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RE: A recent trend... - 7/27/2005 12:40:18 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		Wow - someone got their panties very firmly wadded up there.

I am one of those people without political affiliation. I have been a registered Independent since I was 21 years old, never having a Democratic or Republican affiliaiton. I love liberals, because they speak on behalf of those who have not, and I love conservatives because they speak on behalf of those who wish to take risks. Each side has half the story in my opinion, so I could never denigrate either side - hence the "Independent" affiliation.

As for car magnets - I don't have them. No yellow ribbons either, nor American Flag pins. I don't choose to wear or display symbols of patriotism.

I do wear one pin however, a small, discrete *US Marine Corps * Honorable Discharge* pin. I did 15 years of service as a US Marine, have an honorable discharge, and pretty much anyone who wants to talk shit about military service and compare peckers can kiss my ass.

I know that PTSD is a serious mental illness that has a much higher incidence among returning vets than the general population - that may be some of what inspired this post in the first place. There may be other issues at stake as well. I am suspect however of taking anecdotal and personal experiecne and drawing wide conclusions from it. For example, both my personal and anecdotal experiences are very different from what the OP is describing. Of the thousands of Marines I have served with over the years, only one, ever, has been diagnosed with PTSD. Does that mean that PTSD occurs one in three thousand? I dunno - that may just be my anecdotal experiece. I've been in 2d Tanks, 8th Tanks, 4th Maintenance, MARBARKS Rep of the Phillipines, 4th Supply, CORTRAMID DET - I've been all around the world and back again, and in every kind of Marine Corps experience except aviation. That doesn't mean I am a comprehensive expert - we queer our own sample, and I am just suspect of making big conclusions based on our own sample.

Oh, and btw? Operation Truth (HOLY FUCK DID YOU EVEN NOTICE THE NAME?????) is a liberal advocay group - it is what it is, and you yanking your panties up until the waistband tears won't change it.

Have a great day.

(in reply to Alexander)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: A recent trend... - 7/27/2005 1:08:04 PM   
MstrHellsFury


Posts: 388
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		I've taken a few days since this was first posted to give it considerate thought...I had to get back to a place I've long since put behind me...Nam...all I can say is when I finally got back to the world..it wasn't just me that had changed but almost everything I thought before leaving..family..friends..even places...I had to decompress and this took some time...I'd always been a leader in some way and I was all about me...so a marriage fell apart...friends stayed away...family looked at me strange...it's hard to put into words but to generalize it for me...I just needed to find myself again...war is hell people and for those who haven't experienced it...try to think what's it like to say..everyday may be the last day...then to say when it's not...why is there going to be a tomorrow...get past that and then say...all your friends were so close to you..now X # of them aren't there anymore...but here you are...a lot of important things diminish from there...


Fury

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: A recent trend... - 7/27/2005 1:51:20 PM   
Alexander


Posts: 159
Joined: 12/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

Wow - someone got their panties very firmly wadded up there.

I am one of those people without political affiliation. I have been a registered Independent since I was 21 years old, never having a Democratic or Republican affiliaiton. I love liberals, because they speak on behalf of those who have not, and I love conservatives because they speak on behalf of those who wish to take risks. Each side has half the story in my opinion, so I could never denigrate either side - hence the "Independent" affiliation.

As for car magnets - I don't have them. No yellow ribbons either, nor American Flag pins. I don't choose to wear or display symbols of patriotism.

I do wear one pin however, a small, discrete *US Marine Corps * Honorable Discharge* pin. I did 15 years of service as a US Marine, have an honorable discharge, and pretty much anyone who wants to talk shit about military service and compare peckers can kiss my ass....

...Oh, and btw? Operation Truth (HOLY FUCK DID YOU EVEN NOTICE THE NAME?????) is a liberal advocay group - it is what it is, and you yanking your panties up until the waistband tears won't change it.

Have a great day.


And am I overly pissed at you? You bet. I've got two over there now, one Air force and one National Gaurd going back after a tour in afghanistan to run a bunch of guys in a unit broken down by out of sync replacements with no unit cohesion who've been in for months and wonder why the F hes going to be running the show just cause he came out of Afghanistan. I'll fucking be pissed about it with good reason. I'm sick of all this "Oh they must be liberal so it doesnt count as much" bullshit and you just perpetuated it. I've had it, and thats the closest I coming to apologising.

I mention an advocacy group for vets and you need to come in to claim it's NOT non partisan like it matters at all. Thats how far the right wing nonsense has gotten in this country. No matter what it is if it doesnt fit the script whoever said it must be biased. The groups been run by independants since it was founded and you gotta come in and say its not? WHY? Its called operation truth because they wanted to make sure everyone knew they weren't pols. Its biggest pol booster is jesse ventura. Take a minute to investigate and then help them get the funding they need.

