quote:

ORIGINAL: sachiaiko
A sadist is not simply some one who enjoys inflicting pain. This word is being vbastly misused here in this website – and I am concerned about it.

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A sadist ONLY gleans pleasure when their victims do NOT WANT whatever they are doing to them. Hence, by the very nature of the D/s lifestyle, most people are not sadists. A sadist would choose a submissive with a hard limit on pain, then hurt that slave despite their safe word, limits, etc for the pure satisfaction of hurting some one against their will. Sadists are people who are very dangerous, end up killing people often, and don’t care for their victims at all.

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A dominant enters into a contract with a submissive, they have agreements and safewords and make certain that they hold up their end of the bargain. If you enjoy pain play, giving or receiving, you align yourself with a person who matches you in this desire A Dom who likes to inflict pain finds a sub who loves to receive pain. This *Can Not* be called “Sadism”

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As a submissive, I would stay far away from anyone claiming to be a sadist. Or, I would ask them what they think the word means. If you wish to be a “Victim” rather then a “Submissive” Then by all means find that person who matches your desire, but don’t tell yourself that you are a submissive when in fact you are a victim.

quote:


This is semantics, however it is important semantics. The fact so many new dominants refer to themselves as sadists without a clear understanding ofwhat that actually entails creates a picture about this community that does not actually fit. Statistically, D/s relationships last a long time, are more honest, and handle their problems more up front because the nature of our relationships requires clear communication for issues of safety etc. This is a GOOD Thing. That is the type of thing which should be pointed to when the “vanilla” people talk about our lifestyle, not the fact a bunch of people are proud of being sadists, and isn’t that disgusting?

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It may seem like a small issue, but It’s not. If we are seen as sadists who love to hurt folks against their will and we’re really one step up from rapists and murderers, then our alternative way of life will never gain acceptance. So despite the semantics, use your words intelligently, clearly, and responsibly. Shy away from words like “Sadism” because they do not accurately depict the truth of most dominant people in this lifestyle. Take the time to clearly discuss what pain play is to you, or any other aspect of this lifestyle. Be responsible in how you communicate and speak, and we will gain positively from that as a community.

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ORIGINAL: GregariousGreta

I'll keep referring to myself as a sadist seeing as the popular understanding of the word is someone who derives sexual pleasure from causing others harm even if it's with their consent.

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ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl

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ORIGINAL: GregariousGreta

I'll keep referring to myself as a sadist seeing as the popular understanding of the word is someone who derives sexual pleasure from causing others harm even if it's with their consent.

my point exactly!!! i am refering to my thread about BDSM, sexual or not? If a sadist derives sexual pleasure from causing others(changing the word to pain instead of harm) and a masochist derives sexual pleasure from receiving the pain, then how can BDSM NOT be sexual?
 
jen

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A sadist would choose a submissive with a hard limit on pain, then hurt that slave despite their safe word, limits, etc for the pure satisfaction of hurting some one against their will.

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ORIGINAL: sachiaiko

This isn't open to debate. Why dont you check out what the word "Perversion" means?

truth is, you can sit here and tell me all day long i'm wrong, dont make a lick of difference because you could go to your local shrinks office tomorrow and they'd treat you for sexual perversion, sadism, or masochism or whatever ism you might have. I dont actually have an issue with what the word is used to describe. *I* enjoy it myself, and have no shame in that. I have an issue with using a word that literally gives people the idea that our whole comunity is sick. And i have a problem that our whole comunity is so big about waving the "we dont care what people think about us" flag that they are cool with calling themselves mentally ill.

Too bad, most of these folks i'd say are far more intelligent then they show here. Here, they mainly look like they are holding on to an identity because "Gawd damnit, i JUST came to terms with that identity! :gasp, sob, whine, wail:" Mayhap it's these nice folks who are in such turmoil over what they are. I, am not. I dont believe my joys make me mentally sick. I am a fantastic person, wonderful lover, great Dom, and i love my life.

