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RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 7:31:31 PM

TemptingNviceSub

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To no one in particular:..Sometimes it gets tiresome defending word usage that is common, wether the word be doormat, slave,sadist or what ever..all this PC correctness, gives me quite a headache...It puts to mind politicians where someone is constantly trying to find loop holes in any and all words, to make it fit what a person wants in that particular way ,or that particular moment...to quote a famous personage..."I did not have sex with that woman!"...how long did the public go about trying to define what sex was?..sheesh!@!!!!..Tempting

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Post #: 41

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 7:41:45 PM

RRafe

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I think a lot of people are more sadistic to themselves than to anyone else.

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Post #: 42

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 7:50:09 PM

MadRabbit

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"I dont know what you mean by "glory,' said Alice.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptously. "Of course you don't - 'til I tell you."
"I meant "There's a nice knockdown argument,' Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumtpy said in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I chose it to mean - neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty. "which is to be master - that's all."

-Lewis Caroll, Through the Looking Glass and What Alice Found There.

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Post #: 43

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 7:58:12 PM

sachiaiko

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Joined: 12/3/2004
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:sighs gently:

Sadly, it appears not of you are actually listening. I am not putting down anyone who considers themselves a sexual sadist with willing partners, etc etc etc. I have issue with the WORD. I too, enjoy pain play, but i would never call myself a sadist because i feel it does not adequately do justice to the reality of who i am, and what i enjoy.

To speak directly to the poor woman who actually thinks i'm in need of therapy. Everyone in my life knows who and what i am. I am in no way ashamed of who I am, i love being a dominant, i adore who i am. I dont feel shame, none of this is actually about me. I DO however, work with people on a regular basis who end up needing a lot of help coming to terms with what they desire, and i think should people use words that do not actually MEAN they are mentally ill then there may be less trouble for them, and others like them.

Again. To those of you who are having a very difficult time actually reading what i have now repeatedly said, again, and again, and again: I do not think that Pain play makes you sick. I do not have an issue with pain play. I do not find it reprehensible, i do not find it digusting, i do not have a problem with ANY OF THAT. What i take issue with is using a word to describe something we do, that actually means MENTALLY ILL. I do not consider myself mentally, therefore, I would never USE the word Sadist or Sadism because it does not ACURATELY describe me, and i do not feel that it ACURATELY describes over 90 percent of the D/s community. HENCE BRINGING IT UP HERE where i thought people would be open minded enough not to base their sense of self on a label that quite LITERALLY means they are mentally ill each time they claim they are a sadist. If you dont have trouble with that, FINE, i am simply trying to affect change because i would rather not OUR comunity be lumped in with the afore mentioned TED BUNDY! But if you guys want to continue calling yourselves ill, go right ahead. I will never refer to any of you as sadists.

AGAIN. I DO NOT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH PAIN PLAY. i DO NOT LIKE THE TERM THAT INDICATES YOU ARE MENTALLY ILL EACH TIME YOU USE IT!

Did anyone NOT understand this last post? For those of you who still are missing what the hell i said, I'm done. I'm not insulting you, i dont think your masochistic partners are VICTIMS. NOT EVEN REMOTELY! You did NOT understand teh HEART of what the HELL i was talking about.

And to think, for years i have been saying the D/s comunity is more open minded, less label addicted, and far more accepting of one another. For christ sake, you people proved my wrong - and now i remember why i choose not to be a part of this ridiculous forum years ago!

Last time. Love who i am. Love pain play. No shame, no guilt, no unhappiness. My whole family knows that i am a dominant and i get into discussions regularly. i TEACH about healthy relationships from all walks of life, i work with people from all over the alternative lifestyle "world" and i have been the sole supporting factor in MANY relationships making it. If you want to call yourself mentally ill, have at it.

I, however, will not do it - so in other words, because i am saying i will not do it, you all think i'm attacking your way of life. when in fact i am saying lets use a different term for it so its not tied IN with sadism, but you all like to use the stupid word, well, maybe you are what the word truly means. If you keep claiming you know what it means, and you clearly are incapable of seeing i am not attacking you even remotely, then maybe you ARE mentally ill. Who knows, who cares? I'll go back to my corner of collarme and avoid close minded idiots from this point on.