And lets say your right, Lets say its the leftiest advocacy group of iraq vets there is. (even though the forces are split 70/30 toward repubs.) At least their DOING something to support vets instead of just saying they gave at the office like the rest of the shit bags. Even if they were liberals you sure wouldn't hear the talkers pointing out that the largest and very first Iraq vet advocate group was liberal would you? These people are doing something and because it doesnt fit the "everythings going splendidly" routine people want to paint them as part of the great horrid liberal threat to America? Makes my blood boil that you feel you have to make that accusation. (Who ELSE are they going to go after if the repubs are in control of this? You want them to sit around complaining about how the dems got them into this war or something?).

Im not surprised you think Operation Truth is a liberal name since bullshit seems to be the brand name for the right wing these days. Let's try to remember that none of that shit matters after you lose an arm or a leg and can't get coverage. Thats what being really independant is about.

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: A recent trend... - 7/27/2005 2:18:32 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

PTSD, or simply "Intensity overload" could easily cause someone to lose interest in inflicting pain on another.

Last night on CNN they had a piece about vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with post traumatic stress disorder. The said 1 in 6 have it, and only 40% seek treatment for it. I dunno how they came up with the estimate, but that is a sizable number.

This also makes me think that there are plenty more who may be lower down the scale from meeting the classical symptoms of PTSD, but that doesn't mean they are happy as larks and unaffected by their experiences over there. Maybe they're only "disturbed", but that doesn't help relationships either.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: A recent trend... - 7/27/2005 2:38:13 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

Operation Truth is indeed an advocacy group, but theyare hardly non-partisan. They are a liberal group that is clearly critical of the Republican administration and friendly to the Democratic oposition.

Nothing wrong with that at all - God bless all forms of political communication - but it is by no means non-partisan. They have a policy axe to grind.


I don't see an exclusively liberal agenda in what I have found about Operation Truth so far. Granted, I am somewhat liberal, so my interpretation may be a bit skewed as well. What I have seen is that they have several liberal supporters who contribute banner ads, links, etc to the Operation Truth site as well as several liberal websites that display their support for operation truth.

Could this be an indicator that Operation Truth has a liberal agenda? Sure, but I don't see it within the messages that they are putting out there themselves.

~Thorns


_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: A recent trend... - 7/27/2005 3:55:29 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alexander
I've got two over there now, one Air force and one National Gaurd going back after a tour in afghanistan to run a bunch of guys in a unit broken down by out of sync replacements with no unit cohesion who've been in for months and wonder why the F hes going to be running the show just cause he came out of Afghanistan.


Well, I'm sorry about the incoherent/rambling rage on your part, but I am sincerely grateful for those of your family who serve honorably.

It's a hard service, and anyone who serves honorably in any of the branches has my appreciation.

(in reply to Alexander)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: A recent trend... - 7/27/2005 4:21:07 PM   
subcheryl


Posts: 280
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

The only folks who can really answer this are the ones coming back, but I'll take a guess anyway. I bet that they have had to get into a certain headspace to do their jobs there and they don't want to get anywhere near that again because it would be more painful than fun.


Yes Happypervert I will not arugue with you on that. Many men from the military say to there loved ones to be carefull when getting in the bed with them and perhaps not to do it at all when they are asleep. Certain movement and no sneaking behind you is a big "NO!" I've meet the women who have didn't take these warnings seriously and for those who stayed in the relationship, the never did it again.

So yes, there can be more pan than fun as well as the fact that they wish not to ever have there loved one go through that experience where he acts before thinking due to routine training, paranoia, and automatic reaction.






I know what you are saying here Sir, my older brother was in veitnam the earlier years, and he said often they learned to sleep with one eye open and to act before thinking to some degree, he was one of those if he was sleeping you didn't touch him or anything if you wanted to keep your head where it belonged even many years after the fact, I use to stand by his feet and kick them if he was sitting up, I like my head where it is, but some of the guys never did get over their experience there, and I think he was one of them he is on marriage number 4, alot of issues from there, but than again perhaps they didn't have the counciling offered them that you hear is offered to those that come home from iraq now, but it takes a long time to heal to any degree and oh yes brother developed a sleeping disorder, which leads to depression and depression to disfunction and vicious circles, sometimes all they need is time to heal and others they need extra help but only those who have been there will know it and if they don't reconize it it is up to those closes to them to help them realize they need help and there is nothing wrong with it, hopefully their group higher ups are keeping track of them and know what is happening in their heads.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: A recent trend... - 7/27/2005 9:49:24 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzK

I have a feeling it could be quite possible that the whole concept of BDSM may have changed for this man after witnessing the atrocities of war, the REAL pain and suffering. It may take him a long time to return to how things were and he may never return. Sometimes our experiences change us for life.


Your point is both valid and probably accurate. I don’t know what it is like there in the Middle East, I do know what five years in Vietnam was like and the jungles of South America as well as other parts in Asia as a mercenary. I have seen changes in my friends who are vets of some war or another and I watch the changes occur in my own Troopers. I know the changes I went through. Prior to nam, you could have shackles me or placed me in a coffin and I would have gone to sleep or been figuring out how to escape. After nam, I am claustrophobic I have experienced real torture in the form of “hard interrogation”. It does alter perceptions. It has taken me many, many years to get to BDSM and now here I have exorcised my remaining daemons.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MzK)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: A recent trend... - 7/28/2005 6:46:02 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		I'm going to conduct an informal survey on the general subject of re-adjustment and intimacy. All of my close friends are vanilla, but I think it would be interesting to hear their responses.