I also dont define myself by a single word, or serries of words. If i found out that a word i use to describe myself doesnt actually fit who i am, i'd quit using the word, i wouldnt fight to the death because that word is the word i LIKE! :rolls her eyes: Its rediculous. If all of you want to be called mentally ill, Go for it. Its absolutely insane to me. But, i'm done with this insane, and inane, conversation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sachiaiko

Look folks. I am not saying that there arent definitions of sadism that DOESN'T involve Non-concent. But do you REALLY wanna use a word which often times brings to mind Murderers, rapists, and sociopaths? Hey, if you wanna call yerself a sadist, thats fine by me. I simply am likely to pass you over personally, and i sincerely doubt i am alone in this. Its not a matter of protecting your "identity" as a sexual sadist, for criminies sake. :laughs: Its almost funny, this identity as a sadist is so important, but its an identity WRAPPED in Mental Illness, dangerous people, and often times in extreme cases ends with people DYING.

Are you aware Sexual Sadism is a psychological ILLNESS? They call it a mental disease. Basically, you're sick if you're a sadist. Now, i dont think that what most D/s relationships do is sick, consentual play is a very different thing to me. I would not call myself by a name that indicates i am mentally deranged - but hey, if thats what YOU guys wish to do, by all means. Go ahead. jump on the mental illness bandwagon, hand out popsickles and candy canes Hell, you can give each other name tags which say "Hi, my names James and I'm a Sadist! My shrink says i'm getting better, but i fooled him! HAH!" or how bout a bumber sticker which says, "Curious about sadism!? Ask me a question!"

In other words, i'm not calling YOU sick. I'm saying that why are you calling yourself by a name that INDICATES that you are sick when you arent?! Why do you proudly declare you have a mental illness? In a world where labels have power, why would you choose a label which declares you ILL? Personally, choosing to be seen as "sick" is proof of the illness if you ask me. but again, far be it from me to take away your "IDENTITY" if you rely so heavily on that word to inform people as to who and what you are, then by all means, go ahead. Have at it. :winks.:

Here's a few quotes from medical journals, medical dictionaries and the like. Maybe you guys didn't realize WHY the word Sadism bothers me so much, maybe you still wont realize it after this email, and maybe a couple of you WILL realize why, and actually decide you would rather not be called mentally ill.

So, in closing. Even if one definition of sadism may involve consenting partners, ALL definitions indicate a mental illness, none of which is something a person should likely be proud of. I dont believe the majority of D/s relationships are mentally ill, which is WHY i do not think SADIST or SADISM is a bad descriptive word to describe us.

My 67 cents. Again.


Here's those quotes from a few sites.

Definition of Sexual sadism
Sexual sadism: Individuals with sexual sadism disorder have persistent fantasies in which sexual excitement results from inflicting psychological or physical suffering (including humiliation and terror) on a sexual partner. This disorder is different from minor acts of aggression in normal sexual activity; for example, rough sex. In some cases, sexual sadists are able to find willing partners to participate in the sadistic activities.
 
At its most extreme, sexual sadism involves illegal activities such as rape, torture, and even murder, in which case the death of the victim produces sexual excitement. It should be noted that while rape may be an expression of sexual sadism, the infliction of suffering is not the motive for most rapists, and the victim's pain generally does not increase the rapist's sexual excitement. Rather, rape involves a combination of sex and gaining power over the victim. These individuals need intensive psychiatric treatment and may be jailed for these activities.
 
 
AAAAND another one!
 
Sadism is a sexual disorder. A sadist is a person who is aroused by the suffering or humiliation of another person. Sadism with a consenting partner is not always illegal. Laws vary depending upon where you live.
Sadism involves causing physical or psychological pain or suffering to another person. As long as it occurs with a consenting partner, sexual sadism is not considered to be a psychological disorder. It is considered a disorder when it causes unhappiness to the person with it, causes problems with work, social setting, or family, or when there is potential danger to another individual. If the other person is not willing, sadism can be a severe and even criminal disorder.
Like some masochists, some sadists require the pain or humiliation in order to function sexually. Others may engage in more typical sexual activities at some times and sadistic activities at other times. Sadists often seek out masochists as sexual partners. The sexual arousal in sadism is directly related to the suffering of the other person.
Some acts involve actual physical violence, including cutting, burning, or beating. Other acts involve domination, such as making the other person crawl or keeping him or her in a cage. Still other acts involve humiliation.
Sexual sadism is much more common in males. Heterosexual masochists usually have difficulty in finding sadistic female partners. However, the incidence in females appears to be on the rise. Most sadists begin having fantasies about these activities in childhood. They usually begin experimenting with partners by early adulthood.
Some people may engage in sadistic acts with consenting partners for many years without ever actually injuring anyone. Other sadists may need to increase the severity over time. These sadists may eventually seriously injure or kill someone. Sexual sadists who attack nonconsenting victims tend to continue until legal authorities catch them.
Sexual sadism involving unwilling victims is extremely difficult to treat. Sexual sadism with consenting partners is treated with psychotherapy from a specialist in the field. Contact the State Board of Mental Health in your state for the name of a specialist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sachiaiko

i think proudly waving a flag that says "I'm mentally ILL" is disgustting.