Ta ta!

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 44

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:02:44 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sachiaiko

I, however, will not do it - so in other words, because i am saying i will not do it, you all think i'm attacking your way of life. when in fact i am saying lets use a different term for it so its not tied IN with sadism, but you all like to use the stupid word, well, maybe you are what the word truly means. If you keep claiming you know what it means, and you clearly are incapable of seeing i am not attacking you even remotely, then maybe you ARE mentally ill. Who knows, who cares? I'll go back to my corner of collarme and avoid close minded idiots from this point on.

Ta ta!

Nah, we get you. Your just wrong. Dead wrong. Even if you take this down to a level of common definition and not self declared label...

Main Entry: sa·dism

Pronunciation: 'sA-"di-z&m, 'sa-
Function: noun
Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary, from Marquis de Sade
1 : a sexual perversion in which gratification is obtained by the infliction of physical or mental pain on others (as on a love object) -- compare MASOCHISM
2 a : delight in cruelty b : excessive cruelty
- sa·dist

/'sA-dist, 'sa-/ noun
- sa·dis·tic

/s&-'dis-tik also sA- or sa-/ adjective
- sa·dis·ti·cal·ly

/-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 9/28/2007 8:04:06 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:05:41 PM

velvetears

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Joined: 6/19/2006
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TaTa.... don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.... we idiots will do just fine without you shoving down our throat that the term sadism means mental illness - YOU have not heard a thing anyone here has countered to your assumption. i am a killer - i admit it - a heartless, ruthless killer... run for your lives NOW.... if you are a spider... get my point? Doubt you will though.

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Post #: 46

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:09:10 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

Sadly, it appears not of you are actually listening.

I read your words.

I reject your words.

Based on the content of this thread, it seems that a great many reject your words.

Is rejection that upsetting to you?

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Post #: 47

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:11:57 PM

sachiaiko

Posts: 30
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

This isn't open to debate. Why dont you check out what the word "Perversion" means?

truth is, you can sit here and tell me all day long i'm wrong, dont make a lick of difference because you could go to your local shrinks office tomorrow and they'd treat you for sexual perversion, sadism, or masochism or whatever ism you might have. I dont actually have an issue with what the word is used to describe. *I* enjoy it myself, and have no shame in that. I have an issue with using a word that literally gives people the idea that our whole comunity is sick. And i have a problem that our whole comunity is so big about waving the "we dont care what people think about us" flag that they are cool with calling themselves mentally ill.

Too bad, most of these folks i'd say are far more intelligent then they show here. Here, they mainly look like they are holding on to an identity because "Gawd damnit, i JUST came to terms with that identity! :gasp, sob, whine, wail:" Mayhap it's these nice folks who are in such turmoil over what they are. I, am not. I dont believe my joys make me mentally sick. I am a fantastic person, wonderful lover, great Dom, and i love my life.

I also dont define myself by a single word, or serries of words. If i found out that a word i use to describe myself doesnt actually fit who i am, i'd quit using the word, i wouldnt fight to the death because that word is the word i LIKE! :rolls her eyes: Its rediculous. If all of you want to be called mentally ill, Go for it. Its absolutely insane to me. But, i'm done with this insane, and inane, conversation.

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Post #: 48

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:20:15 PM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sachiaiko

truth is, you can sit here and tell me all day long i'm wrong, dont make a lick of difference because you could go to your local shrinks office tomorrow and they'd treat you for sexual perversion, sadism, or masochism or whatever ism you might have.

Sorry to disappoint you chica but i do in fact go to a shrink and guess what, he doesn't consider me sick whatsoever because there is no internal conflict, no guilt, shame, obsession, it doesn't intefere with my daily life in that i am able to function normally in my day to day activities. Only when the person themselves feel conflicted and it presents itself as a problem does then a shrink agree and treat it as a problem. You might want to reference the DSM IV before you talk about something you really know nothing about.

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Post #: 49

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:22:58 PM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sachiaiko

This isn't open to debate. Why dont you check out what the word "Perversion" means?

