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RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/1/2007 9:35:08 PM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

god, I so hope they do...............

I absolutely hope they break ranks with Wudy and the Neocons. But at the same time I also hope like hell that the anti-war /peace segment also breaks ranks with the neo-liberal part of the Democratic Party.

That's wishful thinking, by the way

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 21

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/1/2007 9:40:59 PM

cyberdude611

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

According to the article this meeting included some of the head honchos of the Council for National Policy which virtually owns the GOP. WTF is going on? Do these guys think they've so completely lost control that the anti RR wing of the GOP might regain power?

Although honestly what will mean something is if one of their annointed candidates, Huckabee or Thompson, doesn't win South Carolina.

Yes. That is exactly what is happening. The religious right has lost power in the GOP and among GOP voters. The idea that a pro-abortion and pro-gay rights candidate is right now the front runner for the presidential nomination is evidence of that. The religious right doesnt have the pull in the party that they once had. So now those "values voters" are pissed off.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 22

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/1/2007 9:50:27 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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Is this really something for the Left to be celebrating? How many of those centerist votes the Dems can count on would vote R in a heartbeat if the candidate didn't have to kiss Fundamentalist ass on his way to the nomination? If the ghost of Falwell had no influence on the platform at all?

Then, of course, we also have the Democrats dropping the pretense of being anti-war (is someone from Hillary's war-room reading my posts perhaps?). If the protest bundle decides to run their own candidate, we might have ourselves a four way race. That would be fun.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 23

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/1/2007 10:03:09 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

god, I so hope they do...............

I absolutely hope they break ranks with Wudy and the Neocons. But at the same time I also hope like hell that the anti-war /peace segment also breaks ranks with the neo-liberal part of the Democratic Party.

That's wishful thinking, by the way

- R

What`s a neo-liberal ?

And, who might be described as a neo-liberal ?

"Neo-con" was originally a term they embraced and repeated.

Now they run from the term.

I don`t know of anyone, who has called themselves a "neo-liberal".

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 24

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/1/2007 10:05:26 PM

SuzanneKneeling

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Joined: 8/31/2005
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Cyberdude, as one measure for answering that question... if you look at the exit polls from the 2004 presidential election (CNN has an extensive set of data), 35% of Bush's votes came from self-identified "white evangelicals". Granted that was in the wake of being fully stoked by Karl Rove's gay marriage hysteria (and anti-marriage referenda on the ballots in over a dozen states) so they were out in force as the "useful idiots" Karl knew them to be. But they are a huge part of the GOP if and when they are motivated to be.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 25

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/1/2007 10:15:03 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Is this really something for the Left to be celebrating? How many of those centerist votes the Dems can count on would vote R in a heartbeat if the candidate didn't have to kiss Fundamentalist ass on his way to the nomination? If the ghost of Falwell had no influence on the platform at all?

Then, of course, we also have the Democrats dropping the pretense of being anti-war (is someone from Hillary's war-room reading my posts perhaps?). If the protest bundle decides to run their own candidate, we might have ourselves a four way race. That would be fun.

The dems are way to united.And it`s not the war that uniting them.It`s bush and the neo-cons.

Unlike the republican party,the dems aren`t beholden to any one group.There isn`t a segment of the party,that has so much control,that leaving would kill the party.The party is way to big and diverse for that to happen.

You can always dream though.lol

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 26

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/1/2007 11:35:10 PM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

OK .. I need my glasses changed .. I thought I read that they should get behind Rupaul ... LOL

Damn it...this made me spray my monitor with sprite! LMAO

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Mike posts in black font
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(in reply to MissHarlet)

Post #: 27

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/1/2007 11:45:00 PM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

What`s a neo-liberal ?

And, who might be described as a neo-liberal ?

''Neo-liberalism'' is a political-economic concept /philosophy that encompasses a cooperative framework between government and large corporations in the furtherance of a particular ''free-market'' global-economic agenda.{Globalization}

With regard to my Democratic Party context --- I am speaking about those Democratic Party candidates who support widespread economic globalization {and outsourcing} and the privatization /selling-off, of taxpayer owned /funded infrastructure to both US and global international corporations.

If you listen to Hiliary Clinton on any given day, you will hear her use the catch phrase ''Public-Private Partnerships'' - Which essentially means some kind ''scheme'' where our government and corporations get in bed with each other and royally fuck-over all the people.

You've heard of ''seperation between church and state''? I'm speaking to ''seperation between corporations and state''

- R

Edited to add :

Here is fairly good description of neo-liberalism

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/econ101/neoliberalDefined.html

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 10/2/2007 12:22:30 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 28

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 12:43:27 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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The GOP should have thrown them out!
This will help the Republicans.
Now, what would they name that Party?
How about "The Anal-Renentive No Fun Party?"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 29

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 1:33:19 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

The GOP should have thrown them out!
This will help the Republicans.
Now, what would they name that Party?
How about "The Anal-Renentive No Fun Party?"

