RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (Full Version)

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FullCircle -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (9/30/2007 3:11:22 PM)

My mother always said to me FullCircle Junior don’t try to eat a pair of handcuffs. I never knew why until this very day.




UtopianRanger -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (9/30/2007 4:51:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Indeed. I am thinking murdered by the police also.



That was pretty much my first thought after reading the OP.

I'll tell ya what....I used to fly five, six, seven times a year all over the country and into Central America prior to 9-11 - I've traveled--via airlines-- less than three times since. The hassle makes it not worth it anymore

Our country /the world is locked up in this atmosphere of a quasi police-state mentality that is totally unhealthy for mind, body and spirit.

The world needs to be expunged of all aspects of this fascist, societal mindset.....and that doesn't mean electing a democrat back into the oval office.





- R





Petronius -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (9/30/2007 4:59:47 PM)

This sounds to me like another story of a strike that ran "Workers Assault Bayonets of National Guardsmen."




DocRudy -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (9/30/2007 5:41:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Petronius

This sounds to me like another story of a strike that ran "Workers Assault Bayonets of National Guardsmen."


Poor bayonets. I hope they made it through alright.

:P

-DR




thompsonx -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (9/30/2007 10:36:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

Greetings all,

I will play what apears to be devils advocate on here since all assume this woman was in her right mind.

Having been an law enforcement officer simply backing away and letting them settle down does not always work. If they are being disruptive to the point of harming themselves, or others, or causing such a disturbance that they will not remove themselves from it willingly... actions must be taken to remove them from the situation. A normal thinking person will not turn themselves into a pretzel to get out of handcuffs. You have to basicaly dislocate your shoulder to do it. Damn painful. You can do the over the head thing and dislocate the shoulders... or try to do the under and through both legs thing. You have to be thin and very flexible for that. I am betting she was wearing a jacket of some sort that strangled her in her frantic attempts to get out of the handcuffs.

Missing a flight is no reason to go that bat shit. A normal thinking person once in custody will calm the hell down. Aparently she was none to bright. No you do not have the right to fight. If you are taken into to custody, you have the right to sit down, shut up and wait to be seen by a judge to clear everything up. Simply dont make it any harder on yourself by becoming an ass, or a danger to yourself or those around you. It is tradgic she died. Some one some where will be blamed for it since people are never responsible for doing stupid things to themselves. Since she was going that nuts the safest thing for her to be in was cuffs. With out cuffs she could have taken a chair and banged it on the door, herself..or hurt her self in other ways that are much more common. How many people have been stupid enough to strangle themselves with trying to get out of handcuffs? Not a whole hell of a lot.

and leaving a person free to go crazy in a public place "for thier saftey" is simply not possible. Think of the lawsuits, and the public outcry that would happen when one of these crazy idiots grab a kid and hurt them, or a bystander. Or.. hurt themselves.. Why werent the cops there to protect them from themselves? Damned if you do.. damned if you dont.

Simply put Human beings are some of the stupidest irrational creatures on this whole planet. You do your damnest to protect them from themselves and each other and at the end of the day hope like hell it is enough.

Yes there are jerks out there that take the power they are given as officers and use it in awful ways. But if the public were to see < and no watching Cops does not count> on the whole how dreadful most of what they have to deal with is they would feel a lot different about the men and women in uniform who protect them.

I hope this gives folks a fuller or different outlook on what may have happened with this woman.

Gwyn

Gwynvyd:
By law the men and women in uniform are not required to protect anyone except those in custody against their will.  So by doing something he was not required by law to do and failing to do what he was required  by law to do a woman is dead.
thompson




NICouple -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 7:33:35 PM)

there are FAR to many documented cases of someone being jerked around by TSA/HS at security checkpoints and then being arrested when they complained. (just do a google)

this stinks. does not pass the smell test. where is the video? where is the audio? where are all the witnesses that the media love to trot out to tell the tale of what they think they saw happening.

and honest cops? pulease. we have so many problem cops coming here from California it's not funny. one of them has the attitude that if your on the road at 2AM your running drugs and I had one tell me Idaho does not have Concealed Carry. another was finally "retired" after he went on a drunken shooting spree across a state line and was given a quiet ride home to sleep it off.

there are good cops, there are most cops, and there are bad cops. just like everyone else.





Sanity -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 7:42:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NICouple

there are FAR to many documented cases of someone being jerked around by TSA/HS at security checkpoints and then being arrested when they complained. (just do a google)

this stinks. does not pass the smell test. where is the video? where is the audio? where are all the witnesses that the media love to trot out to tell the tale of what they think they saw happening.

and honest cops? pulease. we have so many problem cops coming here from California it's not funny. one of them has the attitude that if your on the road at 2AM your running drugs and I had one tell me Idaho does not have Concealed Carry. another was finally "retired" after he went on a drunken shooting spree across a state line and was given a quiet ride home to sleep it off.

there are good cops, there are most cops, and there are bad cops. just like everyone else.