Actually it is open for debate and you opened it. You just don't like the fact that many people are not agreeing with you. As for perversion that does not equate to mental illness either:

Main Entry: per·ver·sion

Pronunciation: p&r-'v&r-zh&n, -sh&n
Function: noun
1 : the action of perverting : the condition of being perverted
2 : a perverted form; especially : an aberrant sexual practice or interest especially when habitual

Aberant means straying from the normal way. Perversion is just an atypical sexual practice or interest. Nothing about that says mentally ill.

Of course one statement of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Kind of like posting the same opinion over and over again and expecting different results...

Knight's Kyra

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 9/28/2007 8:24:47 PM >

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Post #: 50

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:24:47 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

I also dont define myself by a single word, or serries of words.

Mind if we have a go at defining you? I can think of several words that would fit--singly, or in series.

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Post #: 51

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:25:01 PM

MadRabbit

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Joined: 8/9/2006
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Either the "sexual enjoyment of inflicting phyical or mental pain" is a mental illness or it isnt.

Whether it is or isnt wont be changed by not using a word to define myself.

If I am mentally ill, then I am mentally ill. Not labeling myself as a word that defines me as mentally ill wont change that.

If its not a mental illness, then that part of the definition is flawed or wrong, but the rest is still right.

I DO find sexual pleasure and enjoyment in inflicting pain so therefore by the common defintion presented here, I am a sadist. The problem is that general consensus is that I am mentally ill for being one which is wrong.

That doesnt get changed by cowering away from the word that so adequately describes this part of me.

So...yeah your still wrong.

But clearly this is some insecurity manifesting to the "brilliance" you are presenting here.

Or...maybe I just dont want to change my label because some anonymous Internet person decided to throw a temper tantrum with contradictions, inaccurate and flawed information, and a lack of logic.

(And you take me far too serious. I dont really think I am demented. However, the judge is still out on some people in this thread....)

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Post #: 52

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:28:20 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: sachiaiko

This isn't open to debate. Why dont you check out what the word "Perversion" means?

Actually it is open for debate and you opened it. You just don't like the fact that many people are not agreeing with you. As for perversion that does not equate to mental illness either:

Main Entry: per·ver·sion
Pronunciation: p&r-'v&r-zh&n, -sh&n
Function: noun
1 : the action of perverting : the condition of being perverted
2 : a perverted form; especially : an aberrant sexual practice or interest especially when habitual

Aberant means straying from the normal way. Perversion is just an atypical sexual practice or interest. Nothing about that says mentally ill.

Of course one statement of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Kind of like posting the same opinion over and over again and expecting different results...

Knight's Kyra

Damn it. You beat me to it.

I knew I should have made that post FIRST then made the post belitting her SECOND.

I'll get you next time you wascaly kyraofMists.

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Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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Post #: 53

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:30:31 PM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Damn it. You beat me to it.

I knew I should have made that post FIRST then made the post belitting her SECOND.

I'll get you next time you wascaly kyraofMists.

Silly Wabbit... this trix is for Knight.... unless he decides to share *eg*

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Post #: 54

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:30:34 PM

Stephann

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From: Portland, OR
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quote:

Go for it. Its absolutely insane to me. But, i'm done with this insane, and inane, conversation.

And they were forced to eat Sir Robin's Minstral. And there was much rejoicing.

(Yayyyyyy....)

Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film

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Post #: 55

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:32:59 PM

MissSCD

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It is all about labels. We need to allow folks to decide for themselves how they should act and play in accordance with the laws of this land.
A sadist is not someone who is mentally ill.
I know a couple of true sadists who know how to refrain from hurting someone beyond limits. I also know they enjoy the heck out of inflicting pain.
As a domme, I do not enjoy that. I enjoy the structure and discipline that D/s or M/s can bring.
People who kill others brutally and enjoy it would be considered criminal sadists in my opinion.
As I said at the beginning of the post, one cannot judge another just by what they say on this forum.

Regards, MissSCD

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Post #: 56

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:33:54 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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Hey, you know whats really insane?