McCain is out.....the rest of the candidates need to focus in on Wudy's hair lip and the fact that he spends a lot of his time secretly dressed up like Ms. Doubtfire.

Then they need to bring in the NYC fireman and educate the country about his 9-11 transgressions. Yanno -- swiftboat his ass....put a rocket in his pocket.

Then we need to go after Hitler-ree and make sure there's great public awareness that this woman is actually a war monger and proponent /supporter of neo-liberalism, hiding behind a mask.

The whole time we need to hope like hell that that goofy bastard algore doesn't come floatn' in on a cloud of carbon monoxide trying to steal the show.

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 10/2/2007 1:35:40 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 30

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 4:57:52 AM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The dems are way to united.And it`s not the war that uniting them.It`s bush and the neo-cons.

Unlike the republican party,the dems aren`t beholden to any one group.There isn`t a segment of the party,that has so much control,that leaving would kill the party.The party is way to big and diverse for that to happen.

You can always dream though.lol

Dont expect the unity to last though. In 1994 and 2002, the Democratic party unity fell apart. It's a cycle. The GOP is going through an internal process of exiling the extremists and neo-cons to try to purge them from the party. The Democrats are not doing this. So if the Dems win, they will have to deal with these far-left extremists somehow or they will get very angry.

The Democrats right now have those far leftists in their camp. But if Hillary wins and she doesn't end the war, the Democratic party will fall apart by 2010 again. And if by the GOP has their swagger back, the Dems will lose control of congress.

Right now, there is no indication that Hillary wants to end the war.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 31

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 5:28:05 AM

mnottertail

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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Well, here is why god I hope so....

I am unaware of any change that is authored from the center. A radical group must form (even if they are radically conservative). These fundamentalist christian fucktards have big wallets, look what they do for their god all the time. Now, if they can get the oompf behind this (which it looks like they can) we have three nationally viable parties, and if it starts looking good then the dems can split some into southern conservatives and RudyG ultra liberal mouthpieces and so on, and finally when the pendulum is swung with the radicals at some point they all will start settling into their centers and we will have many centers instead of one.

Get off this two(one) party bullshit.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 32

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 11:29:49 AM

luckydog1

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"The dems are way to united.And it`s not the war that uniting them.It`s bush and the neo-cons. "

Of course Bush isn't running again, so if you are correct that unity will fall apart durring your primaries.

Of course your Dem congress voted to expand Bush's wiretapping powers. To me that indicates how the elected representatives(mostly dem) think the people in their districts actually feel, which indicates how they will vote in 08.

If the hard religious right wants to leave, let em. We threw out Buchanon and picked up votes in the center, worked just fine. The election will be very interesting. Clinton won with 38% of the vote in 92.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 33

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 3:08:35 PM

MasterDoc1

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Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

So follow along with me here. WHile the 'christian right" has MANY issues there is only ONE that is "make or break"; an issue that they would be willing to bolt the Republican party over. Here is the lead from the Associated Press on this story:

Some of the nation's most politically influential conservative Christians, alarmed by the prospect of a Republican presidential nominee who supports abortion rights, are considering backing a third-party candidate.

Everything else they might swallow hard and vote Republican on but on ABORTION they would rather do the kamikaze bit and bolt.
As some of you know, just getting ON THE BALLOT is VERY difficult for a third party so they could ONLY hope to be a spoiler with a new start-up (and likely on the ballot in only 30 or so states).
I think in large part, as noted, this "announcement" is intended as a warning to the republicans: nominate Guliani and we bolt.

One other point: didn't anyone notice that CLinton has REFUSED to promise that the US will be out of Iraq even by the END of her hypothetical term (2013!!!).

SO here's the 10% likely answer I proposed before:
The republlicans nominate Rudy Guliani, the Dems Clinton.
The libertarians (who were on the ballot in 49 states last time around with a no name candidate) nominate Ron Paul.
He gets the 10% of the electorate that would rather die than vote for a pro-choice candidate (the people this article is about; Paul would be the only anti-abortion candidate on the ballot) even though other than abortion he is not really one of them. But abortion is THE make or break issue for them!
Then Paul hammers away in the most anti-war states with an ad that goes something like this:

"WHen George Bush proposed a war in Iraq Hillary Clinton voted FOR it. But Ron Paul, with his superior knowledge of foreign policy, saw what we would be getting into and voted against it. Even NOW pro-war Hillary Clinton is unwilling to commit to being out of Iraq 5 YEARS FROM NOW! Ron Paul will get us out NOW. ANd pursue a foreign policy based on defending the United States, not Oil or other corporate interests.
Hillary and endless enourmously costly war or ROn Paul and Peace. THe choice is yours".

