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TiNeedsHouseboy -> RE: Courtship and "pursuit" (7/27/2005 5:38:44 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AAkasha
The bigger question is: Do subs care? If a guy wanted to submit to a woman that he connected with on a variety of levels, wouldn't it be a requirement that he asked some non kinky questions? It makes me wonder if the reason they don't ask the questions is simple -- they don't care, they just want to submit, and what's most important is what she will do and how she does it.
Getting back to Akasha's question, which was what I was about to cross-post to, before finding myself up my ass in morality and ethics alligators!....
Do subs care? Some do. Some don't. Some do, but can't or won't follow through for any number of reasons. We can't complete this picture with broad strokes. We have to examine all the teeny pixels that merge to make the picture. Between all the heads involved in this thread, I'm sure we'll end up painting one heck of a picture!
Naturally, we all have to tolerate the segment of lonely desperado horndogs, who don't ask questions. (Just yesterday, I got a lovely Alt note that read -- in its entirety, "Blo me." Such a sweet talker! I gather he wants to scene by emulating Popeye. ;-p....... I HAD to check him out. Turns out he has four posts on Alt bulletin boards about pussy.) They never get a foot in my cyber door. So, I just shrug my shoulders or roll my eyes and ignore them. (I'd love to see how they interact with vanilla women.)
I'm brushing by this segment of guys: Those who know how to ask questions, play the getting to know you game, but the second they think it's not leading to a woman using them as the object of her Domme-ishness, all communication is terminated. Within this segment lurk guys who claim they want to be friends, but it turns out that it better be friends with benefits or they can't be bothered with you. I've yet to think up a creative, witty adjective for this narcissistic dynamic.
There are two general groups of guys (I can't call them "subs" at this juncture; you need a dominant being to submit to to initiate this type of dyadic interaction -- and they sure as shootin' haven't won me over to get my agreement to dominate them) who I've found irksome and who are blocking their own success to finding a compatible dominant.
The first is the batch who simply don't know how to ask questions. Put a statement in front of them and rather than request clarification, they make jumbo erroneous assumptions, jump down my throat, throw tantrums, insist I couldn't possibly know what my needs are, etc. (My stand on NO chastity regularly precipitates this dilemma.) No matter how many times I tell them to ask before leaping off their self-made cliff of errors, they don't. As a result, I find myself pondering the following: Do they lack the skill to ask questions?.... Or is there an impediment in their emotional well being?... Or is the concept I'm discussing somehow threatening to their self-esteem and/or kinks?
A corollary group would be those who only have a single set of questions: the "what do you look like" contingent. They don't really fit the "submissive" category from what I've seen. It's more like they're trolling for kinky arm candy. I could readily go off on a rant regarding these superficial fools. Because Alt lets us keep tabs on who "visits" our profiles, I regularly see them turning up. For reasons that defy logic, CollarMe refuses to allow me to repost the photo that I used before their server crapped out my initial profile. I use that photo on Alt. Though I'm fully attired, and not in fetish garb (unless you have a thing for a fuzzy Mohair sweater in the dead of winter), it makes a big hit with cleavage wankers.... who return repeatedly for their fix, until they tire of my photo. Who needs someone like that in real-time when seeking a long-term, committed relationship?
The second batch are truly troublesome to me. Guys who regularly have previous experiences, usually with pro-Dommes, rather than relationship-oriented. Imagine my surprise when they claim they trust me so much that they immediately want to start scening, sight unseen -- based on phone calls and IMs. I've had to scold quite a few guys -- especially those seeking bondage -- that you never allow a total stranger to tie you up -- ever! At times, the level of naivety is terrifying.
Certainly, some don't care. For them, it's any port in the storm. Some have difficulty relating to women. Others lack wooing motivation. They try to fly past that by using the promise of a scene as being the start of something enduring. (This is wooing?) The best way to convey what I've experienced in this part of the trolling universe is to provide two examples:
GUY 1: Let me preface this by saying that I am absolutely certain that this guy is single/not in a relationship of any sort. It would be very easy to misconstrue reticence as an attachment to a partner, but it would be a misplaced dynamic. Though he's registered on kinky dating services, as far as I know, he never participates in group discussions.
We communicated regularly via IM and e-mail.... always articulate, not overly chatty. Topics were not limited to kink. He's a self-admitted pain slut -- not exactly the part of the domain where I care to be, despite knowing some handy-dandy favorites that I keep up my sleeves. I found it odd that we should remain limited to cyber contact when we live roughly ten blocks apart.
He gave me a bogus excuse about why he would not be comfortable meeting in a public location: He was afraid he'd be spotted and he didn't want to explain what he was doing with an older woman, since none of his friends know he's submissive. He was 36ish (younger than my desired range, but I made allowances for proximity), while I was 52. Since people who don't know my chronological age regularly mistake me for 20 years younger than I am, I wasn't buying what he was selling. He also had chronic excuses for why he hadn't gotten around to sending his photo.
To try to appease me, he gave me his cel number. He wanted me to hear his voice message, to verify that his name matched. We made arrangements for a conversation, too. That was a shocker event because he was completely unable to carry on a conversation. I'm guessing that he's plagued by some sort of social phobia, relying on the computer to keep it at bay. Some people feel comforted by the anonymity of the phone; others need to remain buried in the anonymity of the web. (The need to fade into this type of obscurity is a topic for a whole other thread.)
I'm astounded by how many guys tell me (from the get-go) that they're very nervous during IM chats. Apparently, there's a pressing need for these guys to get into psychotherapy groups that educate them about how to socialize with women. We're not even up to the wooing issue. We're just up to basic chit-chat.