OF COURSE Idaho has concealed carry... we're the most Conservative state in the Union. Don't tread on us!~




thompsonx -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 7:48:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NICouple

there are FAR to many documented cases of someone being jerked around by TSA/HS at security checkpoints and then being arrested when they complained. (just do a google)

this stinks. does not pass the smell test. where is the video? where is the audio? where are all the witnesses that the media love to trot out to tell the tale of what they think they saw happening.

and honest cops? pulease. we have so many problem cops coming here from California it's not funny. one of them has the attitude that if your on the road at 2AM your running drugs and I had one tell me Idaho does not have Concealed Carry. another was finally "retired" after he went on a drunken shooting spree across a state line and was given a quiet ride home to sleep it off.

there are good cops, there are most cops, and there are bad cops. just like everyone else.



I would suggest that honest cops are as rare as frogs hair.
Do cops give other cops traffic tickets?
Here in California all the cops have special license plate frames for them and their families.  The frame says KMA and then a number to designate which police department.
thompson




MsBearlee -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:06:02 PM)

 

KMA?  What does KMA stand for? 
 
Knights, maybe...almost?
 
I know you'll know,
beverly





Alumbrado -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:08:08 PM)

quote:

I would suggest that honest cops are as rare as frogs hair.


Sounds about right, given the  need to draw from the general population, and the added power dynamic.




thompsonx -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:10:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee



KMA?  What does KMA stand for? 
 
Knights, maybe...almost?
 
I know you'll know,
beverly



MsBearlee:
It is their subtle way of remind us that they are better than us.  It stands for kiss my ass.
thompson




dcnovice -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:22:18 PM)

quote:

By law the men and women in uniform are not required to protect anyone except those in custody against their will. 


Aren't they supposed to protect the rest of us too?




dcnovice -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:25:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

My mother always said to me FullCircle Junior don’t try to eat a pair of handcuffs. I never knew why until this very day.


[sm=biggrin.gif] [sm=biggrin.gif] [sm=biggrin.gif]




Bearlee -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:27:01 PM)

 

So...I'm curious; was there ever a discription of what happend to the woman; how did she choke to death?
 
B




laurell3 -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:39:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee



So...I'm curious; was there ever a discription of what happend to the woman; how did she choke to death?
 
B


The autopsy is pending.  I'd wait for the results of that and more information, seems kind of odd.
l




ChicagoSwitchMal -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:39:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee



So...I'm curious; was there ever a discription of what happend to the woman; how did she choke to death?
 
B


Apprently shackles were in use too which makes a little more sense as to how she could have choked herself.

From http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/02/nyregion/02gotbaum.html?ref=nyregion

Sgt. Andy Hill of the Phoenix police said that Ms. Gotbaum, of Manhattan, was found with a shackle used to connect her handcuffs to a bench stretched across her throat, and said that investigators believed she had become entangled while trying to shift her handcuffs from behind her back to the front.




Alumbrado -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:42:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

By law the men and women in uniform are not required to protect anyone except those in custody against their will. 


Aren't they supposed to protect the rest of us too?


Actually no.. that's been thrashed out in court... there is a duty to care for someone you've restrained, but the 'protect and serve' stuff is a motto, not a legal standard.




laurell3 -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:44:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChicagoSwitchMal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee



So...I'm curious; was there ever a discription of what happend to the woman; how did she choke to death?
 
B


Apprently shackles were in use too which makes a little more sense as to how she could have choked herself.

From http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/02/nyregion/02gotbaum.html?ref=nyregion

Sgt. Andy Hill of the Phoenix police said that Ms. Gotbaum, of Manhattan, was found with a shackle used to connect her handcuffs to a bench stretched across her throat, and said that investigators believed she had become entangled while trying to shift her handcuffs from behind her back to the front.


Thanks for the additional information Mal, according to this article they already have an attorney and the family has some connections, so I'm sure this story won't end soon.
l




Bearlee -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 8:47:17 PM)

 
Ah...  Well, I didn't understand the cuffs were attached to something else.

Thanks




ChicagoSwitchMal -> RE: Woman Chokes Herself To Death On Handcuffs??? (10/1/2007 9:07:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee


Ah...  Well, I didn't understand the cuffs were attached to something else.

Thanks


That detail just came out. Also I hear she was on her way to an alcohol detox center. Delirium Tremens would explain her behavior and how she was able to do this to herself so quickly. Frankly DT's are deadly (untreated 35%) and this may have killed her and the chain near the neck was just a coincidence. She was screaming "I am not a terrorist. I am a sick mom. I need help." Tells me she was DTing something fierce. This is just such a sad story.




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