Mistress Sachi

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Nor am I a person who solely does things because the other person enjoys it. Consentual and ethical are what make me different then the three categories presented here. I've done things that the partner wasnt enjoying in the least at face value, but still consented and wanted because the act of enduring the non enjoyable things made her hot. People process pain in different ways and get enjoyment in different ways. There is quite a few people who get no direct enjoyment from the pain itself, but find gratification and pleasure in the sole act of having it inflicted on them.

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: sachiaiko
A sadist is not simply some one who enjoys inflicting pain. This word is being vbastly misused here in this website – and I am concerned about it.

I agree... a sadist is not simply someone who enjoys inflicting pain.  They could be someone that enjoys being in love.  They could be someone that enjoy to better themself.  They could be someone that enjoys having healthy loving relationships.   They could be someone that likes to help others.  They could be someone that enjoys giving pain to a consenting partner.  They could be a person with ethics and morals.  They could be a person of admirable character.

But... sadly... a sadist could also be someone that abuses others.  They might be someone that cares little for the well-being of anyone including themself.  They just might be someone that is mentally disturbed and unhealthy.  They might be someone that can't seem to have a functional relationship.....

Fact is... the term "sadist" is only a narrow aspect of a person.... "simply someone who enjoys inflicting pain"... but there is so much more to a person than this very narrow aspect.

It concerns me that a person see a label and mistakenly thinks the label reflects all of who a person is.

quote:


A sadist ONLY gleans pleasure when their victims do NOT WANT whatever they are doing to them. Hence, by the very nature of the D/s lifestyle, most people are not sadists. A sadist would choose a submissive with a hard limit on pain, then hurt that slave despite their safe word, limits, etc for the pure satisfaction of hurting some one against their will. Sadists are people who are very dangerous, end up killing people often, and don’t care for their victims at all.

mmmmmmmmm no.. a Sadist can glean pleasure in many ways....  I enjoy ice cream.  I find that pleasurable.  I enjoy the touch of a loving woman.  I enjoy hearing the moans of pleasure from a woman as I choose to please her in a manner that is soft and sensational. I also happen to enjoy it when I cause pain.  

It's rather concerning that you take a simple word and try to put a person into a box and disregard all the other aspects of a person.  Your idea of people are Sadists reminds me of the racists point of view when they label a person a certain why just because they are black, jew etc.  It rather sad.... A person maybe black... etc but there is so much more to the person than that... and some people who happen to be black are absolutely wonderful human beings.. and some not so much... We are more than a singular label.

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A dominant enters into a contract with a submissive, they have agreements and safewords and make certain that they hold up their end of the bargain. If you enjoy pain play, giving or receiving, you align yourself with a person who matches you in this desire A Dom who likes to inflict pain finds a sub who loves to receive pain. This *Can Not* be called “Sadism”

mmmmmmm no... Some individuals that are sadist are with individuals that don't enjoy recieving pain.  In fact, my alandra doesn't consider herself a masocist.  She doesn't like pain... she enjoys sensation.... of course.. many look at her and think she is nuts... since what she calls sensation is most other peoples pain... but let me tell you... when I inflict pain on her.. mmmmmm what a beautiful reaction of primal intensity (still rubbing my chin for the punch I took)  yup.. when the pain is inflicted.. she just doesn't like it to much...
your ideas are very limited... and show lack of experience... regardless of the experience you think you have...

quote:


As a submissive, I would stay far away from anyone claiming to be a sadist. Or, I would ask them what they think the word means. If you wish to be a “Victim” rather then a “Submissive” Then by all means find that person who matches your desire, but don’t tell yourself that you are a submissive when in fact you are a victim.