Getting back to the guy in my neighborhood, here's the corker: Though he did not want to meet publicly, and could not carry on a phone conversation, he said he would be perfectly comfortable meeting me privately. He wanted to join me in my apartment for a scene of my choosing. I'm guessing he's someone who hopes for scenes where "yes, ma'am/no ma'am" are the limit of his verbalizations -- except, of course, for his screams of painful delights. I told him there was no way I was leaping into D/s without a previously established live rapport, and we would not be meeting in my apartment.
As you might guess, we've never met, but he'll answer any e-mail or IM I send. I quit sending those, however. I do not feel it's appropriate to reinforce his need to hide behind his computer. Besides, my time is too valuable to adopt all the lost strays trolling kinky dating services.
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GUY 2: I crossed paths with him a couple of years ago. He decided he'd be perfect for me because he used to be the houseboy at some local dungeon. He had a pro-Domme friend who swapped sessions for his clean-ups after clients' scenes. I assured him that I wasn't exchanging chores for kinky favors. That did not dissuade him. We had several e-mail and IM exchanges. He also phoned, and we had extended talks.
He was in the middle of a bitter divorce, which was a major topic, including me providing tips on how to protect his assets. (While he was on vacation, his wife broke into the residence they previously shared to pilfer financial info for the court battle.) We talked about his business. We talked about his son. We did not talk a whole lot about what he liked to do on the kinky side of the fence. Apparently, he found our chats endearing because of my ability to be witty, engaging, pragmatic, insightful, and chatty.
He seemed nice enough, but we have totally different libidinal needs. He found my relationship with my boyfriend very confusing. He refused to be anywhere in my apartment if I didn't agree to allow him to be here with only me. (Generally speaking, I've lost track of how many different guys have said something in the range of, "You're perfect, but I can't stand the thought of your boyfriend.") He kept backing off and reestablishing contact because of his ambivalence over the boyfriend dilemma. (It would be easier to find a sub if I wanted to cuckold the guy, but I do not. That's a whole other other impasse.)
I was firm that I wouldn't consider a D/s dynamic unless we became friends first. He said between work and his son, he had no time to socialize and cultivate friendships. (Yeah, that'll woo a woman!) He just wanted to come over for his kink fix. He figured I'd buy into it because I'd end up getting my apartment cleaned. (Sigh.)
He was constantly attempting to address me as Mistress. I constantly had to remind him to address me as "Ti" because he was not my sub and I wasn't his Domme. He was constantly trying to talk me into scening. Scening for the sake of scening is abhorrent to me and my needs.
To provide a sense of how far removed he was from needs, here's a snippet from one of our IMs:
Him: so take me once, as your slave, and we see from there <- THAT'S dangling a carrot for me????
Me: I wouldn't feel right.
Him: why not ?
Me: I'll be happy to be your friend.
Him: tie me up once, as my friend; help me release tension in tight bondage -- please
Me: I don't do that kind of bondage.
Him: what kind do you do ?
<INSERT PRIMAL SCREAM HERE!>
Clearly, his view of "submission" was totally unrelated to mine. This fits what Akasha noted about his focus on what gets done to him and how it's done. Still, he refused to take a "subtle no" for an answer. I sent a detailed e-mail, explaining that we had never met -- that he wouldn't know me if I bowled him down with a steamroller. As a result, a D/s dynamic would be completely inappropriate.
He shot back a note which said:
<< You are right. We are total strangers. I am pursuing this wayy too far. I am backing off and wish you the best >>
He told me to never contact him again. That was circa January, 2003. Guess who tried to snag me in the Alt chat area a few weeks ago? His profile there says that he wants to do some sort of intense bondage scene, after which he's forced to clean, including an aspect of impaired movement. This is a bottom / do-me profile, not someone who's submissive.
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I could compile sky high examples of person after person, seeking a kink fix without courting/wooing. Some are due to interpersonal/social impediments. Others are married and seeking a piece of kinky ass on the side. Others have too much on their plates, where they're looking for any female kinkster to indulge their do-me needs. Some string me along, but for reasons that remain a mystery, refuse to meet. There was one guy in particular, where I'm certain we could have been an amazing match. It was extremely disconcerting to realize how much B.S. was being flung at me regarding how much he admired me and wanted to serve me.
Initially, I thought the wooing/courting/relationship dearth was a function of my age range.... that all the "good ones" have been snapped up. It's become apparent that this is a far-and-wide predicament -- age independent. In fact, despite the claim that the sub-to-Domme ratio has subs in droves, with few Dommes, I'm truly wondering if that's the case. If we could somehow invent a "sub finder" gadget, how many guys would get ruled out of the ratio? I suspect we'd find a whole bunch of "impostors" who are:
* bottoms, not subs (favorite example: a guy who said he doesn't have a submissive bone in his body.... who wanted to hire a maid for me.... so I could tie him up while we had sex)
* married or otherwise attached, but NOT in open/poly relationships, causing them to sneak around -- which IMO makes a mess out of any meaningful D/s dynamic, no matter how submissive the guy is
* clueless about BDSM, except as something they watch/read in porn (this is the segment that needs to be educated because we can't be sure how many of them might have actual potential as subs vs. those who are only seeking self-gratification)
* fed up with sexually inhibited women and misinterpret that BDSM = a guaranteed good time in bed (a long story category.... with numerous examples I could pull out of a hat)
I sometimes wonder if we could get a research grant to let us study how to blaze a path to truly motivated, available, prospective submissive men.
~ Ti ~
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