We haven't discussed re-adjustment isues really - more focused on tactical, operation and strategic comentary and second guessing, leadership issues - no one has chosen to bring up anything like "I've something change in who I am after combat operations)."

The survey will consist of 5 Marine Officers and 1 US Army officer (we were college roomies so I cut him so slack despite his USA affiliation):

1 LAR Maj
1 Infantry Captain
1 Field Artillery Maj
1 Tank Lt Col
1 Tank CWO-3
1 SOC Lt Col, USA

I will publish results.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: A recent trend... - 7/28/2005 7:24:34 AM   
MLapis


Posts: 19
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline 		What an interesting topic. It never occurred to me about returning vets and their possible D/s lifestyle. I would almost agree that possibly the structure of taking orders and basically giving up all control of their life for each others life has to be quite a mind change for them. Whether an officer or a foot soldier. They are taught to act first and think last- or it could be their last thought. Then to return to being the one to control everything. I can only imagine how over powering that can become. The rage inside may come out in a scene and they won't be able to control it....this can be very frightening to a Dom/me to think it may be possible they actually could harm their loved one. Yet, they know their needs are not met so they release them out of love perhaps to find what they need. I think most of us would release our lovers if we knew we could not give them what they needed. Perhaps a D/s support group would help...maybe a mentor could work with the returning Dom/me or...maybe they need to switch to a submissive lifestyle to receive release. Like to be reborn. Perhaps another Dom/me could help the couple relearn each other and be both's Dom/me.
Interesting topic.

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: A recent trend... - 7/28/2005 8:09:29 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MLapis
They are taught to act first and think last- or it could be their last thought. Then to return to being the one to control everything. I can only imagine how over powering that can become. The rage inside may come out in a scene and they won't be able to control it....this can be very frightening to a Dom/me to think it may be possible they actually could harm their loved one.


1) That's utterly false - we don't learn to act first and think later, but rather to always, always be thinking, thinking - the art of war is to be able to think faster and see more clearly than the enemy. It's called the Boyd Cycle or the OODA loop, but warriors are thinkers first. I know Hollywood after Vietnam portrayed us as wicked, mindless robots, and then after Desert Storm as valorous, mindless robots, but that is just bullshit.

2) Members of the military fluidily transition between leadership roles - just like everyone else in the world does. It may be more pronounced in the military - we have more formality and more ritual in role definition, but we all do it. Dad may well have a follower role at work, and come home to a headship role in the house. Any given Marine is constantly, fluidly leading and being led - the JCS members take orders from the NCA. We don't have rigid life roles of Master and slave - those roles are for many of us solid, but solid in intimacy, not the totality of our lives.

3) How did you get from warfighting to rage? Or in a more limited scope, from trauma to rage? Why would a person who had suffered privation and hardship be rage filled?

(in reply to MLapis)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: A recent trend... - 7/28/2005 4:34:20 PM   
bottominwa


Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		First, I wasn't aware there were a number of us Military Dependent slaves/subs on collarme...i only know of two of us.
Now...on to Your question.

Master is in November to return to Iraq for the third time. He has done one seven month and one eight month tour already and the next is to be 18 months.
Nothing..absolutely NOTHING about Our lives is the same since 9/11.
i feel most often as if i am on some sort of horrific rollercoaster ride. STOP MY LIFE i WANT TO GET OFF!!!!!!
Master suffers from PTSD and a sleep disorder...which if anyone has ever had insomnia...well it tends to make One not just less Dominant...but less human period. He is most often like a walking zombie. Numb..is perhaps the best word.
He has actually become more physically Dominant since this last tour in Iraq...but at the same time the emotional connection is severely lacking.
Personally, this girl just rides the wave....it is so very hard to see the person you love struggle....and in Our lives We never get enough down time in between deployments to "recover" or "regroup" as a dyad.
In many ways We are however much luckier than those in Vietnam etc...because We have a myriad of telecommunications available to Us...They never did. Master can email me nearly daily...and talks to me atleast weekly unless in a dead zone.

i can't really offer advice....but my insight as to the why is simply they are less Dominant for the same reasons They are less present in everything in Their lives...They are deprocessing...and unfortunately many of Them like our house...are home maybe 4 months after 8 months deployed just to redeploy.

On my end i suffer from abandonment anxiety. i do the best i can to combat it with adequate sleep, good nutrition and exercise. But anymore, i personally don't beleive any of us wives going into round 3 of this hell war are coping...we are just barely hanging onto our sanity. And many have already lost theres...hence the suicide rates of spouses skyrocketing. But that is bad PR so the Army plays hush hush.

sabrina King

House of King

Proud Army wife of SGT Johnathan King




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< Message edited by bottominwa -- 7/28/2005 4:41:24 PM >

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 32
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