considering you use the label sadist to refer to a whole set of descriptors.. it is understandable that you would stay away from such a person.... but.. I have found most people don't use a simple label to describe others or themselves.    Put a whole set of descriptors into the word "Sadist" is just as wrong as doing it with a word like ummmmm "Woman"  The descriptors might be right for some  "Sadists" or "Women"... but it not going to be so for most.  Thank god for the uniqueness of people.

quote:


This is semantics, however it is important semantics. The fact so many new dominants refer to themselves as sadists without a clear understanding ofwhat that actually entails creates a picture about this community that does not actually fit. Statistically, D/s relationships last a long time, are more honest, and handle their problems more up front because the nature of our relationships requires clear communication for issues of safety etc. This is a GOOD Thing. That is the type of thing which should be pointed to when the “vanilla” people talk about our lifestyle, not the fact a bunch of people are proud of being sadists, and isn’t that disgusting?

no this is not a semantically issue... it is more a question of definitional differences.  Semantics is more a question of using different words for the same defintions... you are using a whole array and envolved definition that is well beyond what most use.  That is your right... but it doesn't make you right.....   Not unlike a person that has a whole characterization for a "Woman"....  But fortunately for women... there are many that look beyond the silly generalities and characterizations.

I find it is ironic that you judge others for not understanding the Defintion that you use.. and agree with another poster who said your opinion is coming off very much as a the one true way is my way.

quote:


It may seem like a small issue, but It’s not. If we are seen as sadists who love to hurt folks against their will and we’re really one step up from rapists and murderers, then our alternative way of life will never gain acceptance. So despite the semantics, use your words intelligently, clearly, and responsibly. Shy away from words like “Sadism” because they do not accurately depict the truth of most dominant people in this lifestyle. Take the time to clearly discuss what pain play is to you, or any other aspect of this lifestyle. Be responsible in how you communicate and speak, and we will gain positively from that as a community.

for you it is not a small issue..... and for me it is not an issue at all.   You seem rather concerned how others see you and that is ok if that is what you want.  But frankly, I am really only concerned about those that are significant to me.  I do listen to the ideas of others... be they significant or not to me... but  their value judgements will only matter if they are significant to me.  It seems to me you care alot of how people look at you.. and as such are overly sensitive to labels that you view as negative characterizations.  my definition of Sadist is not so broad of a characterization of a person that you choose to make it.  I am also much less affected by the concerns of how people see me that are of little significance....  

I agree that speaking clearly is good... but you seem to be wanting people to speak in a manner that reflects the perspective of community that you desire.  Which just might not be how others want it.... your way is not the right way... just another way.  Some may choose it... but I suspect most will go a hundred and one other ways.

well... thanks for crossing my path... but I am going to go this way... hope it works for you as you go that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mydestiny2043
I would like to thank you KoM for your point of view for before reading this(more than once I might add)it's given me new perspective on what in the past has scared me to death quite frankly.It has given me new food for thought and I thank you for that.

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

There is pleasure... but it is not sexual in nature.

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ORIGINAL: sachiaiko

To those of you who are having a very difficult time actually reading what i have now repeatedly said, again, and again, and again... 

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ORIGINAL: sachiaiko
Did anyone NOT understand this last post? For those of you who still are missing what the hell i said, I'm done. I'm not insulting you, i dont think your masochistic partners are VICTIMS. NOT EVEN REMOTELY! You did NOT understand teh HEART of what the HELL i was talking about.

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ORIGINAL: sachiaiko
And to think, for years i have been saying the D/s comunity is more open minded, less label addicted, and far more accepting of one another. For christ sake, you people proved my wrong - and now i remember why i choose not to be a part of this ridiculous forum years ago!

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ORIGINAL: Tigrita

Perhaps if dozens of obviously educated, articulate, and respectable people are having trouble with your arguments, it is not an issue of the dozens of people's intelligence or open-mindedness, but an issue of your original (and successive) post's lack thereof.

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You appear to be one of them my way and thoughts are the one true way types.

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ORIGINAL: sachiaiko
And to think, for years i have been saying the D/s comunity is more open minded, less label addicted, and far more accepting of one another. For christ sake, you people proved my wrong - and now i remember why i choose not to be a part of this ridiculous forum years ago!