers, fictitious quotes, pockets full of broomsticks, and Acme anvils.




Alumbrado:
I should think it a simple enough question.  If you have been a teacher then tell me and if you have not then say so and I will stand corrected and apologize for misstating your position.

thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 10/5/2007 6:28:10 PM >

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: John Edwards drops a racial bomb - 10/5/2007 6:21:21 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I do not really care what the book looks like, the color of the cover is not meaningfull in anyway.


But what about all the blood, sweat, and tears that go into designing the cover?!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 100
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