Hammer away at "Pro-War Hillary" enough, hammer away at "Pro-Abortion" rudy enough in the churches, explain how Ron Paul can totally eliminate the Income Tax and get the people tired of politics as usual interested and perhaps you have an earth-shattering surprise in November.
I rate this as a 10 to 1 shot.
But the bookies in 1776 had England at 20 to 1!

< Message edited by MasterDoc1 -- 10/2/2007 3:23:53 PM >

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 34

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 3:36:54 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

What? Now she "won't" get us out of Iraq?
What the fuck are the Dems running on then? More illegal aliens and more globalism? More foreign aid?
If it's Romney against Hillary Romney will crush her!
She won't get more than 40% of the vote and outside "Hollywood" and San Francisco and Bezerkly she won't carry California.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to MasterDoc1)

Post #: 35

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 3:53:08 PM

cyberdude611

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Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

What? Now she "won't" get us out of Iraq?
What the fuck are the Dems running on then? More illegal aliens and more globalism? More foreign aid?
If it's Romney against Hillary Romney will crush her!
She won't get more than 40% of the vote and outside "Hollywood" and San Francisco and Bezerkly she won't carry California.

It's a movement to vote against Republicans. It doesn't matter why. This is a very polarized nation as voters are either to the right or to the left. And no matter what the Democrats support, they could be communists even now if they wanted to, they will get the votes and the money because there is so much hatred against Republicans right now.

Look at the fundraising totals... Hillary is bringing double or even triple over what the GOP is getting combined. Like what Gingrich said, Hillary is the biggest political machine in American political history. She's going to break all sorts of fundraising records. And she's going to win.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 36

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 9:50:59 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Cyber, I doubt it. Who's going to vote for her, the Teamsters? Really? lol
And if she were to get in one of the first groups she'd bend over and fuck would be....the far left. "Useful idiots."
Do they really think that someone like Hillary Clinton would care about them?
I mean what do they think, that Hillary Clinton would invite them into the White House for dinner or something?
"Hillary stop fucking us! We voted for you!" lol

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 37

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/2/2007 10:00:30 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

What`s a neo-liberal ?

And, who might be described as a neo-liberal ?

''Neo-liberalism'' is a political-economic concept /philosophy that encompasses a cooperative framework between government and large corporations in the furtherance of a particular ''free-market'' global-economic agenda.{Globalization}

With regard to my Democratic Party context --- I am speaking about those Democratic Party candidates who support widespread economic globalization {and outsourcing} and the privatization /selling-off, of taxpayer owned /funded infrastructure to both US and global international corporations.

If you listen to Hiliary Clinton on any given day, you will hear her use the catch phrase ''Public-Private Partnerships'' - Which essentially means some kind ''scheme'' where our government and corporations get in bed with each other and royally fuck-over all the people.

You've heard of ''seperation between church and state''? I'm speaking to ''seperation between corporations and state''

- R

Edited to add :

Here is fairly good description of neo-liberalism

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/econ101/neoliberalDefined.html

yawn.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 38

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/3/2007 12:51:04 PM

MasterDoc1

Posts: 173
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

I forgot one component of why I rate a 3rd party Ron Paul campaign vs Guliani and Clinton as actually having a chance of winning:
As previously mentioned:
1) 10% of the electorate (the religious right as per this topic) would rather die than vote for a pro-choicer. This would be the first time the Republicans have run one for President.
2) Hillary's pro-war stance would make her vulnerable to ROn Paul's attacks as I noted above.

A 3rd significant reason: In order to win over Obama Hillary will likely have to get down and dirty. If he is not on her ticket as VP many African-AMerican's would feel VERY aggrieved by her badmouthing him (the whole black man waiting on white lady thing).
Under normal circumstances they would feel forced to take whatever crap the dems dished out.
HOWEVER, a likely vice-presidential candidate for Ron Paul would be distinguished African American economist Walter E WIlliams.
How many African-AMerican voters, miffed at Hillary for doing whatever it took to keep Obama down would think it's time to demonstrate, when they see a black man standing next to Ron Paul as his running mate, that the Democratic party does NOT own their votes?
20%? 30% More?
ANd no more Income Tax and replace it would NOTHING wouldn't help either!

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 39

RE: Christian right considers backing a 3rd party candi... - 10/3/2007 1:18:56 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

That's some funny shit. Ron Paul will never be the legal resident of the White House. No matter how disgusted with main stream politics people get no way do enough vote libertarian to elect that liar. No matter who his VP candidate is, it won't be Walter Williams, blacks won't vote for him when they find out about him printing racist crap in his newsletter. Want to bet a lot of them know what happens to the poor in the US if he shuts down the Dept of Ag?

Paul will be done with after the South Carolina primaries and he knows it. How else to explain his campaign for his House seat?
http://www.ronpaulforcongress.com/

(in reply to MasterDoc1)

Post #: 40

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