Posting arguments against using words because they dont fit the true definitions, but not actually bothering to look up what those true definitions are.

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Post #: 57

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:34:10 PM

laurell3

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Definition of Sexual sadism
Sexual sadism: Individuals with sexual sadism disorder have persistent fantasies in which sexual excitement results from inflicting psychological or physical suffering (including humiliation and terror) on a sexual partner. This disorder is different from minor acts of aggression in normal sexual activity; for example, rough sex. In some cases, sexual sadists are able to find willing partners to participate in the sadistic activities.

At its most extreme, sexual sadism involves illegal activities such as rape, torture, and even murder, in which case the death of the victim produces sexual excitement. It should be noted that while rape may be an expression of sexual sadism, the infliction of suffering is not the motive for most rapists, and the victim's pain generally does not increase the rapist's sexual excitement. Rather, rape involves a combination of sex and gaining power over the victim. These individuals need intensive psychiatric treatment and may be jailed for these activities.

AAAAND another one!

Sadism is a sexual disorder. A sadist is a person who is aroused by the suffering or humiliation of another person. Sadism with a consenting partner is not always illegal. Laws vary depending upon where you live.
Sadism involves causing physical or psychological pain or suffering to another person. As long as it occurs with a consenting partner, sexual sadism is not considered to be a psychological disorder. It is considered a disorder when it causes unhappiness to the person with it, causes problems with work, social setting, or family, or when there is potential danger to another individual. If the other person is not willing, sadism can be a severe and even criminal disorder.
Like some masochists, some sadists require the pain or humiliation in order to function sexually. Others may engage in more typical sexual activities at some times and sadistic activities at other times. Sadists often seek out masochists as sexual partners. The sexual arousal in sadism is directly related to the suffering of the other person.
Some acts involve actual physical violence, including cutting, burning, or beating. Other acts involve domination, such as making the other person crawl or keeping him or her in a cage. Still other acts involve humiliation.
Sexual sadism is much more common in males. Heterosexual masochists usually have difficulty in finding sadistic female partners. However, the incidence in females appears to be on the rise. Most sadists begin having fantasies about these activities in childhood. They usually begin experimenting with partners by early adulthood.
Some people may engage in sadistic acts with consenting partners for many years without ever actually injuring anyone. Other sadists may need to increase the severity over time. These sadists may eventually seriously injure or kill someone. Sexual sadists who attack nonconsenting victims tend to continue until legal authorities catch them.
Sexual sadism involving unwilling victims is extremely difficult to treat. Sexual sadism with consenting partners is treated with psychotherapy from a specialist in the field. Contact the State Board of Mental Health in your state for the name of a specialist.
[/quote]

Sachiaiko I think what you need to understand about posting here is that absolute statements will get you in trouble. Keep in mind who you are talking to here, we are used to others saying we are sick, they aren't us and they don't define us. You come here allegedly as one of us and use their definitions to label us. Honestly, those vanilla definitions are not helpful. Most of us understand what we do is criminal, a mental illness and devoid of any value under general society's standards, who cares? Many here use the boards to discuss when they struggle with these things, not judge ourselves on them.

I think from your responses, you don't mean to offend, I would read quite a few more lines of past posts and look at they type of opinions and responses people give to get an idea of why people are getting riled up, just a suggestion. And hey, welcome to trial by fire on the forums

l

(in reply to sachiaiko)

Post #: 58

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:40:15 PM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

Something to consider - you might want to rethink your position sachiaiko

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders

In 1987 the DSM-III-R was published as a revision of DSM-III, under the direction of Spitzer. Categories were renamed, reorganized, and significant changes in criteria were made. Six new categories were deleted while others were added. Controversial diagnoses such as pre-menstrual dysphoric disorder and Masochistic Personality Disorder were considered and discarded. Altogether, DSM-III-R contained 292 diagnoses and was 567 pages long.

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Post #: 59

RE: About the word "Sadist" - 9/28/2007 8:44:17 PM

DocRudy

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

Stephann, your first post in this thread... yeah, that was awesome. Well played and well said.

-DR

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Post #: 60

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